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IFR Question

Jordan17

Member
Hey everyone,

I have been wondering about this for a little while so I thought I would tap into some people who know a lot about IFR operating procedures. I have my ppl and know how to do a rnav approach and an ASR approach, but I don't have my instrument rating. My older brother is a pilot in the Air Force has gone up with me to show me how to do these approaches. Am I allowed to fly these during VFR conditions or is that restricted only to those who have an instrument rating? Any help is greatly appreciated!

-Jordan
 
I second both replies.

  • Never ever use a view limiting device (foggles, hood, etc) without a safety pilot-- even if you have TCAS.
  • As for practice approaches, Any pilot can fly Practice Instrument Approaches in visual meteorological conditions. I'd recommend flying them (as well as simulated instrument) as much as you can. The skills of instrument flying should be taught much more than the minimalistic basic attitude instrument flying that you get with your private pilot instruction.

Here's my soapbox rant.

The FAA is highly reactionary. The Feds take a pet into their offices and focus on them based on accident and incident statistics and reports. It just seems that continued flight into instrument conditions (or marginal VFR conditions) by Private Pilots doesn't kill enough pilots to be focussed on.

As a professional pilot with a current flight instructor's rating (that I rarely use), I'd rather see students learn (and test satisfactorily) more instrument skills and phase out ground reference maneuvers as a tested item for a checkride. A turn around a point won't save your hide, while instrument skills CAN. I acknowledge that ground reference maneuvers if practiced in strong winds will help a pilot make nicer traffic patterns, but ugly traffic patterns don't kill pilots outside of inappropriate management of airspeed and descent profile.


End Soapbox rant.


Get more instrument experience. Yes, fly those approaches in visual conditions. Yes get some practice simulated instrument. Practice controlled descents, climbs, turns in simulated instrument. Fly constant airspeed and rate climb and descents on planned headings (then try gps or vor or ILS tracks) Practice configuration and airspeed changes in simulated instrument (straight and level, and descending) Do simulated instrument go-arounds... but please not at low altitude. Practice instrument approaches in visual conditions with a safety pilot with a hood or foggles. ALL OF THIS CAN BE DONE WITH FLYING BUDDIES. IT DOESN"T HAVE TO BE WITH AN INSTRUCTOR. An instructor might be able to help you hone the skills faster but it'll also eat cash like you wouldn't believe.

Better yet... get some instrument training. Get some instrument time. AN IMPORTANT HINT if you want to pay for instrument instruction-- see if you can do some of it in a quality PC based simulator. Simulator can be cheaper than fuel in your airplane per hour and can be more productive. Most if not all of the time in the sim will be loggable instrument time, and 20 hours will count towards your instrument rating if you went that far. Some flight instructors charge a lesser hourly rate for simulator instruction as well even though its instrument instruction.
Your flying will improve for it-- as well as with tailwheel instruction, a seaplane rating, mountain flying instruction, aerobatics training, unusual attitude recovery training, a multi-engine rating, ALL will improve your skills.

Improving your skills is one thing. Puting another tool in your "flying toolbox" is always worth the cost. Only this tool increases your safety margins.
 
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Thank you guys very much for all the help. I guess it would probably be a good idea to get out to the airport when it isn't busy when I practice. Thanks again!

-Jordan
 
Start with a good foundation

Jordan:
Just to be clear. Practicing instrument flight is an excellent idea. However, it's a little like the game of golf. Do it without proper instruction, and all you're likely to do is gain a poor understanding of the game and end up with a lot of bad habits that won't allow you to be any more than a marginal player at best.
Yes, you can practice instrument approaches. You can't file or accept an instrument clearance unless you're properly rated. No, you can't practice with a hood on with one of your "buddies" unless that person possesses at least a private license with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown. In other words, they're capable of "taking over".
I'm a big advocate of practice. I'm not an advocate of repeating bad habits and calling it practice. There are a number of things you can start with on your own, such as holding altitude (aim for +/- 50 feet) and headings (+/- 5 degrees). I'm always a little amazed at how many pilots don't know how to properly trim an aircraft. Try standard rate turns to a heading and timed turns. Roll out using half the bank angle as the lead. Do you know what Vx, Vy, and Va are for your aircraft? Do you know what the power settings are for descent at Vcruise, Vfe, and Va to give your 500 fpm or 1000 fpm?
If you work on flying with precision as a VFR pilot, the mechanics of instrument flight will be much easier to master.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
 
Ugly traffic patterns

:)can kill you. One of the most frequent errors I see in lower time pilots, during flight reviews or checkouts, is an uncoordinated turn from base to final caused by a lack of understanding of what they were supposed to learn during ground reference manuevers. While I agree with much of what Bill has to say, I would hesitate for anyone to under estimate the value of those very basic concepts. :)

Steve
 
Stalls/spins are a different story, and should be taught.

:)can kill you. One of the most frequent errors I see in lower time pilots, during flight reviews or checkouts, is an uncoordinated turn from base to final caused by a lack of understanding of what they were supposed to learn during ground reference manuevers. While I agree with much of what Bill has to say, I would hesitate for anyone to under estimate the value of those very basic concepts. :)

Steve

seems like you understand the issue, but maybe misread my post.

I wrote...

" ugly traffic patterns don't kill pilots outside of inappropriate management of airspeed and descent profile."

...but I'm happy that I havn't totally wasted my time.

We can start another thread about the absence of spin training for the PPL, and why it should be there. :D
 
Coordinated Turns

I have had spin training, basic aerobatic maneuvers, and I have my tailwheel endorsement in which we covered the base to final turns and everything else you could think of! I was lucky to get it done by a friend who isn't scared to tell you something is being done wrong. He beat it into my head to not cross control on important turns like base to final.
 
I agree

Bill about spin training and think that proficiency ought to be included in every training scenario for private and commercial tickets. I'm an old timer and have plenty of hours under my belt, but I take unusual attitude and spin training from a qualified instructor every couple of years - it's great fun and, I always learn something. I see that you're down in Petaluma. I'm up north near Yreka. Hopefully, my -8 will be finished sometime this year and I can catch up to you in No Cal some day.
Regards

Steve
 
When you get it done....

When you do get it done, if you come on down to Petaluma I'll show you what a mess I'm making with the fuselage... :D

I should be well into it by then.
 
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