Help me plan my panel!

[Brantel]

I am going to be mocking up my panel a few times, using the different platforms that I am concidering.

My mission will be an IFR ship capable of filing /G. Good autopilot integration or more capable AP to give equal features, weather and traffic is important as well as not being stuck without a backup in the soup.

Here is my first pass at a GRT based system.

As you can see the equipment list is:

Dual GRT, with weather option & ARINC interface, undecided Sport or Horizon
GRT EIS
TT DFII VSGV
ASI
TT ADI
ALT
CDI/GS
PS AP
430W
SL30
G327
GX96
AFS AOA PRO on windscreen (not show)
ZAON PCAS connected to GRT (not shown)
There will be a strip added at the bottom for switches and other items

Since this AP and the GRT go together like peas and carrots, I will have only a switch to give the AP the choice between GRT or GPS as a source.

I have a few things unsettled if I go this route.

First is how to handle the CDI/GS indicator and it's integration with this system. Its function would be to be a backup to the GRT's HSI and I would have it connected to the SL30. How can this be done in regards to the OBS setting?

Second, Sport or Horizon? Seems the Sport now does everything the Horizon does except it has fewer serial ports and no analog ports. This limits the amount of renduncancy one can have because to have total independance between units, all critical serial data must be connected to both screens. To do what I want on the Sport, some things would be lost if one or the other screen died. How important should this be concidering the equipment and other options shown here?

Third is the weather feature on the GRT, I understand it is slower and has less features than the X86. People who have used both, can you comment on which is better and why?

Fourth is a traffic solution and at this point I only see two things in my price range and that is the Zaon or the mode S transponder. I like that the Zaon works anywhere but when the mode S works, it is more accurate. So what is everyone's thoughts on what to go with? The other question is does the Zaon work with both the Sport and the Horizon?

Fifth is how to handle backup power. I really don't want two main batteries. I will have a handheld Nav/com that can be connected to the external antenna. The ADI, X96 and GRT's will have a backup battery.

Sixth is 3.125 backup instruments or 2.25? If I go with the smaller ones, the CDI/GS and the AP would just swap places and this will give more room at the bottom for other things.

Do I even need the second Nav/Com and indicator?

 

[Mike S]

So, you been looking at my panel????



I would loose the x96------duplication/triplication not needed.

Move the EIS to the radio stack.

Now you have a lot of real estate on the right for a ____________ to fit right in.

You might also play around with the "Flat Pak" auto pilot head, allows a bit of flexability.

I really like the four round gauges under the dual GRT.

 

[AltonD]

I learned something about the ADI that made me decide it was not a good backup/replacement for a turncoordinator: It indicates the change in the rate of turn. NOT the rate of the turn. For example, place the airplane in a constant 2 minute turn and the wings will go level on the ADI because there is no change in rate.

Now that AFS has come out with a arinc 429 adapter, I would not add a CDI if I were to do it all over. I am using a AFS-3500 and will add the adapter. CDI no longer required. I believe if I were to adjust the 430W OBS from the AFS it would mess up the CDI anyway. I'll just make sure I keep them both set the same.

Since you are using a standard Van's panel, where will the switches go?

 

[tacaruth]

Brian,

"Fifth is how to handle backup power. I really don't want two main batteries. I will have a handheld Nav/com that can be connected to the external antenna. The ADI, X96 and GRT's will have a backup battery."

If you loose your main battery, your GNS-430 and SL-30 will go dead. Withoug these, your only navigation will be by VFR GPS. You will have to decide if this is good enough in IFR conditions.

Good Luck!
Tom, RV-7A N175TJ Flying

 

[Brantel]

I learned something about the ADI that made me decide it was not a good backup/replacement for a turncoordinator: It indicates the change in the rate of turn. NOT the rate of the turn. For example, place the airplane in a constant 2 minute turn and the wings will go level on the ADI because there is no change in rate.

Now that AFS has come out with a arinc 429 adapter, I would not add a CDI if I were to do it all over. I am using a AFS-3500 and will add the adapter. CDI no longer required. I believe if I were to adjust the 430W OBS from the AFS it would mess up the CDI anyway. I'll just make sure I keep them both set the same.

Since you are using a standard Van's panel, where will the switches go?

Switches will be under the standard panel on a strip added to the bottom.

I do not think this is correct on the ADI, as long as you are actually turning (not in a slip), it will indicate a turn.

"After reading your message, I believe you may have been misinformed. The gyros in the ADI are rate gyros. They sense only rate of change. When you describe tipping the unit, you momentarily cause a rate change in the gyro. After you leave it on its side, it no longer senses a rate of change, therefore the display returns to level. Think about that motion in an aircraft however, if you put the ADI on it's side, you are obviously in a banked turn. This causes a constant azimuth and roll rate change which would be displayed on the ADI as the angle of bank. I hope this helps you to understand how the ADI works, please let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks!

Lucas Massengale
Technical Support
TruTrak Flight Systems
479-751-0250
866-878-8725
www.trutrakap.com"


The CDI is there for backup in case the screens die. I may drop this because the chances of both screens dying is slim.

 

[Brantel]

Brian,

"Fifth is how to handle backup power. I really don't want two main batteries. I will have a handheld Nav/com that can be connected to the external antenna. The ADI, X96 and GRT's will have a backup battery."

If you loose your main battery, your GNS-430 and SL-30 will go dead. Withoug these, your only navigation will be by VFR GPS. You will have to decide if this is good enough in IFR conditions.

Good Luck!
Tom, RV-7A N175TJ Flying

For regular IFR use of course this is not usable but in an emergency anything I have is usable. The X96 is a great nav tool and would work fine for a non-precision approach if it was all I had left.

That being said, I don't want to be in this situation so I most likely will have at least a backup alternator.

 

[bullojm1]

The CDI is there for backup in case the screens die. I may drop this because the chances of both screens dying is slim.

You can't wire the OBS of two CDI's to one NAV/GPS unit. So, if your GRT's OBS is wired to a NAV unit, the CDI will display as if its OBS is set to what's on the GRT screen. A better way would be to hook the GRT's HSI to the 430 and the SL30 to the CDI.

You might also want to consider getting the 420W (no nav) instead of the 430W. You have the SL30 covering the NAV anyways, and you could save some bucks.

 

[Brantel]

So, you been looking at my panel????

I would loose the x96------duplication/triplication not needed.

Move the EIS to the radio stack.

Now you have a lot of real estate on the right for a ____________ to fit right in.

You might also play around with the "Flat Pak" auto pilot head, allows a bit of flexability.

I really like the four round gauges under the dual GRT.

Looking at lots and lots of panels!

The x96 is there just because I have one and want to include it in the plan.

The vertical real estate on the 7 is limited so thats why I put the EIS over there. Also it really does not need to be in direct line of site. The 7 is so narrow, stuff over there is really not that far away from the left seat.
Not really sure what if anything else I would really want over there as well.

I have printed the flat pack. I like it as well. It just seems odd because it is narrower than the radio stack.

 

[Brantel]

You can't wire the OBS of two CDI's to one NAV/GPS unit. So, if your GRT's OBS is wired to a NAV unit, the CDI will display as if its OBS is set to what's on the GRT screen. A better way would be to hook the GRT's HSI to the 430 and the SL30 to the CDI.

You might also want to consider getting the 420W (no nav) instead of the 430W. You have the SL30 covering the NAV anyways, and you could save some bucks.

Hence the questions about whats the best options for a CDI in this setup. I guess you can if you put in a multipole relay and a switch but is all of this really necessary?

I am definately planning the GRT connected primary to the 430 but I also would like the SL30 connected as well so I can have dual nav capability on the HSI.

Since both screens can show a HSI and would be connected in a redundant fashion, this kind of makes a standalone CDI less of a need so it will most likely get thrown out. If one screen dies, the other could be used.

 

[Rick_A]

A lot like my panel

Your idea is a lot like my panel on the left the radio stack. My AP can be driven from either the GNS480 or the GRT. In retrospect, I sure did not need to put Ray Allen LED's. I'm also going to have an AOA sport on the glare shield.

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

You might also play around with the "Flat Pak" auto pilot head, allows a bit of flexability.

I like where you have the AP - located high on the panel. If you're going to use it a lot, it's nice to have it there.

TODR

 

[BillSchlatterer]

Funny how a lot of 7 panels are looking alike. Must be something to do with the real estate My panel is laid out much like you are describing and here are a couple of my opinion points about the IFR /G panel.

First there really is hard IFR and light IFR. If you're in an RV7, you're in the light IFR category since you don't have deice, prop heat, pitot/static port heat, fuel vent heat, windshield heat, etc. (BTW, hard/light IFR is managed on the ground and not in the air) 95% of your IFR time will be cruising and you will be surprised at how few approaches or even fewer approaches to mins that you actually get to shoot. So few in fact that I would suggest that if that is indicated, you probably need to be somewhere else because you probably haven't done that recently enough to be confortable at it. No kidding, 200 feet for real is a LOT different than the normal 800 foot scud ceiling. (YMMV I'm speaking for myself here ) But assuming that,... here is a $$ question for you about the additional CDI?

Why do you really need/want it? The GRT system has a good HSI with GS indicators, if you are dual GRT with the 430 wired to both screens, you have backup of the HSI iteself since the output for the HSI is independent of the AHRS. If the whole GRT system goes out, you still have a great backup CDI in the 430 screen but without GS indicator. Not sure if the 430W CDI has a GS indicator but it might. Lots of folks forget about the CDI in the Garmin, you can fly a LOC approach with it just as well as with an external OBS.

Next point, assuming you are flying left handed, why put something as important as the Autopilot where you have to reach cross handed or swap hands to get to it. Put the extra OBS (if any) over there and put the AP where you can easily get to it with your right hand just like the radios. You will use it a LOT to set headings, altitudes, and vertical speeds. My IFR time tells me I definitely don't want to reach across to get to the AP, and I don't think you want to be swapping hands in the soup. It would also interupt your scan which isn't good either. My thought is that you shouldn't put anything left of center that you need to get to frequently with your right hand.

Also note that you can back up the Altimeter and Airspeed with the GRT EIS as well as with an steam backup. This would be fine in case you just loose the PFDS which are independent of the EIS. Just another data point.

My panel is a standard size Affordable Panel with the lower switch panel, TT VSVG, 430, etc. I think it has lots of room but I haven't tried to get the new GRT screens in there yet ;-)



Lots of opinions on what a good panel is but the most important one is your own. Make it do what you want to do most often, based on the flying you're likely to do, and your risk tolerance. Fly /G but manage hard IFR on the ground.

Bill S
7a sorta finishing ;-(

 

[Mike S]

I like where you have the AP - located high on the panel. If you're going to use it a lot, it's nice to have it there.

TODR

TODR, thanks, but if the truth is told, that is where I could get it to fit., and why I went to the flat pack.

As they say, sometimes even a blind pig finds an acorn.

 

[Brantel]

Why do you really need/want it? The GRT system has a good HSI with GS indicators, if you are dual GRT with the 430 wired to both screens, you have backup of the HSI iteself since the output for the HSI is independent of the AHRS. If the whole GRT system goes out, you still have a great backup CDI in the 430 screen but without GS indicator. Not sure if the 430W CDI has a GS indicator but it might. Lots of folks forget about the CDI in the Garmin, you can fly a LOC approach with it just as well as with an external OBS.

Next point, assuming you are flying left handed, why put something as important as the Autopilot where you have to reach cross handed or swap hands to get to it. Put the extra OBS (if any) over there and put the AP where you can easily get to it with your right hand just like the radios. You will use it a LOT to set headings, altitudes, and vertical speeds. My IFR time tells me I definitely don't want to reach across to get to the AP, and I don't think you want to be swapping hands in the soup. It would also interupt your scan which isn't good either. My thought is that you shouldn't put anything left of center that you need to get to frequently with your right hand.

All good points from everyone! Thanks for all the input. I have pretty much decided that the extra CDI is out of there and I will be going with the 2.25 backups and put the AP on the right of the bottom row of round steam gauges.

 

[Brantel]

GRT Panel Rev II

Based on feedback, I removed the stand alone cdi/gs indicator and moved the AP next to the stack.

90% sure it will be a Dual Sport GRT at this point because I put together a Dynon list and to get somewhat equal features, the Dynon solution and all the extra's cost about $3K more. Maybe this will change when they release info on there AP. Hurting Dynon is the fact that I have to go with a more expensive AP to get similar features to the GRT/TTDFIIVSGV combo and that I must add a 496 to get a map/weather/traffic right in front of me. Plus for Dynon is the AOA solution is included and they have a battery backup option.

AFS is out of my price range, MGL looks too big even with the Voyager and the Enigma seems short on interfaces.

 

[BillSchlatterer]

Brian, here is another $$ thought. Why not dump the SL30 and go with a SL40? Do you really need a backup VOR? Seems like that's about $1,800 more for the VOR. Your primary will normally be the 430W and it gives you everything you need on a ILS including DME, the VNAV GPS approaches will be better than an ILS if they are available.

Nothing wrong with the SL30 but if you're looking for dollars for other options, this is a place to look. Other than loss of the primary ILS, (happens but rare) there just isn't much practical need for the 2ed VOR with a 496 in the panel.

The 496 is easily your backup for NAV, works nicely for crosscheck on the ILS and it could be wired into the system as well. However it is limited to "simulated" LOC approachs,...it's not legal to shoot approaches with the 496 but it does work in a pinch. For $500(?) you could get another IFR Internal GPS for the GRT system but then you would have three GPS units on board, kinda overkill.

If money isn't an object, the SL30 is great but how often would you really use the 2ed VOR? Keep the 496 with weather just like you have it. That way if you fly with friends, you can pull it and take WX with you,... it's pretty cool and makes you feel naked when you fly without it. I fly a 396 with WX and wouldn't leave home without it! Just too much info at the fingertips!

My favorite "must have" is an Autopilot with Altitude Preselect and Capture, I would much rather upgrade to that than spend the bucks on an extra hole filler ;-)

Picking the panel is a lot of fun but it does make you scratch your head some.

Good Luck
Bill S

 

[Brantel]

Bill,

Still trying to figure out if I want the SL30 or not. I mostly want it for cross fixes on approaches that have them as part of the approach. The other thing is for backup to the 430W.

I currently have a 296 and in this setup would plan on using the XM option on the GRT. Someday I will most likely upgrade it to a 496 but with this system, it may be a while because it is really not needed.

The GRT with the DFII VSGV can do altitude select and capture. They play together real nice! But hey, you know that already....

One interesting thing about redundancy on the Sport is that the Sport does not have any of the analog inputs that allow the Horizon to have full functionality from the 430 to both screens if one blinks out. On the Sport, if the panel dies that has the ARINC interface on it, the other panel will not have VNAV or VLOC signals and will have only GPS NAV to drive the HSI.

Same goes for other data items like the EIS system. The Sport does not have as many serial ports as the Horizon. But the Horizon uses one of its 6 ports for the AHRS, the Sport does not.

So if I drop the SL30, I can upgrade to the Horizon and add an Icom 210 and break about even.

Is the full VNAV & VLOC redundancy on both screens worth the extra $1550 to move up to the Horizon?

 

[RudiGreyling]

Hi Brian,

I have just laser cut my panel a test sample, and learned one or 2 things you should also consider, for the actual fitting.

1) I don't know which canopy you've got, but with the tip-up canopy, the tip-up re-inforcement 'ribs' takes away +/- 2" all the around top curve of the REAR sub panel, and it tapers away coming toward the main panel.

Watch out for that on any LONG avionics that might interfere with the tip up canopy, and or tip-up jettision mechinism if you fit it.

I don't know how deep that EFIS on your top left corner is, but check it out.

2) Check also your rear panel clearences, the rear panel is not as tall, it is shorter on the bottom, and you don't want to put any long avionics right on the bottom lip, losing the rear panel strenght.

Kind Regards
Rudi

 

[Brantel]

Really need the backups with this system?

Been thinking about the Dual GRT Sport with the AHRS in each screen.

With this system, since it has a dual AHRS's which constantly cross check themselves and if one dies the other takes over and feeds both screens.

So with this in mind, I basically already have two complete EFIS systems so do I really need these backup instruments?

 

[Sid Lambert]

You and I are about the same place in the project and have the same mentality towards the panel.

I think GRT would like for you to have the analog backup gauges but I wonder if they really add any safety to the airplane. At that point you would have 4 systems to get you to the ground. (GRT 1, GRT 2, Steam & AP) I don't plan on flying IMC much but would like to have a small safety net in case I'm forced to do it.

 

[Mike S]

So with this in mind, I basically already have two complete EFIS systems so do I really need these backup instruments?

A question only you can answer.

What is your comfort level with trusting your life to computers????

Although you have two "complete" EFIS systems, do you have two complete electrical systems??

Just a little food for thought.

Good luck.

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

Bill,

Still trying to figure out if I want the SL30 or not. I mostly want it for cross fixes on approaches that have them as part of the approach. The other thing is for backup to the 430W.

I currently have a 296 and in this setup would plan on using the XM option on the GRT. Someday I will most likely upgrade it to a 496 but with this system, it may be a while because it is really not needed.

How many different NAV sources do you want or need? The 430W is your primary for IFR. Although it has two sensors (VOR/LOC/GS and GPS), it's really one box and has a single point of failure, so we need backup.

If this goes out, what do you want to use? You could have a secondary IFR NAV source, either for just enroute or both enroute and approach. SL30 provides both enroute and approach IFR guidance, at least to airports with ILS, LOC or VOR approaches and is fully IFR certified and legal. It will integrate well with the GRT system. You need a second comm radio anyway.

Another option is a second 430W - expensive.

Third option is the GRT WAAS module. I'm not sure if it would be approved for enroute IFR navigation, but it's clear that it can't legally be used for IFR approaches.

Your G296 probably provides enough accuracy for IFR enroute and approaches, but isn't legal. However, it does have an internal battery backup and that's got to be good for something.

So, I suppose it comes down to "how much is it worth to you to have redundant IFR approach capability?" Either the GRT or G296 GPS would be able to get you down in a pinch, but it wouldn't be totally legal. If you just want something to back-up / reality check the 430W, then the G296 or GRT GPS should be able to do that for you. If you really want overkill and never want to be without legal IFR guidance, go with the SL30 and either GRT GPS or G296.

TODR

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

So, you been looking at my panel????

Hey, what's the rocker to the left of the AP for? Is that for AP NAV source select?

TODR

 

[Mike S]

Hey, what's the rocker to the left of the AP for? Is that for AP NAV source select?

TODR

Yes, "GPS Main", and "GPS aux"

The internal GRT unit is the main input through the arinc module, the AvMap provides backup. It is also wired to go through the arinc.

I think---------

Hopefully this all works as planned, real steep learning curve on this electronics stuff. Luckily the good folks at GRT are patient with me

 

[Brantel]

New Layout Based on Dynon

Since Dynon shook up the experimental efis/em/ap market a few days ago by announcing the new AP and its features/pricing, I decided to take a new look at what a panel based on there system would look like for me and how would it compare in cost and features.

Here is my first pass at this panel. Keep in mind that switches, lights, and other aux. items are not shown as this is just a concept. I will be adding at least an inch maybe more to the bottom of the stock panel.

Equipment list:

Backup instruments are:
2-1/4" ASI, TT ADI, & ALT - Backup if everything dies, ADI will have a battery and I will most likely add a stick on slip/skid ball thingy below it.

G496, Will have a switch to transfer GPS nav info going into the HS34 from the G496 or the G430W.
The G496 will be serving as my moving map, weather, terrain/obstacle, and traffic interface.
The G496 will be connected to the G430W for crossfilling the flight plan and will also be connected to a ZAON unit for the traffic.

Dynon (backup batteries included):

Efis, EM, and HSI
One D180 for EFIS and EM information
One D10A for redundance EFIS and extra screen space without taking up tons of panel space
The layout gives redundancy and versatile screen options. I can display EFIS on either screen, EFIS and EM on the 180, EFIS and HSI on the 180, EFIS on the D10A, EM on the D10, or HSI on the D10A.

The Dynon also gets me the AOA for included for no extra charge.

The Dynons will be connected to the HS34 interface for connectivity to all the nav sources.

The Dynon EFIS will also be connected to the AP76 unit and this will serve as the AP control head for a full featured (and then some) dual axis AP that can do about anything under the sun. When connected to the G430W, the 496 or the SL30, most approaches, holds, DME arcs, VOR courses, ect can be flown fully coupled in both the horizontal and vertical axis. When the G430W is the source for GPS data, the AP will be using the GPS steering commands and should accurately fly holds, arcs, etc. with great precision.

I will most likely be using either a Garmin or PSE audio panel and don't know which one I will use at this time. The MB reciever of the audio panel will also be connected to the HS34 for display on the EFIS's.

The G430 will be the heart of the system if I can figure out a way to afford one. This thing offers the best bang for the buck and seems to be the cornerstone for a good IFR setup.

The SL30 will provide backup com, second VOR, and backup ILS capability etc. The Dynons can use the monitor feature of the SL30 to let you know the radial you are on to the standby station. This is almost as good as having a third VOR for free. The HSI of the Dynon will also decode the identifier and display that on the HSI.

Transponder does the transponder thing.

How does all of this look? Am I off base on the thought path?

Dual EFIS,
EM,
EHSI,
Backup primary flight instruments,
Moving Map,
Traffic that works anywhere,
XM weather,
Redundant GPS nav sources
Do all G430W,
Backup Com and VOR,
Self contained backup power for critical items,
Sweet full featured and then some AP

What else could someone ask for in a /G IFR (reasonable single engine, no icing) ship?

 

[Dynon]

Brian asked me to comment on the panel:

First, no need for a switch between the 430 and the 496. The HS34 can take in both at the same time and use the "NAV SRC" Button to switch between them.

Only other comment is that it's a lot of backup (which is never a bad thing, of course). You have two EFIS units in there, each with an internal battery, so main electrical failure isn't an issue. Your mechanical airspeed and altimeter are just as reliant on pitot and static as the EFIS units are, so the only thing you are backing up against is a totally independent failure of both EFIS units.

You'll want to ask TruTrak about what inputs the ADI needs (GPS, pitot, airspeed) to work properly to see if it fits your needs as a full electrical failure / iced pitot backup.

Besides that, the Dynon EFIS units should be able to interface with all the equipment you have their nicely. You may find yourself showing the EMS on the D10A and the HSI next to the EFIS on the D180, but we fully support that and you can decide once you are flying what screens you like the best.

 

[Piloto.Mendes]

Since Dynon shook up the experimental efis/em/ap market a few days ago by announcing the new AP and its features/pricing, I decided to take a new look at what a panel based on there system would look like for me and how would it compare in cost and features.

Here is my first pass at this panel. Keep in mind that switches, lights, and other aux. items are not shown as this is just a concept. I will be adding at least an inch maybe more to the bottom of the stock panel.

Equipment list:

Backup instruments are:
2-1/4" ASI, TT ADI, & ALT - Backup if everything dies, ADI will have a battery and I will most likely add a stick on slip/skid ball thingy below it.

G496, Will have a switch to transfer GPS nav info going into the HS34 from the G496 or the G430W.
The G496 will be serving as my moving map, weather, terrain/obstacle, and traffic interface.
The G496 will be connected to the G430W for crossfilling the flight plan and will also be connected to a ZAON unit for the traffic.

Dynon (backup batteries included):

Efis, EM, and HSI
One D180 for EFIS and EM information
One D10A for redundance EFIS and extra screen space without taking up tons of panel space
The layout gives redundancy and versatile screen options. I can display EFIS on either screen, EFIS and EM on the 180, EFIS and HSI on the 180, EFIS on the D10A, EM on the D10, or HSI on the D10A.

The Dynon also gets me the AOA for included for no extra charge.

The Dynons will be connected to the HS34 interface for connectivity to all the nav sources.

The Dynon EFIS will also be connected to the AP76 unit and this will serve as the AP control head for a full featured (and then some) dual axis AP that can do about anything under the sun. When connected to the G430W, the 496 or the SL30, most approaches, holds, DME arcs, VOR courses, ect can be flown fully coupled in both the horizontal and vertical axis. When the G430W is the source for GPS data, the AP will be using the GPS steering commands and should accurately fly holds, arcs, etc. with great precision.

I will most likely be using either a Garmin or PSE audio panel and don't know which one I will use ast this time. The MB reciever of the audio panel will also me connected to the HS34 for display on the EFIS's.

The G430 will be the heart of the system if I can figure out a way to afford one. This thing offers the best bang for the buck and seems to be the cornerstone for a good IFR setup.

The SL30 will provide backup com, second VOR, and backup ILS capability etc. The Dynons can use the monitor feature of the SL30 to let you know the radial you are on to the standby station. This is almost as good as having a third VOR for free. The HSI of the Dynon will also decode the identifier and display that on the HSI.

Transponder does the transponder thing.

How does all of this look? Am I off base on the thought path?

Dual EFIS,
EM,
EHSI,
Backup primary flight instruments,
Moving Map,
Traffic that works anywhere,
XM weather,
Redundant GPS nav sources
Do all G430W,
Backup Com and VOR,
Self contained backup power for critical items,
Sweet full featured and then some AP

What else could someone ask for in a /G IFR (reasonable single engine, no icing) ship?

That's a nice, reliable and clean design for a IFR panel.

Congrats!!

 

[Ironflight]

Upper/Lower panel real estate

You might want to consider swapping the 496 and the D180 - I find the bottom of the panel harder to see than you might expect - it is highly dependent on your personal seating position and is very hard to predict in the building phase when you don't have seat cushions, etc. You might try sitting in a few similar planes that are completed to see how your personal sight lines work.

Paul

 

[Brantel]

You might want to consider swapping the 496 and the D180 - I find the bottom of the panel harder to see than you might expect - it is highly dependent on your personal seating position and is very hard to predict in the building phase when you don't have seat cushions, etc. You might try sitting in a few similar planes that are completed to see how your personal sight lines work.

Paul

Thanks Paul,

I have been switching them back and forth on the mockup trying to decide. I have a friend who you met while here in K town that has his 296 above the D180 and it works for him. He is fairly tall. I will ask him if he had it to do it over, would he put it on top or on bottom.

I am only 5'9" so it makes it tough to decide on that aspect.

Thanks again!

 

[Scott DellAngelo]

Since you're asking for opinions I like your Dynon panel but would ditch the 430 unless you actively fly lots of IFR and therefore know you will truly use it based on looking in your logbook. For 90%+ of your flying I bet you would never miss it. The SL30 acts basically like a dual nav/com and in the real world controllers are going to let you fly enroute with a non-IFR GPS anyways. So you cannot do GPS approaches but if the weather is really IFR I bet you are probably landing somewhere with an ILS anyways. Just trying to save you $6k+ and some complexity. You could always leave space and add after you are flying if you really felt limited without it. Would pay for lots of gas.

Scott
RV-9A sold, wanting to build a Rocket

 

[Brantel]

Thanks, dynonsupport!

I did not know if I would have enough inputs on the HS34 to have two GPS serial, GPS ARINC, ILS/VOR ARINC and an SL30 serial all connected at once. If I can, thats even better because one less switch to have on the panel! Or does the 430 not need to be connected to a serial port as long as the ARINC lines are connected? If only connected via ARINC, will all the features (fuel computer, winds aloft etc.) that rely on GPS data work without having to also have the 496 connected and running?

Can't stand to not have independant backups. This is just a personal thing. Never know when a software glitch may pop up.

The ADI uses static and pitot (for AS warning, I don't think it needs pitot for anything else but I will check with TT) and GPS. I will have both the 430 and 496 connected with a switch to pick the GPS source for it.

I think having the ability to switch the EM and the HSI positions will be great as well. Not sure how I will like it best. Maybe one way for enroute and another for approaches.

Thanks!

Brian asked me to comment on the panel:

First, no need for a switch between the 430 and the 496. The HS34 can take in both at the same time and use the "NAV SRC" Button to switch between them.

Only other comment is that it's a lot of backup (which is never a bad thing, of course). You have two EFIS units in there, each with an internal battery, so main electrical failure isn't an issue. Your mechanical airspeed and altimeter are just as reliant on pitot and static as the EFIS units are, so the only thing you are backing up against is a totally independent failure of both EFIS units.

You'll want to ask TruTrak about what inputs the ADI needs (GPS, pitot, airspeed) to work properly to see if it fits your needs as a full electrical failure / iced pitot backup.

Besides that, the Dynon EFIS units should be able to interface with all the equipment you have their nicely. You may find yourself showing the EMS on the D10A and the HSI next to the EFIS on the D180, but we fully support that and you can decide once you are flying what screens you like the best.

 

[N941WR]

Brian,

I agree with Paul, swap the 496 and D180 and try to line up the D180 w/ the D10 to simplify your scan.

Airgizmo makes two angle adapters that you might wish to look at. The cost is around $25, if I remember correctly. One angles horizontally and the other vertically. My 496 is at the top of the radio stack and is angled towards the pilot. The other one allows you to mount the 496 low in the panel and tilt it up towards you.

As others have said, the 496 has the entire North American approach database in it so it makes a great backup. No need for a second alternator or battery with that and the two Dynon's in the panel.

One other very nice advantage to the 496 is that when you get to your destination, you can pop it out and use the road database to find your destination.

One other thing, with both the D180 and the D10 EFIS's installed, you can drop the three instruments on the left. Tertiary redundancy is a bit much, even by my standards.

 

[CNEJR]

I am with Paul, I would ( and did) flip the EFIS with the 496, and ditch the steam.

 

[Capflyer]

Brian,

Did not read through everyone's comments but here is my opinion. I would do it the same way over again because I have everything I need for full IFR. Here is a picture of my panel last year before I started flying. Been having too much fun since to take a recent photo.

If you can find a GNS480...grab it as they have been discontinued. It blows away the 430W/530W's. It is an awesome machine/flight management system. No need for an SL30 because the 480 gives you the back-up radial when you put the back-up VOR freq in monitor mode. You do not need a CDI as you get that in the GRT along with glideslope. The TT turn & bank insturment works fine for a back-up and has the inclinometer built in. WX, terrain, and traffic can all be seen in the GRT. Hard to see but the USB ports for the EFIS are to the right of the EIS and under the ELT remote switch. You will want to keep the EIS in the panel. I start my engine then turn on the avionics and EFIS.

Two batteries or one with two alternators should be considered for IFR.

No need in my opinion for a b/u airspeed indicator as you will have ground speed on the gps.

You really do not need the X86...they look awful in all panels. I keep my old 196 in its pouch for back-up and haven't had to use it yet.

I have run all types of approaches and find my instrumentation to be better than anything else out there without sensory overload. How many moving maps do you really need. I can get 3 at one time if I want.

Stay with the smaller gauges, the look much better in the panel and keeps it clean.

Nothing against Dynon or AFS or Chelton or any of the others but the GRT is fabulous and does everything you can think of plus more. I only wish I had newer high res units. They also come with dual AHRS now.

The integration of the 480, TT DFII VSGV, and the EFIS is like they are all one unit.

I also have my sticks wired to flip/flop my comm1 freq and VOR freq, AP control wheel steering & disconnect button, PTT, flip/flop comm1 & comm2, flaps and trims. HOTAS for approaches.....makes it like childs play.

Good luck with the planning. Its one of the fun parts.