Intercom opinions please

[Charles in SC]

I am in the market for an intercom, I would like a real simple to install panel mount, 2 place. I do not care about music etc inputs. I am kind of down on PS because you have to involve a dealer to install them as I understand it. I have two King radios, a KY 197 and a KX 155 with a KMA 24 audio panel.
Thanks in advance!

 

[n801bh]

I am in the market for an intercom, I would like a real simple to install panel mount, 2 place. I do not care about music etc inputs. I am kind of down on PS because you have to involve a dealer to install them as I understand it. I have two King radios, a KY 197 and a KX 155 with a KMA 24 audio panel.
Thanks in advance!

Not true..............


Anyone can install a PS intercom......

 

[garymail]

Intercom

Get the sigtronics SPA 400, forget the rest!!!!!

Gary Brown
ATP A@P IA CFI DAR

 

[DennisRhodes]

Call Mark at PS Engineering

PS Engineering makes some of the best intercoms that I have used. They also provide great customer service. I think all they do is intercoms. I use an Aerocom III supplied as as a portable and installed as permanent in my RV9 . The auto VOX works great if you will install the Mic Muffs as recommended. Ive used one in a homebuilt since 1984 ! They also make some other panel mounted intercoms that are probably the same electronics.

 

[KatieB]

+1 for PS Engineering! They make excellent stuff. Mark will get you all set up.

 

[rvator51]

That new Dynon Intercom looks pretty cool.

 

[Mel]

I like the PM1000II. A nice feature is having individual squelch controls for Pilot and Co-Pilot.

 

[ChiefPilot]

I installed a PS Engineering 3000 in my airplane, myself, with no dealer involvement. They make great stuff.

 

[jimbo]

I have the PS Engineering PM1000II as I recall. Had some questions about how to read the electrical diagram that came with the unit as they speak a different language. I called PS Engineering with some questions and they really didn't want to talk with me unless I was a dealer or avionics shop. I got some help from a technical adviser to sort it out. Once you know how to understand the wire diagram the actually wiring and soldering wasn't difficult if you took your time. Upon power up everything works like it should and I believe it is a quality unit. Very quite and static free.

PS Engineering will make part of the wire harness up but not all-never understood why. I called a somewhat local avionics shop (40 miles away) and they were going to charge me $450-a very fair price considering the time I put into it but decided to do it myself. One advantage of the avionic shop is that they bunch test it out with your com radio.

Jim
RV9A
Phase 1

 

[Neal@F14]

I've pulled more than a few Sigtronics and Flightcom intercoms out of planes that were getting replaced by PS Engineering units. The Sigs and FCs just can't seem to handle the high-noise environment of an RV nearly as well as the PS units. In fact, I'm about to replace an almost brand new Sig Sport 200S out of a Legend Cub with a PM1200 because first of all, it's not loud enough and second, the airplane's owner wants a PTT-ICS (push-to-intercom) operation, and the Sig 200S's PTT-ICS implementation is next to worthless. All it does is open the (single) squelch circuit (the VOX function stays working so you have to crank the squelch knob all the way to one end), which lets in all the noise from both mikes simultaneously and pretty much defeats the purpose of having PTT-ICS in a noisy airplane altogether.

PS Engineering intercoms are used in RVs pretty much for the same reason why Lyc/clone engines are used in RVs.... it's what works best!

EDIT: If you just have to use an audio panel, I'd ditch the KMA24 audio panel and instead use a PS Engineering audio panel with built-in intercom and other neat integrated features (cellphone interface, music inputs, etc). Otherwise some simple audio routing switches and a regular intercom could be used in lieu of an old fashioned audio panel. The PMA4000 audio panel/intercom is very simple to wire up and operate, and is available in both rectangular and round-instrument-hole mounting formats, and is an excellent performer in a noisy aircraft like an RV. Take a look at it here: http://www.ps-engineering.com/pma4000.shtml

Steinair or Aerotronics can make your prewired harnesses if you don't want to do them yourself, but wiring up an intercom isn't too terribly hard to do at all.

 

[alpinelakespilot2000]

Not to dismiss PS Engineering probably being among the best, but I have found the Flightcom 403 to work great and it's hard to beat the price. It doesn't have squelch for both pilot and copilot, but I haven't found that to be necessary, even using two different types of headsets. I use it in conjunction with an Icom A210 and am very happy. This is one of those many decisions that will probably be influenced by whether you are building the $60K 2-place RV or the $80K 2-place RV. Good luck.

 

[Doug]

I like the PM1000II. A nice feature is having individual squelch controls for Pilot and Co-Pilot.

..and individual volume controls. This means you can mix headset types, thus saving the cost of an extra expensive headset for the passenger. Very happy with my PM1000II.

 

[Neal@F14]

Not to dismiss PS Engineering probably being among the best, but I have found the Flightcom 403 to work great and it's hard to beat the price.

The worst problem with the FC 403 is that it shares a single internal squelch gate circuit for all mic inputs simultaneously. That means if one mic is spoken into, the VOX squelch circuit opens up all mics at the same time, letting sound from them all to get mixed together, including your passenger who's got the air vent blowing into his face to keep cool (though RVs generally have only two mics, this budget-priced intercom often finds its way into C172s and Cherokees with four headsets plugged in, really exacerbating the noise problem). It is $200 cheaper than a PM3000, but I will gladly pay that extra couple hundred, I think it's well worth it.

If you fly solo most of the time, then the only mic opening the squelch gate is your own headset, so that noise problem doesn't happen until you plug in a 2nd headset.

 

[BobTurner]

If you fly solo most of the time, then the only mic opening the squelch gate is your own headset, so that noise problem doesn't happen until you plug in a 2nd headset.

Are you saying this is an intercom for people who like to talk to themselves? -

I agree 100%, whatever you get make sure that the mike that is being spoken into is the only one that goes hot.

 

[mscheuer]

PS Engineering Support

I have the PS Engineering PM1000II as I recall. Had some questions about how to read the electrical diagram that came with the unit as they speak a different language. I called PS Engineering with some questions and they really didn't want to talk with me unless I was a dealer or avionics shop. I got some help from a technical adviser to sort it out. Once you know how to understand the wire diagram the actually wiring and soldering wasn't difficult if you took your time. Upon power up everything works like it should and I believe it is a quality unit. Very quite and static free.

PS Engineering will make part of the wire harness up but not all-never understood why. I called a somewhat local avionics shop (40 miles away) and they were going to charge me $450-a very fair price considering the time I put into it but decided to do it myself. One advantage of the avionic shop is that they bunch test it out with your com radio.

Jim
RV9A
Phase 1

Dear Jim:

Most likely, you spoke with me. I am sorry my message came across as not carrying to speak with you. I love talking to pilots and avionics shops alike. It's actually my favorite part of my job.

However, when it comes to specific installation questions, I refer my customers to the avionics shop that sold the intercom to them. This is because a) they have the knowledge in installations that we don't and b) they have an agreement with my company to support the installation of the product sold to that customer.

As far as questions specific to our wiring diagram, I can't imagine why I wouldn't have been helpful, that's not in my DNA. That is something I always do, that is part of our responsibility.

However, if the questions were about hooking a radio to our intercom, I would have referred you to our FAQ #24 that speaks in plan talk about to interface the radio to our intercom.

Finally, we have even published a PowerPoint presentation on our web site to help pilots build harnesses correctly. That is a great resource.

So, I'm sorry that I was not in tune with your questions or that I came across that I didn't want to talk with you. I guess we all have bad days, but for me, it doesn't happen all that often. I love helping our customers. But when it is a specific install questions, I will always refer them to the dealer who sold the product, it's their job and they have agreed with us to do just that.

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.

 

[Neal@F14]

Are you saying this is an intercom for people who like to talk to themselves? -

I agree 100%, whatever you get make sure that the mike that is being spoken into is the only one that goes hot.

Pretty much... if you're mostly flying solo with only your own headset plugged in, then the FC 403 is a pretty darn good inexpensive intercom option. But if you've frequently got a second headset plugged in with a noisy airplane like an RV, then by all means spend the extra money and get a premium intercom like a PM1000-II or for stereo the PM3000. I've put PM3000's in three different airplanes and IMHO it's well worth the $420-430 price tag. Better yet if you can find a good used one here on the VAF classifieds like one that recently sold for around $300

 

[n801bh]

Now that Mark @ PSE has chimed in I will share my installation issue... I am pretty good at electrical systems but the instructions for my 1000II showed something a bit different then what I was used to.. + /- is one way of showing wire polarity. Or Line / ground, or even signal / ground.. I got stumped when I saw high/ low....

Mark was very polite and quickly set me straight in that high = signal and low= ground...

I bought all my avionics from Pacific Coast and I did call them for advice but they told me since they didn't get the install in my plane ,they could NOT help me with the question I had... They suggested I call PSE and order the wiring harness from PSE so my warranty would be valid.. Turns out the PSE harness would have cost about twice as much as the new PS1000II I bought from PCA....

Long story short.. I made my own harness and my system works perfectly and I LOVE my PSE intercom.. YMMV..

 

[Walt]

Dear Jim:

Most likely, you spoke with me. I am sorry my message came across as not carrying to speak with you. I love talking to pilots and avionics shops alike. It's actually my favorite part of my job.

However, when it comes to specific installation questions, I refer my customers to the avionics shop that sold the intercom to them. This is because a) they have the knowledge in installations that we don't and b) they have an agreement with my company to support the installation of the product sold to that customer.

But when it is a specific install questions, I will always refer them to the dealer who sold the product, it's their job and they have agreed with us to do just that.

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.

Playing the devils advocate here (and from personal experience).... What if the customer purchases the unit from a "dealer" like Aircraft Spruce, where does he turn for support then?

 

[Neal@F14]

What if the customer purchases the unit from a "dealer" like Aircraft Spruce, where does he turn for support then?

The VAF forums, of course!

 

[mscheuer]

Aircraft Spruce

Playing the devils advocate here (and from personal experience).... What if the customer purchases the unit from a "dealer" like Aircraft Spruce, where does he turn for support then?

Walt, that is an excellent question! Just yesterday I had a customer who purchased a PAR200 from them. The customer elected not to purchase a harness from either one of us.

I helped that customer with some basic stuff. And in fact, we discovered he did not use insulation washers on the mic and headphone jacks. So I pointed him in the right direction and if that didn't solve the problem he should call Aircraft Spruce.

He then said that when he did ask ACS a technical question they referred the customer back to us. So I called and had a great conversation with the avionics manager last night. Needless to say he was not happy with what had happened. He assured me that they do have a process in place specifically to address these issues when it pertains to PS Engineering products and this sales person just missed that opportunity. I'm positive that that won't happen again.

ACS does have a very capable avionics shop with great technicians that can help with PS Engineering customer installations. But remember, there is only so much anyone can do when the harnesses are not built correctly.

There have been so many times where short cuts have been made. And when this happens, our products can't performed as designed and in some cases, the customer blames the hardware. That is exactly what I'm trying to prevent happening when we tie the warranty with having a custom harness made.

I'll always do my best to make sure that if the installation question isn't easily resolved, that the customer will feel comfortable calling the dealer who sold the product.

The only reason we make harnesses is to support the home builder. The price we charge is very reasonable. I think most would agree if they have made a harness themselves. Our dealers are also very capable in building great harnesses.

OK, long answer but I believe PS Engineering does provide great customer support and when teamed up the selling avionics shop, it's a strong combination to provide the best support possible.

Thanks for asking.

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering

 

[JRV]

support at PS Engineering

I had the chance last month to test out the support at PS Engineering.

Great result, so here is my small plug for them.

I bought the PMA5000EX from ACS, and then had the harness made up by PS Engineering.
Last month I started the install and had a question about wiring into the unswitched audio inputs. ( more to do with the wiring out of 3rd party device, than the input into the audio panel) An email to the support line at ps Engineering, and I had a prompt, friendly and helpful reply from Mark.
A few days, another more general question lead to another email, and same result.

Fantastic Support.

Thanks Mark.

PS - Yes I paid for the harness, but it is a thing of beauty, that is not made in 5 minutes.


Jason