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location of strobe and elt

cytoxin

cytoxin

Well Known Member
any problems mounting the elt and strobe here. i bought vans mounts but those appear to be installed prior to side skin installation. i dont want to mount them under the floor mostly because i have already installed thefloor panels. i intend to use the brackets from vans just gonna trim and z bend the ends then rivet to the shown panel. MAYBE nut plate? could omit the brackets and just nut plate the strobe but the elt wii require a mount of some sort.
 
WW-
Notice the forward arrow on the ELT. The ELT has to lay on a horizontal surface and be pointed forward from what I understand. Though I (and my tech counselor) could be wrong. Perhaps you could build a shelf for your ELT on the baggage cover? Currently trying to decide on a location myself. Good luck.
 
ELT mounting direction

Please note that ELT must be mounted per the manufactures instructions. Pay particular attention to ARROW on the ELT. The ELT must be mounted with the proper orientation to the direction of flight.

The photos shows the ELT with the arrow pointing up which is not the forward direction.

Mounting the power supply (PS) where you have it shown would require that you remove the cables when you remove the baggage bulkhead for inspection. My recommendation is that you find another location such that you don't have to remove the cables unless you were trouble shooting or replacing the PS.

If you don't want to mount the PS or ELT under the floor there are several other locations that work. Mounting the PS and ELT behind the baggage bulkhead on the floor, center rib, sidewalls works.

My PS is mounted under the baggage floor. My ACK ELT is mounted to the center rib aft of the baggage bulkhead (per the manufactures instructions).


Paul
(RV-4/RV-7A)
 
easy fellas

alpinelakespilot2000 said:
WW-
Notice the forward arrow on the ELT. The ELT has to lay on a horizontal surface and be pointed forward from what I understand. Though I (and my tech counselor) could be wrong. Perhaps you could build a shelf for your ELT on the baggage cover? Currently trying to decide on a location myself. Good luck.
Click to expand...
yes i see the arrow :D the shelf is the plan as refered to the bracket needing to be made


"but the elt wii require a mount of some sort."
 
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neat

DGlaeser said:
Here is where I put my ELT:
http://www.wideopenwest.com/~glaesers/RV7A/Graphics/ELT_Mount.JPG

If you do this, be sure to install the ELT bracket with screws (not rivets) because you want to be able to get your arms in the big holes in the rear shelf to access the elevator mounting bolts (guess how I figured this out :rolleyes: )

I can't help with the strobe mount - I put mine under the baggage floor.
Click to expand...
and you know it will survive there. hmm
 
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wow

well after reading the instructions again i see they are very intent on me mounting it on a bricklike surface. no more than a .1 inch of static local deflection under a 100 lb load. now i see why they go off whenever they want to. guess im still lookin for a spot :confused: and the elt doesnt need to be near the strobe anywho.
 
cytoxin said:
well after reading the instructions again i see they are very intent on me mounting it on a bricklike surface. no more than a .1 inch of static local deflection under a 100 lb load.
Click to expand...
I just installed my ELT on the sidewall aft of the baggage bulkhead, using the mounting bracket Van's sells for this purpose. I was disappointed with how floppy the Van's bracket is, even after it's riveted in place - wherever you put your ELT mount, be sure to make it plenty strong.

mcb
 
How about here?

img_7371.jpg
 
i like it

i've looked at that but was a little concerned about the future installation of an auto pilot servo.. is your finished and do you think there will be room for an ap servo?
 
Yes I have measured carefully so I can add a Trutrak autopilot servo down the road. You can even order the servo mount kit and install it now if you want. Just make sure the ELT is back far enough without hitting the pushrod. Mounting on the keel beam is about as strong as you'll get.
 
Doing it again

Scott Will said:
Yes I have measured carefully so I can add a Trutrak autopilot servo down the road. You can even order the servo mount kit and install it now if you want. Just make sure the ELT is back far enough without hitting the pushrod. Mounting on the keel beam is about as strong as you'll get.
Click to expand...

I have mine mounted like Scott with the Auto Pilot servo on the other side. Doing it again, I'd mount the ELT in the tail or along the top skin behind the baggage bulkhead. The only reason I wouldn't mount it low is for servicing. On the floor it is a beotch to get to. Unless you are smaller or have access to a small person available, it is not fun to get to!!!

The tail is the path of least resistence for ease of mounting and service!!
 
I got this idea from Stein. It seems quite strong and the AK-450 ELT nesltes nicely between the seat back and the flap tube. It also allows instant access in case you mangle the metal and want to remove the ELT to use the portable mode.

If you put it under something (Floor, baggage bulkhead, VS fairing) you might not be able to retrieve it after an accident when the aircraft is bent. The AK-450 comes with an antenna that is attached for protable use and you can hook up a microphone to speak with searchers.



Jekyll
 
OK I admit it... I'm a small person! around 5'5" according to last reports. No problems here. Feel bad for those -8 builders!
 
room for cables

Jekyll said:
I got this idea from Stein. It seems quite strong and the AK-450 ELT nesltes nicely between the seat back and the flap tube. It also allows instant access in case you mangle the metal and want to remove the ELT to use the portable mode.

If you put it under something (Floor, baggage bulkhead, VS fairing) you might not be able to retrieve it after an accident when the aircraft is bent. The AK-450 comes with an antenna that is attached for protable use and you can hook up a microphone to speak with searchers.



Jekyll
Click to expand...
does this leave room for the cables when the seat is in the aft most slot?
 
Jekyll - that location (directly behind the seat back) was my first choice for mounting the ELT, but I decided not to put it there because: a) it doesn't meet the manufacturer's specification of no more than 10 degrees difference in pitch between the ELT and the long axis of the airplane; b) my seat back would hit the ELT if it was moved to the aftmost position. How did you get around those two gotchas on your airplane?

mcb
 
just a quick thought from a guy that does annuals and 100 hr inspections on a weekly basis (an a&p)...
yes the ELT has to be mounted in the proper direction and according to the manuf. instructions and...

FAR Part 91.207

(b) Each emergency locator transmitter required by paragraph (a) of this section must be attached to the airplane in such a manner that the probability of damage to the transmitter in the event of crash impact is minimized. Fixed and deployable automatic type transmitters must be attached to the airplane as far aft as practicable.


but also keep this in mind for consideration, you got to pull it out every 100 hrs and annual to check it. as far as horizontally, i would have to check on that but I have seen cessnas with them mounted on the vertical wall of the aft baggage compartment, on the floor of the baggage compartment and on a Cirrus, hidden behind the aft baggage compartment wall, just below the BRS (which is completely inexcessable without removing the carpet and two inspection panels, and having very thin, long arms...
just my thoughts.. for what its worth...
 
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mburch said:
Jekyll - that location (directly behind the seat back) was my first choice for mounting the ELT, but I decided not to put it there because: a) it doesn't meet the manufacturer's specification of no more than 10 degrees difference in pitch between the ELT and the long axis of the airplane; b) my seat back would hit the ELT if it was moved to the aftmost position. How did you get around those two gotchas on your airplane?

mcb
Click to expand...
I like Jekyll's location as well, because I want easy access to it in the event I'm marginally incapacitated. Like Matt, I too wondered about the slanting seat pan and the mounting requirements. Last night I went and measured the angle of that part of the seat pan from horizontal (measured at canopy decks) and found the different to be 17.5 degrees +/-. I'm thinking I'll just make up a couple z-brackets with a 17-degree angle built into them so that the ELT can sit flat. The big question, it still seems, is whether there will be clearance with the seatbacks, especially if the ELT is raised a little on my z-bracket platform.
 
I'm using Van's brackets. Installation was a piece of cake. My only concern was adding weight back there when I'm already needing to bring it forward. Oh well ... it'll need to come from something else. Maybe I can put a camera pod on the cowl?? :rolleyes:

-Rick
 
when

rickmellor said:
I'm using Van's brackets. Installation was a piece of cake. My only concern was adding weight back there when I'm already needing to bring it forward. Oh well ... it'll need to come from something else. Maybe I can put a camera pod on the cowl?? :rolleyes:

-Rick
Click to expand...
when did you install these? ive got them but dont see any way to drill or rivet them with the tools at hand.
 
If you don't have room behind the seat back, consider building a bracket to "straddle" the flap tube. And while building the bracket, you can also build in the necessary mounting angle to get it level..
 
Mel said:
If you don't have room behind the seat back, consider building a bracket to "straddle" the flap tube. And while building the bracket, you can also build in the necessary mounting angle to get it level..
Click to expand...
Good idea Mel. I was just thinking the same. The only (minor) disadvantage is that it is then a little more exposed to whatever you put into the baggage compartment. To address this, I've thought about creating a light weight partial cover for the ELT that pops off and on easily. There was an article in RVator within the last two years about someone who built a handy tool/spar oil quart compartment using that unused space behind the seats. He attached it to the floors with hinges. All you have to do is pull the pins to remove the box entirely. Same might work as an ELT cover. Just another thought.
 
cytoxin said:
when did you install these? ive got them but dont see any way to drill or rivet them with the tools at hand.
Click to expand...

I installed them this week. There was a bit of a trick to it:

1) Slot the bracket in between the two J-channels. Slide it aftwards until it sits snugly against both channels. The pre-drilled flange of the bracket should be on the bottom, outside the J-channel. The non-drilled flange should go inside/under the upper J-channel.

2) Use your 90 degree angle drill to match-drill the bottom flange to the lower J-channel.

3) Measure and use the 90 degree angle drill to match-drill through the top J-channel and through the flange of the bracket.

4) Debur, prime, etc.

5) Use the LP4-3 blind rivets to attach the bracket. You need to rivet the bottom flange first, from the inside of the bracket. There isn't room to pull the rivets from under the bracket. Cleco the bracket on at the bottom and pull it out to give room for your rivet puller to fit in there.

I rotated the head of the puller so that it went in vertically. Using it horizontally didn't work.

To get the puller to fit flush against the pop rivet you need to unscrew the fitting on the rivet puller a bit. This allows it to fit inside the J-channel far enough to hold the pop rivet in place while you pull it. If you put the rivet in the puller then unscrew the fitting until you can't turn it anymore it should work fine.

6) With the bottom flange done you can pull the rivets on the top flange without any trouble.

I attached my ELT and strobe power box to them today and they're plenty sturdy. I'm pretty happy with them.

-Rick
 
well

im gonna give the brkts one more attempt.. the drill i have is an avery one and is quite bulky compared to those dental tools i have seen for 400 $.maybe the local A&P has one(surely he'll let me borrow it :rolleyes: ) if i cant get the bracket on there i will try jekyll and mels idea. i have a bending break at work so fabing a new brkt will be simple if i can just remember how to figure bend allowance ;) thanks for the help guy's, on and off. :)
 
thats not like mine.

i must have gotten the low budget one.(looks like harbor freight **** although its averys ) i guess its the standard for the kit. the one you show would do it and the price aint bad either. but i aint spending 145 to shoot 8 rivets.



after looking around a bit i see that mine is a very cheap one..like i didnt know that. :eek: try to borrow one this week. to busy building transmissons at the moment.
 
Share a pic

rickmellor said:
I installed them this week. There was a bit of a trick to it:

1) Slot the bracket in between the two J-channels. Slide it aftwards until it sits snugly against both channels. The pre-drilled flange of the bracket should be on the bottom, outside the J-channel. The non-drilled flange should go inside/under the upper J-channel.

2) Use your 90 degree angle drill to match-drill the bottom flange to the lower J-channel.

3) Measure and use the 90 degree angle drill to match-drill through the top J-channel and through the flange of the bracket.

4) Debur, prime, etc.

5) Use the LP4-3 blind rivets to attach the bracket. You need to rivet the bottom flange first, from the inside of the bracket. There isn't room to pull the rivets from under the bracket. Cleco the bracket on at the bottom and pull it out to give room for your rivet puller to fit in there.

I rotated the head of the puller so that it went in vertically. Using it horizontally didn't work.

To get the puller to fit flush against the pop rivet you need to unscrew the fitting on the rivet puller a bit. This allows it to fit inside the J-channel far enough to hold the pop rivet in place while you pull it. If you put the rivet in the puller then unscrew the fitting until you can't turn it anymore it should work fine.

6) With the bottom flange done you can pull the rivets on the top flange without any trouble.

I attached my ELT and strobe power box to them today and they're plenty sturdy. I'm pretty happy with them.

-Rick
Click to expand...

Can you share a pic of this install?
 
cytoxin said:
i guess its the standard for the kit
Click to expand...

I bought the Avery tool kit last year ... this 90 degree drill kit came with it. Maybe they've changed the contents of the kit between our orders??

LifeofReiley said:
Can you share a pic of this install?
Click to expand...

Sorry but I didn't take pictures of the process. However, here's proof that I did get it to work. :)

ELT_Install.jpg


There seem to be three things to keep in mind with this thing:

  • Make sure your angle drill will fit under the lower J-channel stiffener (my fuse skin got scratched up because the fit was so tight)
  • Pull the lower flange rivets from inside the bracket before you pull the top
  • Unscrew the fitting on the puller part way so that it will reach the pop rivet inside the J-channel. The head of the rivet needs to sit flush with the J-channel
-Rick
 
My solution

After spending a lot of time thinking about ELT location, I have finally settled on a solution that seems to work for me. The thread above, as well as the instruction manual of the ELT really helped clarify my thinking. First of all, a couple premises that helped determine the location (and are just my own opinions):

1. I am a firm believer in the ELT being very accessible in case of pilot incapacitation. Even if, and especially because ELT's have a fabulously pathetic activation rate, I wanted to be able to reach it easily, even if I was hurt.

2. I did not want to put it under the baggage compartment for two reasons: (a) a lot of baggage may have to be moved to access it and all the screws in the floor removed. See point #1 above. (b) Some people have put access doors in their baggage floors, but everything I've heard from Van's (all secondhand, so take it for what it's worth) is that they are not real fired up about chopping up the floors like that.

3. 7/9's tend to be tail heavy. I wanted to keep the weight as far forward as possible.

4. The ELT manufacturer is very adamant that the mount not flex and that it be able to withstand 100# without deflection and 450# without tearing away from it's support. It points out that a lot of ELT's failing have to do with improper mounting (short aside: of course, the manufacture would say this to explain failures). The mount that Van's supplies may provide for the ELT's manufacturer's requirements, but it still seems very flimsy to me, and others have reported less than desirable rudder cable clearance. It also violates one of my basic premises in that the baggage area would have to be kicked in or screws removed. In that location, it also has a more negative effect on c.g.

So this is what I came up with...



It's located such that the seatback, when installed in it's aftmost position, will not touch the ELT or its antenna cord. It also takes into account the 17.5 degree angle of the floor, since the ELT must be placed within 10 degrees of the longitudinal axis of the plane.



However, by placing it at 0-degrees of angle relative to the plane, it had to be pushed back and overhang the flap actuator slightly to avoid the seatback. I made it so that there is 1/4" vertical distance between the bracket and the flap actuator. Since everything is fabricated from .063 stock it would take a LOT of weight to get it to even rub against the actuator. And even if it did rub, it would not cause that much of a problem. Still, I did leave enough of the platform extending out the back so that, if it does become necessary, I can support the platform aft of the flap actuator as well.



The only big downside of this location and arrangement is that I'll have to keep baggage off it. I tend to keep things tied down, so I'm not too concerned, but have been thinking about some other solutions to that problem as well. Anyway, I hope this help others trying to determine where to place theirs. I appreciate the input of everyone else's ideas on this thread.
 
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