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Is it possible to slow

S

steve91t

Well Known Member
The elevator is very sensitive on the RV7 is very sensitive. Seems like if the rate were slowed down just a little, it would make take off and landing in gusty conditions a little easier. I know when I'm landing, the stick can't move more than what feels like an inch for the flare. It's nearly pressure sensitive.

This is a very well built 7. I was just wondering, when being built or rigged, if the builder has an option for different throws/rates.

If there is, what's involved to change it? This RV7 is full IFR and used for x-country and normal flying. No aerobatics.

Thanks,
Steve
 
steve91t said:
The elevator is very sensitive on the RV7 is very sensitive. Seems like if the rate were slowed down just a little, it would make take off and landing in gusty conditions a little easier. I know when I'm landing, the stick can't move more than what feels like an inch for the flare. It's nearly pressure sensitive.

This is a very well built 7. I was just wondering, when being built or rigged, if the builder has an option for different throws/rates.

If there is, what's involved to change it? This RV7 is full IFR and used for x-country and normal flying. No aerobatics.

Thanks,
Steve
Click to expand...

Steve,

I don't know your history with your presumably new-to-you RV-7 so some of this may not apply. But what you are describing is the wonderful control response that has captured the fancy of most RV pilots. More time in the aircraft will make control response feel more natural.

To address your question, there is no provision for altering the geometry of the elevator control circuit short of redesign of components. The only mod that is sometimes made is to the length of the control stick but usually that is to shorten the stick.

If indeed your plane is more sensitive to elevator input than it should be, it might be due to a couple of things. When the plane is flown with the CG in the aft part of the range the elevator will become much more sensitive.

The other reason, and I suspect this may be valid if you are new to the plane, is that you are landing the plane too far above stall speed. If you come whistling down final several knots above 1.3 stall, you will have a plane that will easily zoom with minimal elevator input.

As Mike Seager told me during transition flights, "The RV is easy to fly but difficult to fly precisely". My 13 years in the RV-6 have proven him correct. The plane must be landed on speed in order to have the outcome you desire.

Hope this helps and enjoy your new plane!
 
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First off all, not sure what happened to my title, sorry about that.

I know I didn't give much information, I just had a quick question.

I didn't mean to imply that it was necessarily a bad thing, but more of an option to customize the feel of the plane.

This is actually my dad's plane. He got it about a year and a half ago and couldn't be happier. He owned a Cessna 170B for something like 15 years. It's actually what I learned to fly in when I was 15.

We both have lots of experience in tail draggers, but this is definitely the most amazing plane I think either one of us have flown. I'm hoping to be able to get a 6 here in a few years.

About the landing speed. I don't think that's the issue. We've been doing 3 pt landings, and not floating much at all. It's not like we're doing wheel landings and trying to force it down. Trust me, that 170 was very good at embarrassing anyone who tried to make it stop flying before it was ready to :)

This is the only RV that we've flown, and had nothing to compare to. We'll get the hang of it!
 
If the stick length has been reduced more than necessary you can get this. I find a cut-down stick can give quite an unpleasant elevator feel.

I helped modify an RV-6 stick to try to get the length back. After completely replacing the sticks and grips, clearance issues made it so the actual length gained was pretty minimal and I was discouraged about doing all that work for so little gain. The little bit made a big handling difference though. The airplane is much more pleasant to land now.
 
steve91t said:
...This is actually my dad's plane. He got it about a year and a half ago and couldn't be happier. He owned a Cessna 170B for something like 15 years. It's actually what I learned to fly in when I was 15...
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Just a data point, but I fly a 170B every once in a while and it takes quite a bit of time to get comfortable again. My Hiperbipe makes the RV-8 controls feel heavy and slow by comparison, so jumping into the 170 is a whole different world. The Cessna is so slow to react that it almost seems dangerous to fly. It isn't of course, but with time you will come to appreciate the quick response of the RV. I'll stick the RV or Hiperbipe into crosswind landings the Cessna driver would never DREAM of.

Give it time.
 
steve91t said:
I know when I'm landing, the stick can't move more than what feels like an inch for the flare. It's nearly pressure sensitive.


Thanks,
Steve
Click to expand...

I like to add a bit of down trim in the pattern, it helps give me a better "feel" during landing. Just load up the stick a bit, couple pounds of force is all.

My landings have gotten much better after doing this, much more consistent too.

This is not without its hazards though, you must not let go of the stick for any reason on final, as you can imagine what would happen:eek:

If you decide to try this, I suggest you practice a simulated pattern a couple mistakes high.

It works for me, but as they say YMMV
 
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It took me a fair number of hours to feel my airplane....and I'm still learning after 100hrs RV.

when I did my transition trainiing with Mr. Seagar, he said I was a typical Cessna/citabria driver. Over controlled it badly. I mentioned to him that I felt I was barely moving the stick and was too sensitive. He said the problem is you are thinking about the stick when you should be thinking about moving the plane. So I started thinking about the plane and how it moves and quit worrying how much I moved the stick. Seemed to work a little better later that day. the next morning I arrived for my lessons and I told him I had thought about it all night.

My actual response was: normally I'm the guy, people call to move a piano, not play it!;) so once I started playing the piano, things improved.

BTW-I'm big boned or husky if you prefer.:D
 
hydroguy2 said:
My actual response was: normally I'm the guy, people call to move a piano, not play it!;) so once I started playing the piano, things improved.

BTW-I'm big boned or husky if you prefer.:D
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:D Haha! From a fellow "big boned" piano mover, that is funny! I did transition training in a 6. The first attempts to fly that 6 were very enlightening. Going from a 172 to that 6 it took me quite a bit of time before I understood the concept of "playing the piano" instead of "moving the piano".
 
My -6A has normal length sticks. I find that I tend to fly with my hand about halfway down the stick in cruise and just a light touch on the stick. In landing the hand moves up and the feel is just right.
 
check Stabilizer incidence

The incidence of the stabilizer can influence the stick force gradients. It is possible for the builder to install the stabilizer at the wrong incidence and make the controls very sensitive, even possible to get negative stick force gradient (very unpleasant).

So, Using the plans, or the preview plans, examine how to measure the stabilizer incidence, and insure that it is correct on your airpane.
 
scsmith said:
The incidence of the stabilizer can influence the stick force gradients. It is possible for the builder to install the stabilizer at the wrong incidence and make the controls very sensitive, even possible to get negative stick force gradient (very unpleasant).

So, Using the plans, or the preview plans, examine how to measure the stabilizer incidence, and insure that it is correct on your airpane.
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This speaks to my question which is: Are the elevator stick forces on the plane being discussed within the "normal" range?

There was an excellent thread awhile back regarding the trailing edge radius on the ailerons. In a nutshell, the larger the radius the lighter the stick forces. I assume the same principals are at play here. I've read that if the aileron trailing edge radius is too large it is possible for the controls to exhibit stick snatch.

Maybe you could fly another RV and compare stick forces.
 
Another possible factor...

If the bends on the elevator trailing edges are not completed properly it can cause a lighter aerodynamic feed back to the stick.

This, coupled with a combination of some of the other factors already mentioned can lead to a very low stick force, for someone no familiar with RV's

Another trick that helps... is as you do your final slow-up on short final, do not adjust elevator trim for a neutral trim condition. Leave the trim adjusted so that some back stick force is required. This will help with teh pitch feel through teh roundout and flare.
 
Gosh that sounds unnatural

rvbuilder2002 said:
...
Another trick that helps... is as you do your final slow-up on short final, do not adjust elevator trim for a neutral trim condition. Leave the trim adjusted so that some back stick force is required. This will help with teh pitch feel through teh roundout and flare.
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On an "A" model that sounds like a technique that is going to result in a nose porpoise - I guess it works but I never thought of doing it that way.

Bob Axsom
 
Bob Axsom said:
On an "A" model that sounds like a technique that is going to result in a nose porpoise - I guess it works but I never thought of doing it that way.

Bob Axsom
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Bob, this is the exact same thing I was talking about on the first page of this thread.

Not sure what you are talking about a "nose porpoise"??

What we are talking about loads the stick up a bit, so in the landing approach the stick has a more solid feel.
 
RV7AV8R said:
Is your CG toward the rear as you get with the rv7 and a fixed pitch prop?
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I definitely think that the CG is worth checking - especially if the airplane is "experienced" (empty CG shifts with paint, etc). Aft CG will definitely make the pitch forces lighter, especially when slow, and the empty CG on many RV's is somewhat "approximate".

Paul
 
Well this is it

Mike S said:
Bob, this is the exact same thing I was talking about on the first page of this thread.

Not sure what you are talking about a "nose porpoise"??

What we are talking about loads the stick up a bit, so in the landing approach the stick has a more solid feel.
Click to expand...

If I trim the plane so that it wants to push the nose down and I try to force the nose up the tendency is to relax a little when the mains are on the runway and depending on the amount of nose down trim (and there is no deadband of specific trim feedback here) and the amount of unregulated relaxing I do in this time of transition from flying to rolling on the landing gear there will be a nose down tendency both from the landing CG and the relaxing of the elevator control. Premature NLG contact is a normal result that requires an extra amount of varying pitch control to hold it off. If or I should say when this happens a boing, boing, boing sensation occurs until you slow so much that the energy disipates and a smooth roll transition occurs. I trim so the pitch forces are neutral and I fly the plane by sight and instinct, pulling the nose up softly as the energy disipates in the air so the plane does not balloon and softly settles onto the runway with no tendency to change pitch attitude with the MLG only on the runway. I have several different wing span configurations on my airplane and the procedure is the same with all 4 of them. Having to horse the nose up through the landing process just seems unnatural to me. If it works for you folks - well it's your procedure - I simply would not do it that way.

Bob Axsom
 
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