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I'm new and I need tools....

N

N999NN

I'm New Here
Hello, guys. Here's my deal:

I love building stuff, and I am cool with taking a very long time to do this. I am going to build an RV7A. Right now, I have a 21 gallon air compressor, and some basic air tools, like an Air Hammer, an Air Ratchet, an Impact Gun, etc.

I am on a budget to start with, and plan on saving money and buying both kits and tools as I go (otherwise, I'll be years before I have enough to buy all at the same time). I am thinking about buying http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=2307/index.html to start with, because it seems to have everything I'll need to start with, but I'd like to know for sure if there is ANYTHING else that is a must have (not a "nice to have," but a must have).

Beyond the tools I listed above, assume I have nothing that I'll need. What do y'all think?
 
You won't need (or use) any of the tools you listed to build the plane, and if your compressor is an oil-less type, then you won't want that either. If your budget is really tight, maybe you can sell off some of the air tools to get the stuff you'll need. You'll need a compressor you can live with and a good rivet gun, otherwise the plane can be built with hand tools and cord or cordless drills.
 
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I agree about the air compressor, but hand tools.... you'll be kicking & cursing yourself by trying to build an RV with a cordless drill and a hammer!! I would highly recommend Cleveland's RV starter kit..... http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EMPKITW

You'll use and need ALL of these tools.... and more, to build an RV! You're looking at a minimum $45K project here, don't skimp by on tools.
 
A lot of the "nice to have" items will get you going quicker and with far less frustration. It's verry irritating when you're trying to get at a rivet and you don't have exactly the right tool. You mangle it, drill it out, mangle it, drill it. Eventually you'll end up in the house ordering the right tool, and possibly the replacement part from Vans as well.

If you aren't in a hurry, you should be able to pickup most of the tools for a nice discount. Ebay is a good place to look, and so is the classifieds here. You can post a WTB ad and someone here will probably have just about everything for sale you could want, and likely at a nice discount from retail.

I tried to stick to a tool budget when I started last month. I've totally blown it, but I know I've gotten a great deal on everything I've purchased, and will be able to get my money back if I decide to sell the tools when I'm done.

One of my best purchases was a cp-214 style pneumatic squeezer on ebay for $200. I'd recommend trying to do the same. The pneumatic makes it easy to hold the part in one hand and the tool in the other. Dimpling is also a breeze as you can zip right through piles of ribs and spars. I also ended up spending an additional $300 on yokes and the adjustable set from Avery. On some of those purchases you just have to sorta cringe, close your eyes, and hit the "Place Order" button.
 
rv9av8tr said:
I agree about the air compressor, but hand tools.... you'll be kicking & cursing yourself by trying to build an RV with a cordless drill and a hammer!! I would highly recommend Cleveland's RV starter kit..... http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EMPKITW

You'll use and need ALL of these tools.... and more, to build an RV! You're looking at a minimum $45K project here, don't skimp by on tools.
Click to expand...

Hmmm....the only tools in the Cleaveland starter kit that aren't hand tools are the afore mentioned rivet gun and a cheap air drill.
 
Maybe I'm not explaining my situation properly. Sorry about that. This is what I mean.

My air compressor is fine. Its not very loud, and its not oilless, I have to oil that bad boy and make sure the oil is up to the red line on the side of the tank.

I do not really want to do everything by hand. I know that I'll need a pneumatic rivet gun (I have a really nice Air Hammer....I think its the same thing, but I've never actually seen a pneumatic rivet gun), but in the same vein, If I have to drop almost $2500 just to start with the tools, I'll be at this forever. That's why I'm thinking a bare kit like the one I linked, and add to it as I get money, and that's what I'm asking advice for.

Is there anything that is not included in that kit that I must have, day one?
 
I'm looking at the cleveland set. If I get the pneumatic Rivet Gun, do I still need the hand squeezer? That right there would bring the kit into my initial price range if I dropped that tool off...
 
You need the pneumatic rivet gun, the air hammer just won't work. Rivet guns have a much better "teasing" trigger for controllability. You'll need the hand squeezer as you'll want to squeeze as many rivets as possible. You'll also need it for dimpling. You can get a much cheaper squeezer (like a Tatco, or clone), but the Cleaveland is as good as it gets! Plus, the Cleaveland uses the same yokes as the pneumatic squeezer that you'll be buying anyway. The Tatco doesn't. There are cheaper squeezers that use pneumatic type yokes, but if you don't like buying tools twice, get the Cleaveland right off the bat.
 
N999NN said:
Is there anything that is not included in that kit that I must have, day one?
Click to expand...

You will need an assortment of files, a 6" bench grinder with a Scotchbrite wheel or two (medium and fine) is highly recommended, Scotchbrite hand pads, whatever you are going to use for prep and priming (cleaning chemicals and primer) a spray gun if you are not going to use rattle can primer, some sort of metal-cutting saw-most of us use a cheap Ryobi table-top type bandsaw. This will get you started; though I'm sure I forget stuff you'll need on day one.
 
captainron said:
You will need an assortment of files, a 6" bench grinder with a Scotchbrite wheel or two (medium and fine) is highly recommended, Scotchbrite hand pads, whatever you are going to use for prep and priming (cleaning chemicals and primer) a spray gun if you are not going to use rattle can primer, some sort of metal-cutting saw-most of us use a cheap Ryobi table-top type bandsaw. This will get you started; though I'm sure I forget stuff you'll need on day one.
Click to expand...
Thanks Ron! I think what I'll do is get the Cleaveland kit, minus the hand squeezer and the pneumatic rivet gun, and get those off ebay or some other source. That will most likely make me able to get the kit ordered today, and then add the others as time/money comes around.

I have a huge amount of files already, but I do need a bench grinder, which I'll pick up at a local hardware store shortly. Also - I have a Ryobi bandsaw already, so looks like I may already have some of the extra stuff I need. I understand about the air hammer, and I won't even bother trying that (to be honest, I'm not a big fan of Air Hammers anyways).

So - the yokes make no sense to me. Is that something that you see how they work when you get the tool in hand? Maybe I misunderstand the way pneumatic riveting works, but I thought you held the bucking bar behind the metal, and using the rivet gun, you smash the rivet into the bucking bar. Seems the yoke goes behind the material too....
 
N999NN said:
Thanks Ron! I think what I'll do is get the Cleaveland kit, minus the hand squeezer and the pneumatic rivet gun, and get those off ebay or some other source. That will most likely make me able to get the kit ordered today, and then add the others as time/money comes around.

I have a huge amount of files already, but I do need a bench grinder, which I'll pick up at a local hardware store shortly. Also - I have a Ryobi bandsaw already, so looks like I may already have some of the extra stuff I need. I understand about the air hammer, and I won't even bother trying that (to be honest, I'm not a big fan of Air Hammers anyways).

So - the yokes make no sense to me. Is that something that you see how they work when you get the tool in hand? Maybe I misunderstand the way pneumatic riveting works, but I thought you held the bucking bar behind the metal, and using the rivet gun, you smash the rivet into the bucking bar. Seems the yoke goes behind the material too....
Click to expand...

Yokes are used with squeezers, either hand or pneumatic, and the rivet is squeezed, kind of like if you had it in a c-clamp or vise. It performs the same function as using a rivet hammer on one end of the rivet, while "bucking" or forming the shop-head on the other end of the rivet with a bucking bar. Squeezing if the preferred method when you can get to both ends of the rivet with a squeezing tool, such as when the rivets are along edges of parts. "Shooting" rivets, i.e., using a rivet gun and bucking bar is for riveting in the middle of sheets when you can't get to both ends of the rivet with a squeezer. When working with really large pieces such as wing panels, you will need another person to either "shoot" or "buck" the rivet.
Take a look at a pneumatic squeezer with say a three inch yoke, and think of it as a c-clamp where the rivet is squeeze-formed between the ram and the flat die at the tip of the yoke. With this set-up, you could set rivets provided that the rivet was within three inches from the edge of the material being riveted. Make sense?
 
Here are a few pics.

Hope this helps explain things:
[img=http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/727/dsc00360vh6.th.jpg]
This is a Cleaveland squeezer with a three-inch yoke squeezing a flush rivet.

[img=http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/637/dsc00359vs6.th.jpg]
Close-up view of forming "shop-head".

[img=http://im g91.imageshack.us/img91/5838/dsc00361sp2.th.jpg]
How a yoke lets you "reach" rivets.

[img=http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2926/dsc00362xz7.th.jpg]
Rivet is squeezed between these two points.

[img=http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9003/dsc00364qe6.th.jpg]
Tatco squeezer with extra yokes.

[img=http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6695/dsc00365xc2.th.jpg]
This is a pneumatic squeezer with a longeron yoke, good for reaching around parts.
 
Sport Air...

Might I make a suggestion to plan on attending a Sport Air workshop. You'll get a great idea which tools you'll really need for the early part of construction. One way or another, you'll be be spending $$ on tools throughout construction.

Jim
 
Excellent idea

That class is probably the best "tool" I bought. Not only does it allow you to try out some different tools before you decide which ones you "need", but you will learn techniques that will save you big bucks down the road.:D



Jim P said:
Might I make a suggestion to plan on attending a Sport Air workshop. You'll get a great idea which tools you'll really need for the early part of construction. One way or another, you'll be be spending $$ on tools throughout construction.

Jim
Click to expand...
 
After reading this thread I absolutly agree with taking a class. In one day you will learn more about what you need as far as tools and what you need to know about building an airplane than you'll ever get poking along on your own. Wally Anderson (Synergy Air) throws a great beginning class in Eugene Oregon and while your here you can go up to Aurora and see where it all begins. Although there are other classes in several areas of the country Synergy Air is the one I've gone to and am most famlier with. What ever you do DON'T use a air hammer. Not only is the trigger different but more importantly the way the tool strokes is very different.
 
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