How will the new policy on deletions affect existing orders?

[howardtlcc]

For example, we have already received most of our items but are waiting on seat rails, seats, etc. Will we be forced to buy what we deleted?

For those who have ordered but have not received the kit yet will they be forced to add back in their deletions?

Howard

 

[lyosha]

I'm more worried about how it will effect the ecosystem of vendors. Without deletions all those showplanes cowls just got 2000-3000 more expensive...

 

[PaulvS]

I'm more worried about how it will effect the ecosystem of vendors. Without deletions all those showplanes cowls just got 2000-3000 more expensive...

And hope that Van's doesn't have a backorder on cowls!

 

[9GT]

I don't think that this will have any significant impact on sales. Those that want to change out item's such as cowlings, wind screens, etc, will find that there will always be a market for the original equipment due to piece meal builds, damage during the build, damage after the build. Seller might take a small financial hit to exchange them out, but in the overall cost of the total build it is quite negligible.

 

[lyosha]

I can understand their policy for new orders as you at least know what you must buy and can plan ahead. But for those of us with kits on order over a year with a list of high dollar deletions, it is pretty sad to expect a 32% increase in cost plus the purchase of high dollar items that were deleted for which we have no need.

Honestly this one hurts more than the price increase psychologically.

I can understand the price increase. I could understand a restocking fee for unwanted components. But forcing me to accept stuff I don't need - to ship it to me only to have me ship it back or look for a buyer on a second hand market - after assuring that deletions are perfectly fine - and jeopardizing a lot of honest hard working mod builders - is just unnecessary.

If I would have known in advance I would have made arrangements... :-/

 

[deMan]

New “options”

The announcements mentions that for some kits there are options that can be chosen on the order form. Many of the deletions seem to be in finishing/FWF kits so maybe they will come up with one or two standard options that builders can choose.
Or they create some smaller kits that will be available on the store like the fuel tank and rudder kits they already have on there.

So there are ways to satisfy builders while maintaining an efficient operation. It might just take some time to get there.

 

[czechsix]

Those that want to change out item's such as cowlings, wind screens, etc, will find that there will always be a market for the original equipment due to piece meal builds, damage during the build, damage after the build.

I disagree...for some parts you might find a buyer, but for many items this isn't a realistic assumption, especially if ALL of us are going to be forced to purchase parts that are commonly deleted in favor of a popular 3rd party option. The number of surplus parts looking for a new home is going to go WAY up if Van's does this. There's not going to be enough second-hand market demand even if you're willing to give it away. Look at the number of RV-8's with Show Planes cowl and the Grove streamline aluminum landing gear. There just aren't enough ground-looped RV-8's out there needing replacement cowl and gear legs to find buyers for all of them, and these items aren't trivial to ship either. They belong in a kit destined for a buyer who needs them, not collecting dust in the corner of hundreds of shops until the builder or their estate sale finally sends these perfectly good parts to the landfill.

Honestly this one hurts more than the price increase psychologically. I can understand the price increase. I could understand a restocking fee for unwanted components. But forcing me to accept stuff I don't need - to ship it to me only to have me ship it back or look for a buyer on a second hand market - after assuring that deletions are perfectly fine - and jeopardizing a lot of honest hard working mod builders - is just unnecessary.

Totally agree, disallowing parts deletions is way worse than the price increases. Some folks (mostly with completed airplanes or the 'assemblers' who are happy with the stock kit) have suggested this is a good and necessary step for Van's to streamline operations. Van's has been doing this for fifty years and it was never a problem. They got to Chapter 11 because they failed to raise prices during a time of high inflation & parts shortages resulting in long lead times, and had to write off thousands of laser cut parts and QB's with bad primer. They've always given you a credit for deleted parts that is well below the list price of the part...arguably, they make more money on my kit purchase if I ask them to delete a $1000 part and they give me $700 credit for it. And it doesn't hold them up from shipping...their new policy requires them to have 100% of the parts in stock to ship my kit. What if I want to delete the wheels & brakes, and they happen to have a shortage of wheels and brakes in stock? They could actually ship my kit sooner in that case. And it's not like Van's doesn't have a pretty good idea how many deletions they typically get for cowls, spinners, gear legs, wheels/brakes, corrugated aluminum seatbacks, etc...they have enough order history to plan their inventory needs accordingly.

I get that the 'no deletions' policy simplifies things but the consequences of this change are way bigger than the price increases IMO. I think we're seeing the end of the golden age of homebuilding (2000-2020) where you could get a really good airframe kit at an affordable price for a middle class guy and have flexibility to build the airplane you want, not be forced to just assemble a 100% stock aircraft and pick out the paint and upholstery colors. This is really sad.

 

[N82VM]

I disagree...for some parts you might find a buyer, but for many items this isn't a realistic assumption, especially if ALL of us are going to be forced to purchase parts that are commonly deleted in favor of a popular 3rd party option. The number of surplus parts looking for a new home is going to go WAY up if Van's does this. There's not going to be enough second-hand market demand even if you're willing to give it away. Look at the number of RV-8's with Show Planes cowl and the Grove streamline aluminum landing gear. There just aren't enough ground-looped RV-8's out there needing replacement cowl and gear legs to find buyers for all of them, and these items aren't trivial to ship either. They belong in a kit destined for a buyer who needs them, not collecting dust in the corner of hundreds of shops until the builder or their estate sale finally sends these perfectly good parts to the landfill.



Totally agree, disallowing parts deletions is way worse than the price increases. Some folks (mostly with completed airplanes or the 'assemblers' who are happy with the stock kit) have suggested this is a good and necessary step for Van's to streamline operations. Van's has been doing this for fifty years and it was never a problem. They got to Chapter 11 because they failed to raise prices during a time of high inflation & parts shortages resulting in long lead times, and had to write off thousands of laser cut parts and QB's with bad primer. They've always given you a credit for deleted parts that is well below the list price of the part...arguably, they make more money on my kit purchase if I ask them to delete a $1000 part and they give me $700 credit for it. And it doesn't hold them up from shipping...their new policy requires them to have 100% of the parts in stock to ship my kit. What if I want to delete the wheels & brakes, and they happen to have a shortage of wheels and brakes in stock? They could actually ship my kit sooner in that case. And it's not like Van's doesn't have a pretty good idea how many deletions they typically get for cowls, spinners, gear legs, wheels/brakes, corrugated aluminum seatbacks, etc...they have enough order history to plan their inventory needs accordingly.

I get that the 'no deletions' policy simplifies things but the consequences of this change are way bigger than the price increases IMO. I think we're seeing the end of the golden age of homebuilding (2000-2020) where you could get a really good airframe kit at an affordable price for a middle class guy and have flexibility to build the airplane you want, not be forced to just assemble a 100% stock aircraft and pick out the paint and upholstery colors. This is really sad.

I don't disagree, but Vans makes money off those parts that will not be allowed to be deleted. I would imagine they would raise the price of the kit to make up for the deletion. I think this is six one way half a dozen the other.

They could however analyze popular options and make those available if they meet Vans design specs (not 3rd party specs) and partner with these companies. The only rub, that's something a company that is healthy and NOT in chapter 11 can do.

 

[lyosha]

For an RV10 they sell engines they can't provide cowls for (with CAI). The only cowl that would work for those engines requires a different spinner.

This is all nuts.

 

[airguy]

I disagree...for some parts you might find a buyer, but for many items this isn't a realistic assumption, especially if ALL of us are going to be forced to purchase parts that are commonly deleted in favor of a popular 3rd party option. The number of surplus parts looking for a new home is going to go WAY up if Van's does this. There's not going to be enough second-hand market demand even if you're willing to give it away. Look at the number of RV-8's with Show Planes cowl and the Grove streamline aluminum landing gear. There just aren't enough ground-looped RV-8's out there needing replacement cowl and gear legs to find buyers for all of them, and these items aren't trivial to ship either. They belong in a kit destined for a buyer who needs them, not collecting dust in the corner of hundreds of shops until the builder or their estate sale finally sends these perfectly good parts to the landfill.



Totally agree, disallowing parts deletions is way worse than the price increases. Some folks (mostly with completed airplanes or the 'assemblers' who are happy with the stock kit) have suggested this is a good and necessary step for Van's to streamline operations. Van's has been doing this for fifty years and it was never a problem. They got to Chapter 11 because they failed to raise prices during a time of high inflation & parts shortages resulting in long lead times, and had to write off thousands of laser cut parts and QB's with bad primer. They've always given you a credit for deleted parts that is well below the list price of the part...arguably, they make more money on my kit purchase if I ask them to delete a $1000 part and they give me $700 credit for it. And it doesn't hold them up from shipping...their new policy requires them to have 100% of the parts in stock to ship my kit. What if I want to delete the wheels & brakes, and they happen to have a shortage of wheels and brakes in stock? They could actually ship my kit sooner in that case. And it's not like Van's doesn't have a pretty good idea how many deletions they typically get for cowls, spinners, gear legs, wheels/brakes, corrugated aluminum seatbacks, etc...they have enough order history to plan their inventory needs accordingly.

I get that the 'no deletions' policy simplifies things but the consequences of this change are way bigger than the price increases IMO. I think we're seeing the end of the golden age of homebuilding (2000-2020) where you could get a really good airframe kit at an affordable price for a middle class guy and have flexibility to build the airplane you want, not be forced to just assemble a 100% stock aircraft and pick out the paint and upholstery colors. This is really sad.

You're applying a pretty heavy dose of "forever" on "today". Take a breath, see how it unfolds, de-panic. The last cards are far from played.

...or, ya know, go ahead and panic. Whatever...

 

[N427EF]

From a business owner

Dealing with deletions and special orders in the line up of a well thought out crating and compiling process is a major PITA and most of all a money loosing proposition that the rest of the kit buyers have to subsidize. In other words, Vans has been generous with a small number of custom kits at the expense of the majority who buy kits as is. They might be able to crate 5 kits per day and only one per day that has deletions and special instructions.
It is not much unlike the PITA of having to sell the parts yourself aftermarket and deal with shipping and payment collections except now you have to do it.

For an RV10 they sell engines they can't provide cowls for (with CAI). The only cowl that would work for those engines requires a different spinner.

Who is they? Vans? I don't think "they" sell an engine for which there is no cowl. An aftermarket provider probably but "they" are not Vans.
Vans has always been very frugal and passing the benefits on to his customers and and has been extremely generous and accommodating to his customers. I feel sorry for those who want custom Rvs but no one gets to escaped their financial fiasco unscathed.

 

[czechsix]

You're applying a pretty heavy dose of "forever" on "today". Take a breath, see how it unfolds, de-panic. The last cards are far from played.

...or, ya know, go ahead and panic. Whatever...

No panic here, just spelling out the implications of the 'no deletions' policy, and hoping Van's reconsiders. I will now take a breath and see how it unfolds...

 

[howardtlcc]

Back to my original post!

What I was asking was would Vans want a price increase on the backordered parts? For example, we are still waiting on seats and seat rails? Would they ask for more money to ship the back ordered parts...

 

[Jetmart]

I think on the face of it no deletions sucks however I almost feel embarrassed now for some of the small things I had them delete during my build. It would of been terribly inefficient and costly.

 

[dmattmul]

Flat rate change fee

I think on the face of it no deletions sucks however I almost feel embarrassed now for some of the small things I had them delete during my build. It would of been terribly inefficient and costly.

I was in commodity manufacturing and I understand how this could be inefficient but seems to me by applying a flat rate change fee of $ 1,000 (As Lycoming does when you modify an engine) or even higher would filter out the majority of the nickel and dime changes we requested before. Who would try to save 500 bucks to spend 1,000 ? It might also encourage customers to enter all their kits from the beginning rather than piece meal them in over a couple of years. Surely getting a large order upfront helps with cash flow and order entry costs.

 

[Chrayo]

I don’t think this is about money. It’s about the time and logistics required to special hand select and custom pack everyone’s crate. Vans is in survival mode and could very well cease to exist if they don’t make every change necessary to survive. I was/am months away from making my first Vans kit order so I am very interested in all of this. I see a world where Vans recovers, learns how to run a healthy business and finds a way to offer some customization in a cost effective and profitable way. After all, That is what experimental aviation is all about.

.02

 

[MIKE JG]

I don’t think this is about money. It’s about the time and logistics required to special hand select and custom pack everyone’s crate. Vans is in survival mode and could very well cease to exist if they don’t make every change necessary to survive. I was/am months away from making my first Vans kit order so I am very interested in all of this. I see a world where Vans recovers, learns how to run a healthy business and finds a way to offer some customization in a cost effective and profitable way. After all, That is what experimental aviation is all about.

.02

I think this is pretty close to how it plays out. Right now it's a "fly the airplane" mode of survival for them. Everything else will have to wait. Stop the sinking ship from sinking, get it floating again and underway and then maybe in a year or two, they can work out a process that allows for some customization.

There's always the option to fly Portland, rent a UHaul, drive it to Vans and hand pick and pack what you need and take it home.

 

[lr172]

You're applying a pretty heavy dose of "forever" on "today". Take a breath, see how it unfolds, de-panic. The last cards are far from played.

...or, ya know, go ahead and panic. Whatever...

I agree completely with the other comments about this policy hurting Vans more than it helps them. However, I also agree with Airguy that this will likely change. Let's remember that we have a whole group of new folks rapidly throwing new policies in place to get out of court and back to shipping kits. There is a good chance that once everyone takes a breath and really thinks about these new policies, they will realize what they have done and re-tool. At least if Van himself stays involved. Unsure about everything if he walks away.

Larry

 

[airguy]

Van is 84 years old. At some point he is going to "walk away".

I think his goal here is to leave a stable, thriving company in his wake, while he still can do something about it.

 

[lr172]

Dealing with deletions and special orders in the line up of a well thought out crating and compiling process is a major PITA and most of all a money loosing proposition that the rest of the kit buyers have to subsidize. In other words, Vans has been generous with a small number of custom kits at the expense of the majority who buy kits as is. They might be able to crate 5 kits per day and only one per day that has deletions and special instructions.
.

Sorry, but that doesn't mesh up with the world that we live in. In high school, I worked in a shipping department and every single order was unique in some way. On each pick, I had to think about the impact of multiple boxes on shipping cost, had to mentally arrange the most efficient use of box sizes that were available to me, forced to efficiently utilize the expensive foaming liquid, etc. With no real experience, I was receiving praises from the shipping mgr in a couple weeks. This isn't rocket science. This happens every minute of every day across thousands of shipping departments. Just imagine where Amazon would be today if they only allowed you to select from a pre-determined collection and quantity of products for any given shipment? In today's world, you cannot sustain a business while setting a bunch of limits on how the customer buys products from you.

Shipping a whole FWF kit or one without the cowl is pretty much the same. Use the same crate and just don't put the cowl in it. How hard is that? You can standardize the crate, as well as the layout for parts in that crate for each kit and all we are talking about here is leaving certain parts out of the crate. In my mind, this is easier and cheaper than crating the whole kit. Unclear how this is unfair to other builders. Every parts order is a special order. Therefore you would have to shut down the parts operation to avoid special orders. Parts orders usually have much higher markups, so we have covered any additional overhead involved in their crating.

Every kit has a BOM. You give the BOM to the warehouse guy and he picks all the parts and brings them to the shipping dept. If you have a bunch of deletions, even in a non automated system, you just have the order lady scratch off the deleted items before handing it to the warehouse guy for picking. Again, no major inefficiency here.

 

[airguy]

At least if Van himself stays involved. Unsure about everything if he walks away.

Larry

Van is 84 years old. At some point he is going to "walk away". He already retired once, or tried to.

I think his goal here is to leave a stable, thriving company in his wake, while he still can do something about it.

 

[bertschb]

Vans core business is shipping kits. It is FAAAAAR more cost effective for them to crate up a bunch of kits that are all identical and ready to ship than it is to custom pack each and every kit they sell. No comparison!

Vans is in survival mode. Business is not going to be as usual. As I've stated previously, this new "no change" policy will cost me many thousands of dollars but I fully support it. It makes good business sense. We need Vans to make good business decisions moving forward.

Do you really want them to continue to do business like they did in the past knowing where that got them????

Do I want to pay for wheels/brakes/tires/alternators/fuel pumps/sending units/fuel selector valves/rudder pedals, etc that I won't need and may not be able to sell later? Of course not. But, I'd prefer that over getting nothing if their reorganization fails.

I will continue to support changes Vans is making that helps improve their odds of successfully emerging from Chapter 11. Vans version 2.0 will be different - and it needs to be if you want to keep building/flying.

 

[Overshoot]

Sorry, but that doesn't mesh up with the world that we live in. In high school, I worked in a shipping department and every single order was unique in some way. On each pick, I had to think about the impact of multiple boxes on shipping cost, had to mentally arrange the most efficient use of box sizes that were available to me, forced to efficiently utilize the expensive foaming liquid, etc. With no real experience, I was receiving praises from the shipping mgr in a couple weeks. This isn't rocket science. This happens every minute of every day across thousands of shipping departments. Just imagine where Amazon would be today if they only allowed you to select from a pre-determined collection and quantity of products for any given shipment? In today's world, you cannot sustain a business while setting a bunch of limits on how the customer buys products from you.

Shipping a whole FWF kit or one without the cowl is pretty much the same. Use the same crate and just don't put the cowl in it. How hard is that? You can standardize the crate, as well as the layout for parts in that crate for each kit and all we are talking about here is leaving certain parts out of the crate. In my mind, this is easier and cheaper than crating the whole kit. Unclear how this is unfair to other builders. Every parts order is a special order. Therefore you would have to shut down the parts operation to avoid special orders. Parts orders usually have much higher markups, so we have covered any additional overhead involved in their crating.

Every kit has a BOM. You give the BOM to the warehouse guy and he picks all the parts and brings them to the shipping dept. If you have a bunch of deletions, even in a non automated system, you just have the order lady scratch off the deleted items before handing it to the warehouse guy for picking. Again, no major inefficiency here.

Don’t look at it from an efficiency standpoint. Instead, it likely a way for Van’s to obtain cash from parts that they already have in hand and need to book revenue from. Once the parts in inventory are exhausted, different policy may emerge.

 

[spatsch]

Just two observations after reading the posts:

1. Most people want to replace parts in the FWF kit.
2. The FWF kit is not mandatory (at least it wasn't in the past) to receive a bill of sale.

So if you really only use a handful of parts from the FWF kit then just order them individually in the on line store and be happy.

Oliver

 

[lyosha]

Who is they? Vans? I don't think "they" sell an engine for which there is no cowl. An aftermarket provider probably but "they" are not Vans.

"They" is Vans, which indeed sells engines not only does it not sell the cowls for, but also mounts. There is a third party contractor that does the modification that builders must sell out themselves.

 

[jjmanton]

Just two observations after reading the posts:

1. Most people want to replace parts in the FWF kit.
2. The FWF kit is not mandatory (at least it wasn't in the past) to receive a bill of sale.

So if you really only use a handful of parts from the FWF kit then just order them individually in the on line store and be happy.

Oliver

I think the biggest one is actually the finish kit, not firewall forward. The big ticket items that have alternatives are the windows, brakes, pedals, and cowling.

 

[AeroEngineer]

You're applying a pretty heavy dose of "forever" on "today". [...] The last cards are far from played.

Vans is in survival mode and could very well cease to exist if they don’t make every change necessary to survive. [...] I see a world where Vans recovers, learns how to run a healthy business and finds a way to offer some customization in a cost effective and profitable way.

Right now it's a "fly the airplane" mode of survival for them. Everything else will have to wait. Stop the sinking ship from sinking, get it floating again and underway and then maybe in a year or two, they can work out a process that allows for some customization.

Let's remember that we have a whole group of new folks rapidly throwing new policies in place to get out of court and back to shipping kits. There is a good chance that once everyone takes a breath and really thinks about these new policies, they will realize what they have done and re-tool.

it likely a way for Van’s to obtain cash from parts that they already have in hand and need to book revenue from. Once the parts in inventory are exhausted, different policy may emerge.

I agree. The no-deletions policy is probably not "the new Van's". It's probably a temporary emergency step to make sure that the company is not digging itself deeper into the hole. Once they're out of the red, they will probably try to stop selling parts to customers who don't want those parts...

...within reason. lr172 is right in that kits are already not all identical. You have tailwheel vs nosewheel, tip-up vs slider, options for wheels and brakes and FWF, etc. However: the more you reduce that variability, the less time it will take to package kits, the more it will be possible to put together several IDENTICAL kits in a row, i.e. the lower the cost. Minimizing variability is a way to reduce costs, even if variability will never be zero. I can imagine a more efficient Van's that has the most common deletions available on the order form (e.g. RV-8 engine cowls and gear legs and the other ones mentioned on this thread) but that does not allow deletions beyond those relatively common ones.

It is FAAAAAR more cost effective for them to crate up a bunch of kits that are all identical and ready to ship than it is to custom pack each and every kit they sell. No comparison!

 

[lr172]

Don’t look at it from an efficiency standpoint. Instead, it likely a way for Van’s to obtain cash from parts that they already have in hand and need to book revenue from. Once the parts in inventory are exhausted, different policy may emerge.

while I can agree with that logic, might I suggest a poll on how many builders are waiting on cowls or other finishing kit parts. Allowing deletions on parts that they can't seem to get anways, coupled with a new policy of only shipping 100% complete orders, it would seem that deletions could be a real benefit to speeding up incoming cash.

 

[tfriske]

What I was asking was would Vans want a price increase on the backordered parts? For example, we are still waiting on seats and seat rails? Would they ask for more money to ship the back ordered parts...

Are you paid in full? If so, then I believe your contract is no longer technically “executory” and therefore not subject to being rejected in the Chapter 11 and renegotiated.

 

[howardtlcc]

Are you paid in full? If so, then I believe your contract is no longer technically “executory” and therefore not subject to being rejected in the Chapter 11 and renegotiated.

Yes, kits were paid in full.

 

[Latech15]

Of the three kits that I have received thus far, none have been complete. Some missing items, some with backordered items. Each kit isn’t identical even when they try to make it that way. This seems like a good plan on paper, but in actuality, it won’t gain them the efficiencies that they think it will. It will probably cost them a couple of orders and my guess is that the couple of orders that they lose would have gained them more revenue than and efficiencies that they would gain by implementing this policy.

 

[Steve]

Remember when Burger King's advertising used to say, "Special orders don't upset us?" Where is BK these days?

 

[NavyS3BNFO]

I, for one, never deleted anything form any of my kits through the finishing kit and wasn't planning on deleting anything from the FWF kit. I'm curious to know what % of kits had items deleted?

It'd be a simple exercise for Vans to determine that #. If it's low enough, they could have several 'standard' crated kits on the shelf to expedite shipment and cash flow. The customized kits would take extra time but having a pool of already crated kits ready to go would help with cash flow.

Then again, it's easy for me to Monday morning quarterback. It's also an interesting consulting case to explore. This would make a great Harvard Business School case study someday.

 

[Jslow2]

Will vans not issue a bill of sale if you order finish kit parts individually?

 

[Nick]

Will vans not issue a bill of sale if you order finish kit parts individually?

I would like to know this as well. My -8 Finish kit which has all types of major deletions was originally supposed to ship in September. Now bumped to January. Now... Who knows.

All I really need to finish my -8 is the Engine mount and Canopy glass. Everything else I have from previous builds or outside vendors (Showplanes).

 

[Everwild]

Return Policy?

I wonder if the return policy has changed? Generally, they allow 12 months to return items that are in new, unused condition. While the shipping costs would add to the equation, if they haven't changed the returns policy, they might credit unused items?

 

[Nick]

Just got off the phone with Vans. While he couldn't say definitively, the take away I was given is that existing orders, especially finish kits, would be allowed to keep their deletions.

They don't see the need to sell you a cowl you won't use when it can ship to another customer.

So for now, it appears I won't be forced into a position of cancelling my existence order or buying a full finish kit.

Nothing is final until I get the order revision email, which he inferred could be at least a month.

 

[czechsix]

I wonder if the return policy has changed? Generally, they allow 12 months to return items that are in new, unused condition. While the shipping costs would add to the equation, if they haven't changed the returns policy, they might credit unused items?

I've been wondering the same...and afraid to ask. Seems like if they go through with the 'no deletions' policy, they would likely have to change the return policy as well. Either they will no longer accept returns, or change the restocking fee from 10% to something much bigger (32% seems about right?). Otherwise, my wheels & brakes will be going right back to them and someone will have to go put them back on the shelf. Isn't it easier to just leave the part on the shelf when packing the kit initially, than to get it back later, unbox it, put it back on the shelf, and do the data entry to put it back into inventory? Seems like the deletion up front is more efficient for both Van's and the customer. Either way they have always charged a fee (either you get a credit for deletions that is less than the 'list price', or you pay the 10% restocking fee)...so Van's has always been getting compensated for the extra effort and loss of sale represented by a part whether deleted or returned.

Will be interesting to see what they do with the return policy.

 

[airguy]

Will vans not issue a bill of sale if you order finish kit parts individually?

Sure they will. I did that on my 9A back in 2015. I didn't order the finish kit, just piecemealed the items I wanted.