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Horizontal Stab- Nose Rivets

R

Rupester

Well Known Member
I need some nifty ideas for getting the forward-most rivets in the center nose rib. I got all energetic and squeezed all the rivets in the inboard and outboard nose ribs first ... now I can't pull the skin back to get to the center rib. I've bought 4 different small bucking bars,but none get in there square to that front rivet. I've already peened over two rivets so far and had to drill out both. Vans says you must start at the nose and work back, so I'm kinduv stymied at the moment. Ideas? :confused:
 
HS rivets

Probably the easiest thing to do is drill out enough rivets on the inboard and outboard ribs so you can get to the center rib. (Go back and do it the 'right' way). You'll get plenty of practice drilling out rivets for numerous reasons...don't ask me how I know :)

Dennis Glaeser
7A Fuselage
 
I haven't got to riveting yet, but during the initial assembly to match drill the holes I had trouble closing the skin around the nose rib to insert clecos. I built an extra jig cradle and positioned it next to the row of holes for nose rib. This squeezed the skin enough to bring the skin up against the rib. Hope this helps.

Jorge Fernandez
N214JL(Reserved)
 
If your 9 is anything like my 7, I believe the plans give you the option of MK319BS blind rivets there. Maybe give a closer look on the plans. I'll just mention that drilling out well set rivets often times makes things worse...ask me how I know :)
 
Rupester said:
I need some nifty ideas for getting the forward-most rivets in the center nose rib. I got all energetic and squeezed all the rivets in the inboard and outboard nose ribs first ... now I can't pull the skin back to get to the center rib. I've bought 4 different small bucking bars,but none get in there square to that front rivet. I've already peened over two rivets so far and had to drill out both. Vans says you must start at the nose and work back, so I'm kinduv stymied at the moment. Ideas? :confused:
Click to expand...

You are using the V blocks that you made to do the original build on the HS, aren't you. They do a pretty good job at holding the skin together. Try wedging some foam between the block and the skin to tighen things up.

Getting a local builder to come on by might be the best fix though. I rebuilt my HS because the skin got dented during a move. Those nose ribs just fell together after I had the practice of building the whole airplane.

It gets much better, don't get frustrated.
 
My problem is not fitting the skin to the ribs. That was no sweat. My problem is the insufficient amount of space for hands and bucking bars all the way forward in the nose at that first rivet. I didn't see anything on my plans offering a blind rivet, though I knew some guys did that on the bottom nose rivet (that's not highly visible once she's completed). I'm thinking the blind option may be my best alternative. Drilling out 10 to 20 perfect rivets in the outer ribs is repugnant beyond words! :eek:

Thanks for the help, guys !!
 
I too had a problem getting a bucking bar in there to buck my very first rivets on an airplane. I finally took an old worn out cold chisel about 1" in diameter, ground an angle on the butt end till I could hold it flush on the end of the rivet. Almost worked great - except for sliding sideways putting a "step" in the bucktail :( . I think I would let it slide, except the next rivet up I set with a gap between the skin and rib :mad: . I'm about to get some experience drilling out rivets!
 
re: gaps in the skin

Everyone talks about putting little grommets over the rivets when you have a little gap you have to contend with (the grommet pushes up on the flange and pulls everything tight while you rivet). No one talks about where to get the grommets, though.

From my R/C flying stuff, I just use a little piece of silicon fuel tubing. You can get it in different sizes at your local hobby shop, and a few bucks will get you enough tubing to do your whole airplane.
 
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Yes, those rivets were charming little buggers. I managed to set them using a small bucking bar from Avery, #615. (see photo at https://www.averytools.com/cart/p-27-bucking-bar.aspx).

First, I covered the bar completely in duct tape except for the small bucking surface on the bar?s left side, facing the camera in the photo. The bucking surface is about 0.3? x 2.0?. Next, I lowered the bar into the HS so that its long edge rested on the inside of the leading edge of the skin, and the small bucking surface was positioned on the bottom rivet. It was necessary to remove the cleco from the 2nd hole to prevent interference. Then I reached WAY down and managed to get a finger grip on the bar, hold it against the rivet, while holding it away from the skin, and holding the rivet gun with my other hand (set at about 35-40 psi). Also, I use a swivel-headed rubber-shrouded flush rivet set on the gun, which makes it much easier to NOT dent the skin.

I started with the center rib, but had the inboard and outboard nose ribs clecoed in place. I also clecoed in the corresponding main ribs to hold things together while I reached in.

I can?t remember for certain, but I think I also used the rubber tube trick mentioned above in jcoloccia?s post. I use rubber vacuum line tubing, cut to length slightly longer than the protruding rivet. Place the piece of tube on the rivet, then push the bucking bar onto the rivet+tube, and the tube presses the rib tightly into the skin.

Not easy, but it can be done. Good Luck!!

John
 
Great idea, John. Something "squishable" like a piece of tubing would be perfect ...better than a grommet, IMHO. I suspect some of those pieces of tubing ... like for 3.5 rivets ... will be pretty dang tiny.
 
It's not my thread, but...

Thanks for the great advice! I'm afraid I wasn't completely candid... After that center nose rib, I ignored the voice in my head saying this wasn't right and went on to install the spar, rationalizing that I would probably do more harm than good drilling out those rivets.
I started with the inboard main rib/shim/spar/nose rib at an angle next to the attach bracket to get what looked to be the toughest rivets out of the way. I have only one bucking bar, which I have since found is twice the size of the ATS bucking bars. It didn't fit in place quite right. Also, it was an awkward position, I was riveting alone, and the single offset set was turning on the head, gouging the rib flange. After the second gouge, I finally told myself no mas untill I get a right angle drill, proper bucking bars, a replacement rib, and a lot more riveting practice. Maybe at the synergy air one day class...
One other thing - any tricks to drilling out a rivet that has swelled some between the skin and rib in such a hard to reach area?
Thanks again!
Johnny
 
Rupester said:
Great idea, John. Something "squishable" like a piece of tubing would be perfect ...better than a grommet, IMHO. I suspect some of those pieces of tubing ... like for 3.5 rivets ... will be pretty dang tiny.
Click to expand...

A small piece of scotchbrite works well for this, you can punch a small whole in the scotchbrite for the rivet. If the rivet misses the whole you can still buck the rivet just fine, it just cuts through the scotchbrite.
 
N674P said:
One other thing - any tricks to drilling out a rivet that has swelled some between the skin and rib in such a hard to reach area?
Johnny
Click to expand...

Usually this is not the problem it may seem. If you drill off the rivet head and then pull it out from the tail, what remains in between layers is so thin that it often breaks off by itself. My experience anyway... Good luck.
 
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