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Here are all my very specific Skyview questions

Bill_H

Bill_H

Well Known Member
Patron
OK, we have seen the panel mockup now. Here are all my very specific Skyview questions!

I have all kits in hand except avionics. I even have the autopilot servos installed (marked "Skyview Ready."). Vans will send you those now, without the $400 AP-74 faceplate, which is not used with the Skyview. My fuselage is complete and I have been running wiring.Have not done canopy, fuel tank, or engine yet.

These questions are from the point of view of building the plane now and expecting to soon order a fully optioned dual-screen Skyview system.

1. Do I go ahead and connect the extra two wires on the ap servos which the plans list as "future" but for which you put on the male-female connectors anyway? If so, do you disconnect any of the others? I ask because they can be hard to disconnect with your hands in a tight spot.

2. I assume the skyview will be bought with its combination antenna-GPS receiver. Correct?

3. I assume this skyview gps antenna/receiver will mount on the antenna tray I have already installed, maybe with some mods to that tray. Correct?

4. I assume that with the skyview gps antenna/receiver installed, there will still be room on the antenna tray for a garmin gps/xm antenna as well. Because I WILL install a Garmin Aera in order to get the XM weather. I figure the Dynon capability for this may lag for a considerable while. I don't mind shelling out for the Aera.

5. I assume the skyview will include the dynon transponder which will mount somewhere behind the panel.

6. I assume that all 3 of the existing control panel aluminum pieces (the ones with instrument cutouts) will be replaced with different ones for the skyview option(s). So I have not bothered with trimming those out. Similarly, the differences might also mean replacement of those two radio stack angles that fit bewhind the panel - so I haven't bothered with those either.

7. I am wondering if there will be more freedom for mounting a Garmin Aera in a way to make it easily removable - to use some aftermarket mount, for example.

8. I am wondering if the skyview will display xm weather data on its screen, if supplied by the separate garmin. I doubt it, at this time. When they develop their own xm weather product, they might make it possible to use a garmin source -or they might not... Would be good to know.

9. I am wondering if the wiring that connected the garmin gps to the Dynon 180 will also work for the skyview, or if adapter cables will need to be built to go from the existing harnesses to the skyview for that or other reasons. (Like feeding the gps-to-elt wire from the skyview)

10.I am wondering (read a rumor) that skyview installation involves one additional wire back to the remote compass. Would SURE like to know now!!! What gauge wire, if true? One wire or more than one?

11. Obviously the garmin com radio is too far in the future to worry about now, and the Van's panel mockup still shows the garmin com radio.

Does anyone have additional questions not covered? More importantly, does anyone have answers? Maybe someone that has already done integration with a skyview or read/understood all their manuals?

Thanks,
Bill H.
 
Spare wires

Question 1:
You could go ahead and connect those two extra wires to the servos now. If it turns out that they should not be connected for the SkyView, you could remove those wires from the connector at the instrument panel end.

Question 10:
A couple of spare wires could come in handy in the future regardless of what they are used for.
Joe
 
Bill_H said:
OK, we have seen the panel mockup now. Here are all my very specific Skyview questions!

I have all kits in hand except avionics. I even have the autopilot servos installed (marked "Skyview Ready."). Vans will send you those now, without the $400 AP-74 faceplate, which is not used with the Skyview. My fuselage is complete and I have been running wiring.Have not done canopy, fuel tank, or engine yet.

These questions are from the point of view of building the plane now and expecting to soon order a fully optioned dual-screen Skyview system.


Thanks,
Bill H.
Click to expand...

Hi Bill,

You have an excellent list of questions, it is a real shame that Van's will not provide any factual answers as there must be 20 of us waiting to order avionics until we can see what the package is and have the answers to your list of questions. I for one am ready to give up on Skyview from Van's as it would seem that they are just not getting on with it for some reason.

It was also interesting to note that they have already made the same mistake on the new electrical panel that they made on the old ones, which is that they have again not included the fuse values on the labeling and will again expect us to mark them with Ptouch labels making what would be a professional looking part look like some home made junk.

I am also betting that they still refuse to provide wiring diagrams with the new package knowing full well that we will have to make many changes over the next several years as Skyview develops and additional options are provided by Dynon. As a group we may wish for our own good to refuse to purchase the Skyview avionics package unless it comes with full aircraft electrical documentation as it will be required by us all very soon as Dynon progresses with more additions.

Best regards,
Vern
 
Keep those answers coming! Dynon, are y'all on the forum? I agree about bad looking labels. I am getting a strip with engraved labels at a local trophy shop for the throttle - choke - cabin heat and N-number. They are cheap with a peel/stick backing. Silver background, black inking. I haven't been thinking about the fuse panel - the original one looked silkscreened to me from some pics. Maybe the new one is just a mockup for that part. I think we might get good support from Dynon on understanding pinouts etc. - they have a forum too that I haven't checked out thoroughly, and they will certainly understand the RV-12's wiring given over 500 of them!
 
Bill_H said:
Keep those answers coming! Dynon, are y'all on the forum? I agree about bad looking labels. I am getting a strip with engraved labels at a local trophy shop for the throttle - choke - cabin heat and N-number. They are cheap with a peel/stick backing. Silver background, black inking. I haven't been thinking about the fuse panel - the original one looked silkscreened to me from some pics. Maybe the new one is just a mockup for that part. I think we might get good support from Dynon on understanding pinouts etc. - they have a forum too that I haven't checked out thoroughly, and they will certainly understand the RV-12's wiring given over 500 of them!
Click to expand...

Hi Bill,

I think the item that we are calling a mockup is the actual unit that was to have been installed in Mitch's Blue demonstrator RV-12 and it just has not yet been accomplished.

I am sad to say that unless things have changed Van's has refused to provide the wiring diagrams to Dynon and a lot of information is collected by sensors then run into Van's magic box where things like required resistors are applied and then on to the Dynon boxes so when we call Dynon for help they tell us to look for a wire from the oil pressure sender connected to a pin on the back of their box per their wiring instructions, but that is not the way it is in the RV-12 so we are both lost and we can not do simple trouble shooting like running new wires direct from the sensor to the Dynon because we would not have all of the items required in the wiring.

We have also never seen an electrical load analysis for the RV-12 so there is no good way to know if a new box can be added safely or if its power requirements can be added to a given circuit.

Lots we need to know and Van's just keeps refusing to provide the data.

Best regards,
Vern
 
splitty said:
Guys lots of these questions can be answered on the Dynon Forum site!
Click to expand...

No the questions are specific to what Van's will provide in the new RV-12 avionics kit and what they list in the plans as permitted options so that the options can be installed while the work is being done instead of after the aircraft has been inspected and certificated.

Best regards,
Vern
 
Vern (and the group), you hit on a question I've been wondering about for some time: the alternator output of the Rotax 912 vs. the electrical load of a fully optioned 2nd gen RV-12 panel. Can anyone comment on just how much additional 12V supply is available from the engine, over and above what the stock gen 1 panel needs and when the autopilot is working? I'm assuming that some additional doodads will be added over time, once inspection is completed, and am wondering how much electrical future-proofing the -12 with the gen 2 panel will have.

Interesting thread, for those of us about to leap into the fray...

Jack
 
Last edited:
vernhendershott said:
No the questions are specific to what Van's will provide in the new RV-12 avionics kit and what they list in the plans as permitted options so that the options can be installed while the work is being done instead of after the aircraft has been inspected and certificated.

Best regards,
Vern
Click to expand...

Sorry Vern I missread your Letter I understand where you are comming from now. Yes of coarse any Updated Skyview installation must be Instigated & approved by Vans to retain its Sports Aircraft Catagory. I hope they Furture proof it for installation of there Transponder & up and comming Avonics package too!

Cheers John H.
 
As near as I can determine, the Rotax 912ULS internal alternator produces 250 Watts, if you need more they have a belt driven one as an option. Wish they used amps so I could tell what that really means.
 
DonFromTX said:
As near as I can determine, the Rotax 912ULS internal alternator produces 250 Watts, if you need more they have a belt driven one as an option. Wish they used amps so I could tell what that really means.
Click to expand...

Amps = Watts/Volts.

If you assume 12 Volts, Amps = 250/12 = ~21

Or, if you assume 14V, then Amps = 250/14 = ~ 18
 
OK, so we have about a 20 amp system. The main fuse required for the skyview is only 5 amps, so even with AP and other stuff, looks like it could probably pull the load OK.
 
hi my 10" skyview uses 3 amps and auto pilot servos use about 1 amp when actually driving so rotax has no problems supplying enough power
 
The existing power supply. D180 and D100 dual-screen option AND Garmin transponder AND Garmin GPS AND optional light kit are OK for the RV12 - since that is a currently sold configuration. The question is what ADDITIONAL current is required by a single Skyview 10" (with GPS receiver) over the D180, what ADDITIONAL is required for the 7" or 10" over the optional D100, what ADDITIONAL current (if any) is required by the Skyview transponder over the Garmin, and how does an ADDITIONAL Garmin GPS (i.e. Aera) factor in given the above?
 
Bill,
A couple other 'assumptions' to consider - after my conversation with Dynon @ SNF: XM weather on the Skyview map by Christmas; a remotely mounted, skyview panel operated com radio before SNF next year.
 
That is good to know. I have a business trip later this month and will be nearby the Dynon HQ. I intend to make arrangements to meet with someone there with my questions. I hope to be flying this summer. I could possibly wait until Christmas for XM weather. Eventually I would like to replace the Garmin com with a navcom including ILS with signal sent to the Skyview. Then a Skyview comm would provide dual coms. AND might trip us over into the need for that extra alternator and probably doing some buss separation rewiring. Hmmm....
 
Scott Hersha said:
Bill,
A couple other 'assumptions' to consider - after my conversation with Dynon @ SNF: XM weather on the Skyview map by Christmas; a remotely mounted, skyview panel operated com radio before SNF next year.
Click to expand...
I'm starting to get a bad an 'all eggs in one basket' feeling about this.
 
Yep! These changes are going a bit beyond what I had hoped for. I didn't want to have a Mode-S transponder and I was hoping to still be able to put an Aera style Garmin in the panel after certification. With the changes in the center stack, the room for the GPS shifted so far up to the top, that I am not sure if I can fit an Airgizmo panel mount in there that could hold an Aera due to slightly different dimension and the release button on the top instead of the side.
With all but the radio being integrated into the Skyview, this unit better never fails ...
 
Bill_H said:
The existing power supply. D180 and D100 dual-screen option AND Garmin transponder AND Garmin GPS AND optional light kit are OK for the RV12 - since that is a currently sold configuration. The question is what ADDITIONAL current is required by a single Skyview 10" (with GPS receiver) over the D180, what ADDITIONAL is required for the 7" or 10" over the optional D100, what ADDITIONAL current (if any) is required by the Skyview transponder over the Garmin, and how does an ADDITIONAL Garmin GPS (i.e. Aera) factor in given the above?
Click to expand...
The D-180 specs claim to need a current of 1.2A @ 12V nominal and a maximum of 2.2A, the Skyview is listed with 3.5A nominal and 5A max. A dual system would already use up half of the alternator's output if both displays are operating at maximum power requirements. This is quite a lot, as you have to run the fuel pump, the radio, the transponder, the lights and maybe slightly charge your main battery after starting the engine.
I am starting to get double thoughts about this Skyview thing ...
 
Air data computer to tail cone

It is my understanding the air data computer will now be mounted in the tale cone where the old magnomter was. Pitot and static line and some more wiring will be required.
 
Isn't that because the ADAHRS has a built-in magnetometer and has to sit in the spot where the separate magnetometer used to sit?
 
MacPara said:
Isn't that because the ADAHRS has a built-in magnetometer and has to sit in the spot where the separate magnetometer used to sit?
Click to expand...

I guess we will just run the new Pitot line out the middle of the instrument panel and straight back through the baggage compartment, drill a hole in the rear of the baggage compartment bulkhead and on back to the ADAHRS as there is no room left in the tunnel where the Static line runs for an additional large length of tubing as all the holes in the bulkheads are full and the nice white plastic clips are all full as well. Should be interesting to see if Van's can come up with a plan that does not involve a major rebuild of the finished aircraft.

Best regards,
Vern
 
With the AHARS in the tailcone, you no longer need the static line into the panel unless you plan to add some equipment that requires a static connection. If you have already run the static line to the panel, it can be used for the pitot line.
 
"Theoretically" you can add another hole (and bushings) right next to those two really-overfilled tunnel holes (those at each fore & aft end of the compartment with the fuel valve) and route another static line through that. "Theoretically" just outboard of it is a fit.

The ideal way to fill holes like this is to put in the big wires first. Waiting until late in the game to add the tail cone and then run the static tube "could" be difficult through those holes now filled with all of the existing wires. Those 2 holes should have been 1 inch, not 3/4! Adding another tube into the system blocks might be a problem. But all this is just theory...
 
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