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Hot Center Console

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dick seiders

Well Known Member
The temps are setting records in Atlanta right now, but when I rested my bare leg against the center console (tunnel) and it was uncomfortably hot I believe there is another cause. It wasn't hot enough to burn the skin, but very uncomfortable. Is this typical? I can't believe I hadn't noticed it the previous two warm seasons I've been flying. I can see that there is no ventilation in the tunnel, and maybe that should be corrected. There was no odor of hot wires or anything like that. Just the metal itself. Has anyone else experienced this? Appreciate any feedback.
Dick Seiders
 
Hot tunnel

Yes, I experienced the same thing. On my first flight, I think I almost burnt my leg. I was concerned that something was wrong, but I couldn't find anything that would cause the heat except the ENGINE and the HOT DAY. Last year our summer in Texas was horrible (oil temps were 230-235 in cruse)and each day I flew I had to have a small wash cloth folded up and placed between my leg and the tunnel. That worked. This year I have installed the carpet interior and the heat is really not an issue any longer.....I hope.
 
Keep in mind that this aircraft was designed in a location that on an average day between June and September does not get over 70 degrees f.

This was meant to be a joke Ha! Ha! ........... :D
 
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Thanks Steve. I am still thinking tho that perhaps introducing a flow of air thru the tunnel might be a good idea. The problem (if indeed it is a problem) is still there even if upholstory has been installed. As a matter of fact the upholstory covering it up may be a greater problem as well. Don't know, but it's an interesting thought.
Appreciate your comment Gasman, but I believe the 12 was designed with all the weather factors (w/i reason) considered as these aircraft are being sold/shipped all over the world.
So am I chasing a non issue here or is it something to discuss and evaluate? I am thinking if the tunnel cover is that hot maybe the temp in there under these conditions could get hot enough to boil the fuel passing thru it? Maybe not, but excess heat is usually considered not a desirable thing regarding wear and tear on components. Maybe a couple louvres in the front floor and a few on the aft inspection plates might reduce the heat somewhat. Just trying to get some creative thinking going on this.
Dick Seiders
 
gasman said:
Keep in mind that this aircraft was designed in a location that on an average day between June and September does not get over 70 degrees f.
Click to expand...

Actually, the current high temp. averages for Aurora Oregon....
June - 73
July - 80
Aug. - 80
Sept - 75
These are averages. Which means there is short intervals of temps. in the 90's during July and August

But I still get your point.

A lot of testing was done in hot temps though.
One test flight trip was even done to Death Valley, CA to confirm hot weather capabilities.
 
Wow, average daily summer temp is 77degrees? I am moving to Aurora. Have you all found Utopia?
 
Dave12 said:
Wow, average daily summer temp is 77degrees? I am moving to Aurora. Have you all found Utopia?
Click to expand...

Before you move, check their "clear sky" days......... plus, I can't afford to live that close to Van's............:eek:
 
Maybe your plane thinks it is a 10??

I suspect it is something to do with the fact the RV line is now into two digit series designators:rolleyes:
 
dick seiders said:
I am thinking if the tunnel cover is that hot maybe the temp in there under these conditions could get hot enough to boil the fuel passing thru it? Maybe not, but excess heat is usually considered not a desirable thing
Dick Seiders
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100% Dick. Fuel and brake lines thru the tunnel are not blessed by the high temps you cite.

Perhaps a very small NACA airscoop and exhaust louver on the bottom centerline would ventilate that region beneficially.

Of course, in winter, the complaints might then be the tunnel is too cold. That could be solved by blocking the airscoop.

Bob Bogash
N737G
 
Mike S said:
Maybe your plane thinks it is a 10??

I suspect it is something to do with the fact the RV line is now into two digit series designators:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Mike this is possible until you have to fill it up then it wants to be a RV12 again.
:rolleyes:
 
Maybe....

NASA515 said:
I agree with you 100% Dick. Fuel and brake lines thru the tunnel are not blessed by the high temps you cite.

Perhaps a very small NACA airscoop and exhaust louver on the bottom centerline would ventilate that region beneficially.

Of course, in winter, the complaints might then be the tunnel is too cold. That could be solved by blocking the airscoop.

Bob Bogash
N737G
Click to expand...

But then you have to consider all of the other circumstances that could be effected by this type of mod.
How would it impact safety in the case of an engine compartment fire, etc.

Personally, I think you would be designing a cure for a problem that doesn't exist (not one that is causing any operational issues anyway).

Example - How hot is the tunnel panels getting anyway?
Just uncomfortable to touch, but not enough to cause a burn?
An uncomfortable surface temp is actually not all that hot.

It was known early on that a fuselage design with a closed center tunnel would result in some elevated temps inside (closed space with no air movement, and hot exhaust and cooling air from the engine compartment, flowing along the outer surface of the belly).

This is just one of the many reasons that a fuel pump was located as close to the fuel tank as possible (and configured to be operating all the time). Pushing fuel vs pulling fuel (particularly when it is getting heated) greatly improves the margin above any likelihood of vapor lock, yet some builders have chosen to install a switch for the electric fuel pump, and only operate it during takeoff and landing. For those airplanes, the heat level within the tunnel area could possibly be a reason for concern. On all others, I don't think the interior temp is going anywhere near what should be a concern for the wiring, fuel and brake lines, etc.
 
Depending on RVP, temps above 100 deg F can cause a vapor lock. More so with MoGas and more again with ethanol. That's way lower than "burn your leg" temps. But, you're right, no problem so far, so maybe this is chasing a ghost. Van did a good job in trying to avoid problems, as you described.

As far as engine fire is concerned, that thin sheet metal skin won't be worth much with or without an air scoop. I have "memorabilia" pieces of big airplane wrecks I've been involved in, and it's always amazed me how fast thick aluminum gets converted into blobs of spatter or just air. It ain't pretty......

Bob Bogash
N737G
 
NASA515 said:
As far as engine fire is concerned, that thin sheet metal skin won't be worth much with or without an air scoop. I have "memorabilia" pieces of big airplane wrecks I've been involved in, and it's always amazed me how fast thick aluminum gets converted into blobs of spatter or just air. It ain't pretty......
Click to expand...

Your right, but what about a fire that is not big enough to send excessive flame/heat onto the under belly, but is sending lots of thick oily smoke? If you are scooping air into the fuselage, you are scooping it into the cockpit (I guarantee the tunnel area is not sealed off from the rest of the cockpit area).

My main point was... Often times builders choose to shift their level of risk in one area, in the interest of improving another (which may be only a perceived risk), without thinking about all of the peripheral factors that may not be immediately obvious.
 
Because of the hot summers we have here in FL, I am installing a cooling fan on my avionics this week. I just happened to think that if you have an aircraft cooling fan with 4 ports, (Aircraft Spruce) perhaps one blast tube could be directed to the interior of your console. Just a thought.
 
Thanks gentlemen. I love the dialogue as well as the various thoughts and ideas. That's what this blog is all about . I agree with Scott that we should never rush into mods that seem obvious as they can make a situation worse than the initial problem. However I also believe we sometimes tend to blow off some seemingly minor issues because of paradigms that perhaps should be looked at with a view to determine if indeed they are without consequence or not. I like Dave's looking at the actual temperature as at least it's a piece of information that may prove beneficial. I think I will check the temp. next time I experience the issue as I don't believe a 100 degree temp. would be uncomfortable, but just warm to the touch. Anyway it's an interesting issue (to me and hopefully other 12 drivers) and maybe we'll collectively come up with a real problem looking for a solution. Sorry for the rambling, but I do like to talk about things in aviation/airplanes.
Dick Seiders
 
Dick,

You are right are target! All of us should not be hesitant to describe a potential issue here on VAF. Most criticisms are directed at the modification proposed (as it may or may not be endorsed by Van's) and NOT directed at poster describing the potential issue or potential problem.

The dialog generated is GREAT! And the proposed solutions may give Van's a good idea. Some of those solutions are NOW incorporated in the later kits.
 
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