Steve Barnes
Well Known Member
I have about 5 hours on my new K&P oil filter. My oil pressure is running about 5 + psi higher than with Tempest/Champion. Anyone else have this happening? Comments welcome.
Steve
Steve
Van's Air Force
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K&P oil filter question
- Thread starter Steve Barnes
- Start date
Planecrazy232
Well Known Member
My oil pressure did not change, but I did notice on cold start-up it takes a second or two longer for oil pressure to show. I have a 90* adapter with the oil filter pointing up and it seems these filters will drain back much easier than standard filters.
Dugaru
Well Known Member
Oil pressure
It occurred to me I actually had engine data -- I just checked my OP on several flights before and after installing the K&P. No change noted.
O-320 with Phillips XC. Was using the Tempest filter previously.
It occurred to me I actually had engine data -- I just checked my OP on several flights before and after installing the K&P. No change noted.
O-320 with Phillips XC. Was using the Tempest filter previously.
pilot28906
Well Known Member
Oil filter nipple orientation
I am installing one of these filters on my IO-360 and am wondering if most are putting the nipple into the engine and screwing the filter on or putting the nipple into the filter first. I was thinking a little red thread locker on one end also. My nipple came out of a Tempest oil filter and one threaded end is shorter than the other. On the Tempest filter the short end was in the filter. Is this how it should be installed?
Thanks
I am installing one of these filters on my IO-360 and am wondering if most are putting the nipple into the engine and screwing the filter on or putting the nipple into the filter first. I was thinking a little red thread locker on one end also. My nipple came out of a Tempest oil filter and one threaded end is shorter than the other. On the Tempest filter the short end was in the filter. Is this how it should be installed?
Thanks
Walt
Well Known Member
The 108 filters have an anti drain back valve, the K&P does not. Just cleaned one today on a 90deg adapter, not a single drop spilled when I removed it contrary to the what happens with a std filter.
Scott Hersha
Well Known Member
I put the nipple on the oil filter with a little red thread locker so it stays put.
You'll have to explain that one. The oil pump is a positive displacement pump; so, the system pressure is controlled by a relief valve. These usually incorporate coil springs whose force changes over its compressed length (as opposite to bevel springs which give a much more linear response). If that force changes, the opposing force (oil pressure) will move. Short summary, a change in system backpressure can easily cause the pressure relief valve to operate at a different position/not regulate at exactly the same pressure point.
Is there a problem? Probably not. If the oil system pressure remains in range, I'd monitor it until the next oil change; then, give the filter element inspection the proper attention.
The filter is upstream of the regulator, so while it may increase volume due to being freer flowing, it shouldn't change the regulators behavior in a significant way, as the volume change is also not significant. However, if at the lower end of the regulators regulating range, I would expect the user to see an increase in pressure due to the extra flow. Down here the regulator is allowing very little bleed off, so any improvements in flow directly translate to higher pressure. Up higher in the range, the greater volume just translates to greater regulator bypass and a similar ultimate pressure.
I would expect most users of an improved flow filter to see no difference at high RPMs, but will see a small increase in pressure at idle level RPMs, where the bypass is not doing anything and any improvement in pump output or reduced restriction will translate to better OP.
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Always good to hear from Mr. Ruth. His statements are always backed with his reasoning. That said, not sure we're following each other. If you change the system losses, the effects will cascade. Relief valves (especially the one applied here) aren't linear devices. If the valve upstream or relief side conditions change, its characteristic will change. If the OP goes back to his original filter type, I'd expect his oil pressure to follow. Either way, nothing sounds like he has an issue based on his single data point.
Roadjunkie1
Well Known Member
Yes: short end into the filter first......glommed on with some thread lock. NOT on the engine side.....
UnPossible
Well Known Member
I recently installed a Challenger oil filter on my IO-540, I did notice a slight increase in oil pressure. With a Champion filter in cruise I was usually around 75psi, and with the Challenger, I am now around 78psi with similar engine settings.
The Lycoming oil filter bypass spring has a max relief pressure of 3.55#. So any restriction in filtration media above that will just bypass the restriction and continue at the same volume and pressure as was created by the pump. As the oil reaches the relief valve (set at a given pressure) and reacts only when the limit is reached, the upper value stays the same. And it doesn't care what path the oil took to get there.
A filter that has less restriction but filters down to the required microns only provides a greater volume of cleaner filtered oil, and does not increase or decrease the pressure downstream except in low RPM situations because a dirty filter would restrict up to the bypass value. So it does look like you may see 3# increase with the better filter at low rpm's.
K&N air filters are just the opposite. They provide greater volume by reducing the restriction. IOW.... a reduction in filtering dirt from the air.
They actually say that their filters filter better the longer they are in service..... Why would that be.....
A filter that has less restriction but filters down to the required microns only provides a greater volume of cleaner filtered oil, and does not increase or decrease the pressure downstream except in low RPM situations because a dirty filter would restrict up to the bypass value. So it does look like you may see 3# increase with the better filter at low rpm's.
K&N air filters are just the opposite. They provide greater volume by reducing the restriction. IOW.... a reduction in filtering dirt from the air.
They actually say that their filters filter better the longer they are in service..... Why would that be.....
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Due to the fact that the relief valve dumps directly into the sump, what would cause a pressure (condition) change in the sump that would be noticed.
Sounds like somebodies feelings are hurt.
Simplified, the PRV is a force balance device. Anything that affects any three of these balancing forces will change the valve position. They aren’t designed to have a very precise control. In an application like this, first suspect would be internal valve leakage.
These aren’t complex devices but their designed operating range is pretty narrow.
Simplified, the PRV is a force balance device. Anything that affects any three of these balancing forces will change the valve position. They aren’t designed to have a very precise control. In an application like this, first suspect would be internal valve leakage.
These aren’t complex devices but their designed operating range is pretty narrow.
Nope..... Just asking a question. And thank you for your response.
Of the three balancing forces, the least affecting the pressure would be the discharge side of the relief valve because it is sump pressure.
I was just trying to understand why you think it would have any noticeable affect on the valve position.
Walt
Well Known Member
When cleaning these I recommend carb cleaner, on the one I just did for a customer I noticed what looked like lead coating quite a few of the pleats, could only see it with a good light at the right angle. Looked to me that quite a few of the pleats would have had restricted flow.
moosepileit
Well Known Member
Walt, thank you for posting the early adopter servicing feedback! I went with the similar FLO design, slightly smaller filter area,
PC Racing PCS4B Black Stainless Steel Flo Reusable Oil Filter.
These filters were not likely tested with ashless dispersant oil, possibly not in combination with leaded fuel- so we're all testers.
I run about 50/50 Rec90 and 100LL, Phillips Victory, and just installed the filter last oil change for the spring. No pressure change. My buildup would be slower, but now I know to look for it and carb-cleaner it at servicing to surgically clean- and look for passage restrictions.
PC Racing PCS4B Black Stainless Steel Flo Reusable Oil Filter.
These filters were not likely tested with ashless dispersant oil, possibly not in combination with leaded fuel- so we're all testers.
I run about 50/50 Rec90 and 100LL, Phillips Victory, and just installed the filter last oil change for the spring. No pressure change. My buildup would be slower, but now I know to look for it and carb-cleaner it at servicing to surgically clean- and look for passage restrictions.
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Richard Connell
Well Known Member
Small increase
IO-540, W100+
2-3 PSI increase in cruise.
Previously 70-72, now 73-75.
IO-540, W100+
2-3 PSI increase in cruise.
Previously 70-72, now 73-75.
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