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HS-405 to front spar question

F

f14rio

Member
The book says I will hit every imaginable emotion... I just figured it wouldn't have happened so quick! Happy when it arrived and now feeling stupid, confused and ticked off! I am about 10 or so hours into construction. Rear spar - piece of cake.
Front spar with the bending and such and trying to follow the directions... not so easy for me. Specifically HS-405 mated to the Front spar - where the heck is it supposed to line up at? View A-A gives a little hint - it says "drill in assembly" or something like that. Well there are no dimensions... what gives?

Anybody have some advice or good pictures of this process?
 
Hs405

The holes between HS405 and the front spar are drilled when it is clecoed to the skins, which hold it in place. You need either an angle drill or a long (12") drill for these holes. Read "Drilling the Horizontal Stabilizer" on pages 6-2 and 6-3 of the instructions.

The instructions for the empennage kit are the most explicit you get :rolleyes: Literally follow them step by step.
 
Whoops, was in the middle of answering this and saw it's alrady been answered. I know the construction process is differene know than when I built this part in 2001. Basically, at this point, I put the skins on and clecoed them down , then clamped the 405 in place to fit flush with the skins. Did the same with the HS 404. Then drilled the 405-spar-404 with a 12" drill
 
They do give you where the holes should be, its in view D-D, but it is not explained well. The way I see you need to do it is take out the HS-404 and HS-405 and butt them together without the spar. The holes are 1/4" from the edge of the flange of the HS-404. Mark the hole location on the HS-405 and you will be set.

I too had a hard time with this when I did it -- in fact, I didn't fully understand and one side of my HS had 3 rivets holding the HS-405/404 together because of edge distance issues.

Good luck!
 
I guess it's kinda funny that I thought the directions should say to cleco the skin on and then fit 404 and 405. It just says use section d-d to drill the holes which is fine but it doesn't tell you where the holes will be on HS-710 and 714 though. Section A-A gives a hint but no dimensions.

So, clecoing (is that a word?) everything then fit 404 and 405 makes sense.

I am just trying to get a handle on the directions... although above someone said they are explicit... in my mind they are not. It doesn't say anywhere in my directions to cleco the skin on and then fit 404/405 and drill holes. It says follow d-d to drill holes which gives dimensions for the holes vertically but not horizontally on the spar or 710/714. This is all part of the learning process I'm sure as the directions later on (I hear) are not explicit so you have to think things through.

Anyway...Thanks for all the tips!! It was good to read that at least one other person thought the directions were confusing at this point!
 
f14rio said:
I guess it's kinda funny that I thought the directions should say to cleco the skin on and then fit 404 and 405. It just says use section d-d to drill the holes which is fine but it doesn't tell you where the holes will be on HS-710 and 714 though. Section A-A gives a hint but no dimensions.

So, clecoing (is that a word?) everything then fit 404 and 405 makes sense.

I am just trying to get a handle on the directions... although above someone said they are explicit... in my mind they are not. It doesn't say anywhere in my directions to cleco the skin on and then fit 404/405 and drill holes. It says follow d-d to drill holes which gives dimensions for the holes vertically but not horizontally on the spar or 710/714. This is all part of the learning process I'm sure as the directions later on (I hear) are not explicit so you have to think things through.

Anyway...Thanks for all the tips!! It was good to read that at least one other person thought the directions were confusing at this point!
Click to expand...
This had me goin' for 3-4 hours last weekend. Couldn't figure out where the holes should go. Finally figured it out and drilled them.
It is all in 'D-D'. I needed to take measurements on the front of the spars with the angles clecoed in to finally figure it out.
 
The instruction in the empenage kit are very explicit, almost paint by number type instructions. When you get to the rest of the plane, then they really get vague. You often need to look ahead and fully understand all the details before you proceed, otherwise you will certainly box yourself in and damage parts. That's why Van's instructs you to read the book and review all the plans before starting. You may need to do this several times to fully understand how some things are assembled.

Happy building!

Roberta
 
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Not exactly sure, given the newfangled way of building the HS now, what the instructions say. But back in the "old" days, thee was a note on 6-2 to "locate the rivet holes in the rear spar that will attach the HS-606, HS-608, and HS-405 ribs and the HS-412 PP and HS 411PP hinge brackets. Put tape over them to prevent accidentally riveting these holes before the ribs are attached."

In the middle of 6-4 it said, "Locate the HS-405 and HS-608 ribs on the rear spar. Slamp them to the rear spar assembly, using the method shown in Fig. 6-4PP to center them on the spar. Drill the ribs to the spar, then remove and debur.

Then on 6-4 it says, "because the skeleton must correspond to the holes already in the skin, it is very important the spars and ribs be correctly positioned. The simplest way to be sure that the skeleton is aligned correctly is to use an HS-601 skin as a template. Slip a skin over the skeleton and cleco it to the rear spar. Be sure that that centerlines drawn on theribs and front spar are centered in the holes. .

Two paragraphs later it says "Do not rivet the HS-404 and front of HS-405 to the spar at this time. Leave them clecoed in place so that HS-404 may be removed, allowing access for bucking the rivets in the HS-607 rib.

** On the old plans -- 2/28/01 in my case -- there is no Section D-D.
 
I did have a nice long statement about the paint by numbers comment but I decided to erase. Anyway...

Thanks for all the input fellas... I got through the HS stab portion today without any hitches! All primed and ready for riveting...
 
I'm about in the same stage as you are or were. Compared to the rear spar the front spar is difficult, but finally piece of cake. At evenings when I'm too tired to work at the workshop I recall what are the next stages of building at next day. Then I surf to web and look for tips and pictures how others have done it -- after that when you are looking drawings at your workshop you can just imagine how easy the next step will be.

I'm sure there are a lot of good sites but so far I've stuck pretty much in next three ones (why bother to find new sites every day -- maybe when answers are not found from these sites):

Dan's site: http://www.rvproject.com/
Jeff's site: http://www.jeffsrv-7a.com/
Last but not least an Anderton's site: http://www.anderton.net.au/rv7/

If you just look what these guys have done before you start working with similar phase, the constuction should become remarkable easier... It won't decrease hours used in real work but should reduce some time used to crack the nuts. If you see the pictures and after that can't understand what the plans and drawings say, I would think twice before taking hammer. ;)

You'll also quickly see that there are places where risk of failure can be avoided just learning of mistakes what these guys have already done. It will also save time and money. And even better if you already "see" upcoming problem areas and someone (like these sites) will verify your doubts. For example rivet lengts -- I don't understand how it is so difficult to find correct lenghts. Rather leave them out from the plans and drawings if they really aren't correct and you have to verify them often. However soon you'll see correct lenght by eye.

Hopefully this helps someone...
 
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