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Just weighed my RV-9A Ouch!

kbehrent

kbehrent

Well Known Member
My whale came in at 1155 lbs.:eek: Can't say I was too surprised, but was hoping for lower since I'm still looking at putting a a Classic Aero interior.

I'm curious what others have weighed in.

Here are my specifics:
RV-9A Slider (carbon fiber skirt w/tip-up option)
IO-320-D1EMS with Hartzell C/S (Eagle EMS Electronic ING/FI)
360 lower cowl insetad of 320 for FI clearance issues (bigger snorkel)
PlanePower 60A Alt + SD-8 standby alt
ODY Batt (firewall)
7.6A backup batt for Eagle EMS system (behind baggage bulkhead)
Avionics - See my signature below for list
Gretz heated pitot
Strobes, LED Navs, Original duck work landing lights from Vans w/wig-wag
Interior - painted interior, leather seats, no carpeting or side panels (Yet!)
Crow camlock seat harness
No Paint, some exterior priming

Right Wheel: 423 lbs
Left Wheel: 422 lbs
Nose Wheel: 310 lbs
Total: 1155 lbs

I'm concerned about weight on the nose gear, but I'm probably in the same boat as others who have put in a (I)O-360 with C/S instead of a (I)O-320.

I might consider swapping my Hartzell prop for a Whirlwind C/S.

I can't exceed Aft CG without going way over gross. It's possible to fall outside Fwd CG if I'm full of fuel and weight < 133 lbs. (Not likely for me!)

Sent off my paperwork for my airworthiness certificate. My DAR is standing by for the inspection once the paperwork clears. It's getting close!
 
Kevin-

Sorry to hear you are a bit on the bulky side. Can't wait to hear how your Eagle EMS Flies. I am behind you by a few months. Just finishing up the engine install. Good luck and keep us posted once you get in the air!
 
I'm impressed you got the lateral balance within a pound! Sounds like all that stuff you've got is weighing it down though.

Van def designed these airplanes for the minimalist approach and to be as light as possible. Nothing is free, HP, avionics, etc.
 
That's not too bad...only 80lbs above the reference weight. Perhaps you might consider changing to a composite C/S prop in the future? It could help with overall weight as well as the balance concern.

Congratulations on your progress! :D
 
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Not quite like for like but...

Ok.

We have:-

WAM 120 diesel Engine with MTV 6 constant speed prop.
Full instrument 6 pack and VOR/ Glideslope
Garmin 430
Garmin transponder
AofA
Leather seats.
Strobes
landing lights in both wings
Fully painted in and out.

Weight is 1049lbs
L 394
R 389
N 266

I expect to loose 10 lbs when I do the finished cowl as the current one is experimental and has a lot of filler in it.

She flies great!!
 
339A

Well when 339A was first finished the weights were:

Right = 409 lbs
Left = 407 Lbs
Nose = 247 Lbs
Total = 1063 Lbs

This was complete! Painted, Full Flightline Interior, Wood Prop at the time, basic VFR avionics. The light nose wheel weight is key. It is really hard to get the airplane out of CG limits with these #'s.

I need to reweigh it though. With the panel upgrade and a few other things I'm sure it has gained weight. Heck we all get heavier as we age. :rolleyes:

Regards,
 
"A" sliders are the heaviest combination you can chose, so you started at a deficit.

All the dual stuff is killing you. Backup battery, alternator, and associated wiring all add weight.

Which starter did you go with? Maybe you can change that out. What about your ignition? I was going to suggest P-mags but they won?t work with the ?H? engine. (They save about 1.5 pounds each.) A single Light Speed has to be lighter than a mag.

Then there is that CS prop and fuel injection. You can always change to a Whirl Wind but something tells me you are not going to replace it with a Catto or replace the FI with a carb.
 
Your CG is around 76.5". Fuel arm is about the same as your CG so it does not affect the CG. Van's CG limits are 77.95-84.84. You need to load up baggage compartment in order to move the CG back.

The other concern is the weight on the nose gear. Your empty weight is 310 that is 15 lb less than the limit (325 lb). Again, adding baggage weight will reduce the nose weight. If you keep 80 lb in the baggage compartment your CG and nose weight will be within the limits (assuming that you had oil in the engine when you did W&B). Interior and paint will also move your CG backward and reduce your problem (except reduce your useful load too). Of course, it is a good idea to remove whatever weight you can from the firewall forward.

Nose Weight = "total weight" * ("Main gear arm" - "C.G.")/("Main gear arm" - "Nose gear arm")
 
I'm at the same point in the process, paperwork at the FSDO, waiting on a visit from Mel.

My data:
Nose Gear: 242
L Main: 415
R Main: 415
Total: 1072 (with seats, harnesses, carpets and wheel fairings installed)

This is with a 9A slider (sikaflex), O320 E2A, Catto 3 blade.
Skytec starter, Landoll alternator, PC680 Odyssey battery
10" Skyview, 7" Skyview, both with backup batteries, 2 ADAHRS far aft
430W, DigiTrakII with both servos, SL-40, Dynon transponder, Atex ELT
Aeroled 1600s along with the NS90s and a Suntail.
Classic Aero psuedoleather Aviator seats and carpets, but no side panels
Hooker harnesses.
With out the pants and interior, she weighs 1056.
Unusable fuel is about 6 ounces total.

Maybe a tad heavy, but with 100 lbs baggage, full fuel and two standard pilots it's well below gross.
The nice part is I haven't found a loading combination that gets CG out of limits for normal category.
 
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N941WR said:
"A" sliders are the heaviest combination you can chose, so you started at a deficit.

All the dual stuff is killing you. Backup battery, alternator, and associated wiring all add weight.

Which starter did you go with? Maybe you can change that out. What about your ignition? I was going to suggest P-mags but they won?t work with the ?H? engine. (They save about 1.5 pounds each.) A single Light Speed has to be lighter than a mag.

Then there is that CS prop and fuel injection. You can always change to a Whirl Wind but something tells me you are not going to replace it with a Catto or replace the FI with a carb.
Click to expand...

I already have a lite weight starter, so no savings there. I really don't think there is hugh weight difference between carb & FI by the time you add all the individual components.

I have the Precision Eagle EMS system (electronic ignition & FI). Without the extra 7.6A backup batt, it's a wash when comparing against a silverhawk + 2 mags. If had gone with some other dual electronic ignition, I probably would have gone with dual batteries like everyone else, plus the SD-8.

Both EFISs have their own internal backup batts along with the ADI. This allows me to use the SD-8 to power the Eagle system (1.6A max draw) along with a comm, etc., and get back on the ground.

I could eliminate the 2 1/4 backup airspeed, altimeter, and ADI. :confused:, although that makes me a little uncomfortable for IFR flight. With some of the new stuff coming out, I could possibly replace all three with a small, electronic unit. (with its own batt backup..:D).

I want the redundancy because I'm setup for IFR. The best weight savings for me without giving up capability is changing out the hartzell c/s for a whirlwind c/s. That would definitely help in taking weight off the nose.

Interior is already painted. Once the external paint is done, that will move the CG aft some. I will need to add some carpet to the front to eliminate the vibration/heat that others have complained about on RVs.

Over the years I've seen many RV-A models with full panels, hartzell c/s, and Classic Aero interiors (probably the heaviest interiors out there) that have got to be in the same ball park with weight as mine and they made it to Oshkosh just fine loaded to the gils.

In the end, the weight really isn't affecting me. For what I built this plane to do, it easily accomplishes that and more. In a perfect world, I would have preferred it to be at this weight with paint and interior installed, with less weight on the nose.
 
kbehrent said:
...

In the end, the weight really isn't affecting me. For what I built this plane to do, it easily accomplishes that and more. In a perfect world, I would have preferred it to be at this weight with paint and interior installed, with less weight on the nose.
Click to expand...
Ken, it sounds like you have built the plane you want, which is a good thing.

It will be interesting to hear how much your paint adds. I hope it is on the light side.

Also, with all those backup batteries, you should budget to replace them all every two years, same as your ELT batteries. (That is something I have never heard discussed on this forum. Since I?m VFR only, I will run my Dynon backup battery until it dies.)
 
Here is my initial weight data on my 9A with the following equipment.
Firewall Forward:
IO-340 with forward facing cold air induction, Catto 3-blade prop and hub, 1 Slick mag, 1 Lightspeed Plasma III, 60 A Plane Power alternator, SkyTec starter, Odyssey battery, snorkel with 360 lower cowl, Andair dual fuel flow with electric fuel pump and filter with return fuel lines.
Instruments:
dual GRT 8.4 HX with dual AHRS, GRT standby battery, Garmin 695, TruTrak Digiflight II autopilot, PM3000 intercom, SL40 comm, GTX327, GRT EIS 4000, Vertical Power VP50, 406 mhz ELT. My interior is the Classic Aero Sport interior with full carpet in baggage, seat, floor area, molded side panels.
  • Left Main 425.00
  • Right Main 411.00
  • Nose 249.00
  • Total 1085.00
The above weight was prior to paint. With paint my empty weight came out to 1107 lbs.

It sounds to me your major weight issue is the added weight on the nose gear and to that end, I bet that constant speed prop is the great contributor to your weight issue. There is some additional weight in your instrument panel that is contributing to the heavy state also such as the redundant round gauges and the additional IFR avionics. The truth is that setting up your plane for hard IFR with a constant speed prop is making a big difference.

Because of this I would suggest you not compare your IFR equipped plane to others such as mine that are set up mainly for VFR. If you feel it necessary to equip for IFR such as you have and that is not a compromise option then you need to compare your IFR equipped 9A with other similarly equipped IFR 9A airplanes.
 
RV-9A weight

Wow; that does sound a bit high for a 9A unless you have an Eggie Subie installation. Over the years I have observed that most of them seem to hit the 1150+ point with great regularity...

I am building a 9A w/a mazda 13B rotary so it will be interesting to see (someday) where mine comes in with dual batteries; PSRU, heavy gauge exhaust manifold, etc., etc.

Enjoy flying it! Wish I were at that point!

Doug Lomheim
FWF / Electrical
 
dlomheim said:
Wow; that does sound a bit high for a 9A unless you have an Eggie Subie installation. Over the years I have observed that most of them seem to hit the 1150+ point with great regularity...

Doug Lomheim
FWF / Electrical
Click to expand...

Yes, my weight is high, especially in the nose. I expected to be higher than those with fixed props, especially the composite ones. I know Van's claims 1077, but I believe that was based on their 9A that had the MT C/S prop. I believe they switched to Hartzell C/S a few years later.

Frankly, those with Hartzell C/S, complete Classic Aero interior package, IFR capable panel and external paint coming in slightly +- 1100 lbs have some magic scales. Can I PLEASE barrow them;)

I do think I may re-weigh just to confirm the weight, mainly to double-check that the plane is in level flight attitude. That means canopy closed folks! I used the upper fuselage skin line, but I want to make sure that is accurate enough.
 
Kevin, my RV9A also is IFR. And it ended 2 lbs. less weight than yours.
That included everything:
- plane with fairings, all painted;
- O-320 D1A with all its original stuff and 6 quarters of oil;
- Hartzell C/S;
- B&C 60 amp. alternator;
- Odyssey PC-680 (on firewall);
- SkyView; analogic backup altimeter, VSI and A/S indicator, ADI, GMA340, GNS430W, SL40, GTX328; King ADF, King DME; ELT with batteries;
- 2 GPS antennas, 2 COMM antennas, 1 ELT antenna, 2 blade DME/XPDR antennas, 1 "mouse" ADF antenna, 1 VOR antenna;
- first aid kit; fire extinguisher;
- Classic aero ultra light interior package (Sportsman);
- interior and exterior lighting;
- strobes;
- 3 tie down rings.

I can bring me (65 kg.), an 85 kg. passenger, full fuel and 24 kg. baggage.

Empty weight details:
front wheel: 272
left m. wheel: 441
right m. wheel: 440
total weight: 1153

Problem is not weight. Problem is maintaining a quite aft CG. I am well within Van's CG envelop, even if nose gear max. static weight may exceed Van's bulletin some times. But I feel that it could be better if the airplane was 10 kg. tail heavier on the ground. I guess that a less bent undercarriage could have solved the problem, helping to play around the CG while landing and taking-off.

Having said that, I think I will move the battery just aft of the baggage area. Only concern is where passing the big #2AWG positive wire, since I have all spar passtrough holes full.
 
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RV-9 W&B data point

Thought I'd post this here as this thread seems to have the best set of data points for RV-9As (and now one RV-9)...

Got my weight and balance done today.

right main: 502
left main: 504
tailwheel: 48
Total Weight: 1054 (including 20-lb Saber crush plate)

Total weight includes gear leg fairings and intersections, wheel pants, 8 qts oil, but no paint or fire extinguisher (yet). It also includes a 20-lb crush plate installed to make sure I have full 100-lb baggage capacity. Running the numbers, it appears that the only way I can get out of c.g. is with the most fwd c.g. example/minimum pilot weight (100 lb pilot, no passenger, full fuel, and 0 baggage). In every other configuration I get get full fuel, two 190-lb pilots, and 100 pounds baggage and be within gross and c.g. in all conditions. Not sure I need all 20 lbs on the nose, but it seems to have served its purpose.

Not sure how good 1054 lbs is, especially compared to other tailwheel -9s, but since it's less than Van's sample W&B of 1057, and b/c I have an optional 20 lb crush plate, I think I'm doing OK.

Configuration: Aerosport o-320, mags, Catto 2-blade, D180, backup ASI, ALT, radio, transponder, 2000c GPS. Seats upholstered but no other fabric, cockpit painted, airframe primed throughout
 
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Kevin,
Once you paint your 9A, the weight of the paint job should at least take some weight off the nose wheel. Consider moving your batteries rearward to ease nosewheel weight too.
Charlie
 
Steve,
I doubt that you will have the full 8 qts of oil in the engine for very long. Most Lycoming engines will dump 1 to 1.5 qts of that out the breather very quickly. I find that anything over 6.5 qts ends up on the belly.
JMHO
Bill
 
let's define 'empty' weight....really accurately!

just a thought for Kevin, before moving big heavy stuff from nose to tail.

Sounds like you are going to fly in a lot of weather, year-round. To me that sounds like over some pretty unfriendly NorthWest terrain, so I'll guess you will have a good survival kit, oil, tools, spares, water, tent, clothing, boots, rifle, ELT, tow bar, wheel chocks, gust locks, rope, snowshoes, small backup sled dog :) etc. on board much of the time.
So my suggestion is; put together your real travelling gear, affix it securely to the rear bulkhead or wherever you must, then weigh in.
could affect your plans and W&B significantly, I know it did for me.
with a carb'ed 0-320 and FP sensenich, I am more aware of aft CG.
mine weighs in at 1075 when built, which I think is typical.
( and means it is likely 1100 by now! added a GPS, extra fire extinguisher, stuff in the glove box etc..)
equip't list; basic!
steam gauges, carpet, fabric/foam seat cushions, no other upholstery, paint, slider
 
Just completed the test flight of our 9A on sunday. All was well.
It weighs in at 1159 painted and leather interior and carpet. Also sports a 320 FADEC with dual electrical systems and 2 odessy batteries. Also has a Catto 3 blade prop. No out of cg limits I can calculate.
 
Our 9A came in at 1054 with leather Classic interior, paint and all fairings. With some panel work, we upped that to 1061 (added 430W and removed a couple things.) The big difference is the prop. The Catto three blade saves bunches, and I still can't get out of CG as long as I have 105 pounds in the seats. I do have a carbon fiber canopy which saved about 10 pounds. I'd look long and hard at the prop if I wanted to save weight. I am very happy with the Catto's performance.

Bob
 
BillC said:
Steve,
I doubt that you will have the full 8 qts of oil in the engine for very long. Most Lycoming engines will dump 1 to 1.5 qts of that out the breather very quickly. I find that anything over 6.5 qts ends up on the belly.
JMHO
Bill
Click to expand...
I agree, Bill. I just used 8 b/c that's what Van's calls for in the sample W&B, b/c that's what the engine manual indicated capacity is, and b/c the break in instructions call for full oil to start. Then, once oil consumption stabilizes I'll be able to leave out that which is going to get blown out anyway.
 
Awesome Kent!
I'll be right behind ya, I'm waiting for the paper work too. And doing my weighing this week. It will be interesting to see what I get.
I think I'll be right around the same wait as you but I put my battery in back because I knew there would be a weight issue with my heavier angle valve io-360.

Cheers!
 
whd721 said:
Bob,
What is a carbon fiber canopy?

For a RV9A?

Thanks for any info
Click to expand...

They were available about five years ago. The roll bar is integral in the windshield, and there is no steel frame. It had lots of advantages (cost wasn't one of 'em) but the guy who made them was unreliable. Hence, there were only about four made. One was destroyed in a flip, but it worked as advertised. I do love mine.

Bob
 
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