GRT TRIG Communication Error/fail with HXr EFIS

[Denman]

Any help or suggestions appreciated!

I've been working at the wiring of my 6 for a while now and even though I'm closer there continues to be one persistent problem that I' now turning to the forums for any suggestions for solving.

I have the GRT HXr EFIS with the Trig TY 91 radio and the GRT adapter between between the two. A fairly simple wiring job, two wires from the radio to the adapter, two wires from the adapter to the EFIS. Those two wires are the communication path between the radio and EFIS; and the radio can be controlled through the EFIS without a control head. These two wires have been checked many times, they are pinned correctly. The radio was sent off and tested, and sent back with confirmation that it's functional; power to the radio is confirmed, along with the correct grounding. The Adapter is functional and communicating with the EFIS, confirmed by GRT. Continuity has been checked on all wires while pinned in the Dsubs and there are no issues there.

I am at a loss at this point. I've been talking with GRT to find an answer or any suggestion of what to look for to solve the issue but no luck so far.

If anyone has any ideas, or come across this before, or has any info or suggestions of what to check, all are appreciated.

Den

 

[Isaac]

Any help or suggestions appreciated!

I've been working at the wiring of my 6 for a while now and even though I'm closer there continues to be one persistent problem that I' now turning to the forums for any suggestions for solving.

I have the GRT HXr EFIS with the Trig TY 91 radio and the GRT adapter between between the two. A fairly simple wiring job, two wires from the radio to the adapter, two wires from the adapter to the EFIS. Those two wires are the communication path between the radio and EFIS; and the radio can be controlled through the EFIS without a control head. These two wires have been checked many times, they are pinned correctly. The radio was sent off and tested, and sent back with confirmation that it's functional; power to the radio is confirmed, along with the correct grounding. The Adapter is functional and communicating with the EFIS, confirmed by GRT. Continuity has been checked on all wires while pinned in the Dsubs and there are no issues there.

I am at a loss at this point. I've been talking with GRT to find an answer or any suggestion of what to look for to solve the issue but no luck so far.

If anyone has any ideas, or come across this before, or has any info or suggestions of what to check, all are appreciated.

Den

I experienced a similar problem with the connections between a Dynon EFIS and Garmin GTR-200 com. The RS-232 serial port wiring connections were correct and pin to pin wiring checked out properly but the EFIS could not tune the radio. When all else failed it was suggested to run new wires between the units. That's when I discovered that the insulation on one of the wires had been inadvertently crushed by the metal back shell of the GTR-200 and was shorted to ground. My suggestion is to use your ohm meter on each pin of the subject wires and make sure one isn't shorted to ground.

 

[BobTurner]

1. Note there was an adaptor change in 2021. Are you using the right instructions?
2. There must be more than four wires. Signal wires, Power, ground, plus one pin needs to be grounded to turn on the power.

 

[Mike S]

plus one pin needs to be grounded to turn on the power.

I seem to recall I had a similar issue.

 

[clam]

In addition to the above, check baud rate including input and output.

 

[pauldan181]

I had a similar problem, my HXr quit communicating with my Trig transponder. I had assembled the Dsub connector with the wrong hardware and thought it was tight but eventually it moved and the connection was lost.

 

[Denman]

I experienced a similar problem with the connections between a Dynon EFIS and Garmin GTR-200 com. The RS-232 serial port wiring connections were correct and pin to pin wiring checked out properly but the EFIS could not tune the radio. When all else failed it was suggested to run new wires between the units. That's when I discovered that the insulation on one of the wires had been inadvertently crushed by the metal back shell of the GTR-200 and was shorted to ground. My suggestion is to use your ohm meter on each pin of the subject wires and make sure one isn't shorted to ground.

Ok, dumb question. If it is shorted to ground how would I tell? Would continuity still show?

 

[Denman]

1. Note there was an adaptor change in 2021. Are you using the right instructions?
2. There must be more than four wires. Signal wires, Power, ground, plus one pin needs to be grounded to turn on the power.

It's the new adapter with the latest sofeware, along with the newest pinout diagrams. There are a TX and RX wires going from the radio to the adapter and then from the adapter to the EFIS. In the adapter there is power and ground. I can see that the adapter is functioning and communicating to the EFIS and GRT confirmed this as well. The single ground for power on is done at the radio (pin 13), I thought I solved it yesterday when I read that in the instructions...but it was there and the continuity was confirmed.

 

[Denman]

I seem to recall I had a similar issue.

The one pin to be grounded was at the radio. Or, did you also have one at the adapter? I'm emailing back and forth with GRT so will check on this as well.

 

[Denman]

In addition to the above, check baud rate including input and output.

The baud rate is correct at 9600. I triple checked that one yesterday and sent screen shots to GRT when I working on it last Aug. I took a break to paint the 6 before winter hit.

 

[lr172]

Any help or suggestions appreciated!

I've been working at the wiring of my 6 for a while now and even though I'm closer there continues to be one persistent problem that I' now turning to the forums for any suggestions for solving.

I have the GRT HXr EFIS with the Trig TY 91 radio and the GRT adapter between between the two. A fairly simple wiring job, two wires from the radio to the adapter, two wires from the adapter to the EFIS. Those two wires are the communication path between the radio and EFIS; and the radio can be controlled through the EFIS without a control head. These two wires have been checked many times, they are pinned correctly. The radio was sent off and tested, and sent back with confirmation that it's functional; power to the radio is confirmed, along with the correct grounding. The Adapter is functional and communicating with the EFIS, confirmed by GRT. Continuity has been checked on all wires while pinned in the Dsubs and there are no issues there.

I am at a loss at this point. I've been talking with GRT to find an answer or any suggestion of what to look for to solve the issue but no luck so far.

If anyone has any ideas, or come across this before, or has any info or suggestions of what to check, all are appreciated.

Den

The adapter needs to receive and process messages from the EFIS, convert them to something the trig understands and then send them to the trig. The fact that EFIS can communicate with the adapter does not necessarily mean that the adapter can properly translate the message, nor that it can communicate with the trig. The health of this adapter would be the next thing I checked.

If GRT confirmed that the adapater is communicating, this is not a power or ground issue in the adapter. The adapter needs power to communicate with the EFIS and GRT has confirmed that replies are going back to the EFIS is a confirmation that power is not the issue. WIth that said, the power for the trig has to pass through that adapter, so it makes sense to confirm that those pins are not open inside the adapter via a VOM.

Larry

 

[Denman]

The adapter needs to receive and process messages from the EFIS, convert them to something the trig understands and then send them to the trig. The fact that EFIS can communicate with the adapter does not necessarily mean that the adapter can properly translate the message, nor that it can communicate with the trig. The health of this adapter would be the next thing I checked.

If GRT confirmed that the adapater is communicating, this is not a power or ground issue in the adapter. The adapter needs power to communicate with the EFIS and GRT has confirmed that replies are going back to the EFIS is a confirmation that power is not the issue. WIth that said, the power for the trig has to pass through that adapter, so it makes sense to confirm that those pins are not open inside the adapter via a VOM.

Larry

This is sounding like new territory for me. The adapter receives it's power from the trig radio (this was an update in 2022). In the last sentence you said that "it makes sense to confirm that those pins are not open inside the adapter via a VOM." what is VOM?

 

[jclark]

This is sounding like new territory for me. The adapter receives it's power from the trig radio (this was an update in 2022). In the last sentence you said that "it makes sense to confirm that those pins are not open inside the adapter via a VOM." what is VOM?

Try "Volt-Ohm-Meter".

 

[Mike S]

The one pin to be grounded was at the radio. Or, did you also have one at the adapter? I'm emailing back and forth with GRT so will check on this as well.

The adapter is mounted directly to the radio------looks like an extra sized D sub shell. No separate ground wire at the radio.

 

[Denman]

The adapter is mounted directly to the radio------looks like an extra sized D sub shell. No separate ground wire at the radio.

Thanks Mike. The adapter used to be mounted directly to the radio, but GRT changed that a few years ago and they mounted separately now. This means running four separate ground wires to the radio. One of the four needs to be on pin 13 for turning on the trig and for it to remain on. (at least this my understanding of it all at this point.)

Of course, I could be wrong.....and given the track record of GRT equipment (being good) and my limited experience, this is likely. I just need to find what I've done wrong.

 

[Mike S]

Thanks Mike. The adapter used to be mounted directly to the radio, but GRT changed that a few years ago and they mounted separately now.

In that case, I am not able to offer any useful suggestions.........

 

[h&jeuropa]

It appears there should be four wires on the GRT connector going to the TY91, GRT pin 2 to TY pin 3, GRT pin 3 to TY pin 4, GRT pin 10 to ground, GRT pin 11 to TY pin 12. The first two are the communication lines. The last is 12 volt to the adapter from the 12 v power supply in the TY. The third is ground for the adapter and as suggested by the GRT manual this should be where all your avionics grounds are located.

In the TY install manual, TY pin 13 is used to control the TY power supply. TY pin 13 must be grounded to turn on the power supply in the radio which in turn provides power to TY pin 12 the power for the adapter. Trig provides for this in their remote control head.

If you have a separate power switch for the 12v to the TY, supplying 12 v to TY pin 24 or 25, then you can connect TY pin 13 to ground permanently and the TY will be controlled by the power switch.

If you have the TY powered from a avionics bus, supplying 12 v to TY pin 24 or 25, connecting pin 13 to ground will cause the TY to power up when the avionics bus is on.

If you want to have 12 v on the TY continuously, you run 12 volts to TY pin 24 or 25, ground to pin 9, 19 or 22 and control whether the TY is energized by grounding TY pin 13.

Hope this helps.
Jim Butcher

 

[Denman]

It appears there should be four wires on the GRT connector going to the TY91, GRT pin 2 to TY pin 3, GRT pin 3 to TY pin 4, GRT pin 10 to ground, GRT pin 11 to TY pin 12. The first two are the communication lines. The last is 12 volt to the adapter from the 12 v power supply in the TY. The third is ground for the adapter and as suggested by the GRT manual this should be where all your avionics grounds are located.

In the TY install manual, TY pin 13 is used to control the TY power supply. TY pin 13 must be grounded to turn on the power supply in the radio which in turn provides power to TY pin 12 the power for the adapter. Trig provides for this in their remote control head.

If you have a separate power switch for the 12v to the TY, supplying 12 v to TY pin 24 or 25, then you can connect TY pin 13 to ground permanently and the TY will be controlled by the power switch.

If you have the TY powered from a avionics bus, supplying 12 v to TY pin 24 or 25, connecting pin 13 to ground will cause the TY to power up when the avionics bus is on.

If you want to have 12 v on the TY continuously, you run 12 volts to TY pin 24 or 25, ground to pin 9, 19 or 22 and control whether the TY is energized by grounding TY pin 13.

Hope this helps.
Jim Butcher

I have the four wires going from the GRT adapter to the TY, pinned as you outlined.

I have the TY Pin 13 direct to the ground block (the same ground block that all grounds are wired to. With the GRT adaptor showing communication to the EFIS (confirmed in the EFIS and the counter is ticking away) this would confirm that power is coming from the TY to the adapter (also checked via volt meter.)

I have power through larger gauge wire from a switch connected to the main bus routed to the TY then split to two smaller gauge wire and pinned to 24 and 25 on the TY (a suggested redundancy.) This is why I choose to permanently PIN 13 to the main ground block.

I have also ground pins 9, 19, and 22 to the ground block. Could this be the issue? I grounded both pin 13 and the other three ground pins on the TY?

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions and questions on how the wiring has been done. All super helpful!!

Dennis

 

[Denman]

I have the four wires going from the GRT adapter to the TY, pinned as you outlined.

I have the TY Pin 13 direct to the ground block (the same ground block that all grounds are wired to. With the GRT adaptor showing communication to the EFIS (confirmed in the EFIS and the counter is ticking away) this would confirm that power is coming from the TY to the adapter (also checked via volt meter.)

I have power through larger gauge wire from a switch connected to the main bus routed to the TY then split to two smaller gauge wire and pinned to 24 and 25 on the TY (a suggested redundancy.) This is why I choose to permanently PIN 13 to the main ground block.

I have also ground pins 9, 19, and 22 to the ground block. Could this be the issue? I grounded both pin 13 and the other three ground pins on the TY?

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions and questions on how the wiring has been done. All super helpful!!

Dennis

I checked the pin ground wires 9, 19, and 22 and they are needed. When I disconnected the EFIS indicates that there is power running to the radio....the adapter stops working, and the EFIS indicates that there is no communication from the TY. But when the three grounds along with the pin 13 ground are connected to the ground the only error in the display screen is a trig communication failure.

I continue to be stumped.

 

[clam]

If you haven’t already, you might consider reloading the current software and/or firmware for each device.

 

[clam]

I have power through larger gauge wire from a switch connected to the main bus routed to the TY then split to two smaller gauge wire and pinned to 24 and 25 on the TY (a suggested redundancy.) This is why I choose to permanently PIN 13 to the main ground block.

I don’t have the manuals, so I am offering generalities, but I read this statement as you have spliced two smaller power wires into one larger power wire, and then feeding those to two separate power inputs. I have not seen this done. Certainly, redundant power supplies are routine, but the same wire split and going into two pins may be problematic. For reference, the posts above refer to pin 24 “or” pin 25, so I would check results using only a single power pin. Even try them both individually.

 

[Denman]

I don’t have the manuals, so I am offering generalities, but I read this statement as you have spliced two smaller power wires into one larger power wire, and then feeding those to two separate power inputs. I have not seen this done. Certainly, redundant power supplies are routine, but the same wire split and going into two pins may be problematic. For reference, the posts above refer to pin 24 “or” pin 25, so I would check results using only a single power pin. Even try them both individually.

Good idea, I'll try that.

 

[h&jeuropa]

Dennis, I'm confused now.
Let's talk about the TY grounds. According to the Trig Install Manual, Typical Interconnect page 52, Trig suggests at least two ground wires (note 3). I think if you disconnect the dsub from the TY, an ohm meter will show continuity between all the ground pins, 9, 19 and 22 which is why I don't understand your comment of 7:37 that connecting all the ground pins is necessary. Note that they also say that you need to double up ground connections (page 22).

You say you have a HXr. Do you have the latest software in it, 8.01 (10/22)? There were a lot of changes in 8.00(7/22) including several for the TY. Your serial ports going to the adapter should be 9600 baud and Trig-Com 1 should be the value. Section 3.2 of the GRT Trig manual shows how to verify the adapter is working correctly. Have you checked this on the Display Unit Maint screen?

If all else fails, you might try making a temporary test cable for the TY. It would just need TY 3 to adapter 2, TY 4 to adapter 3, TY 12 to adapter 11, adapter 10 to ground block, TY 25 to 12 volts, TY 19 to ground block, TY 13 to ground block. This would supply power to both the adapter and TY and also communications between them both. Then you can use Section 3.2 to see if communications are working properly. Just because the HXr counter is incrementing, that doesn't mean that data is being transmitted.

 

[Denman]

Dennis, I'm confused now.
Let's talk about the TY grounds. According to the Trig Install Manual, Typical Interconnect page 52, Trig suggests at least two ground wires (note 3). I think if you disconnect the dsub from the TY, an ohm meter will show continuity between all the ground pins, 9, 19 and 22 which is why I don't understand your comment of 7:37 that connecting all the ground pins is necessary. Note that they also say that you need to double up ground connections (page 22).

You say you have a HXr. Do you have the latest software in it, 8.01 (10/22)? There were a lot of changes in 8.00(7/22) including several for the TY. Your serial ports going to the adapter should be 9600 baud and Trig-Com 1 should be the value. Section 3.2 of the GRT Trig manual shows how to verify the adapter is working correctly. Have you checked this on the Display Unit Maint screen?

If all else fails, you might try making a temporary test cable for the TY. It would just need TY 3 to adapter 2, TY 4 to adapter 3, TY 12 to adapter 11, adapter 10 to ground block, TY 25 to 12 volts, TY 19 to ground block, TY 13 to ground block. This would supply power to both the adapter and TY and also communications between them both. Then you can use Section 3.2 to see if communications are working properly. Just because the HXr counter is incrementing, that doesn't mean that data is being transmitted.

Hi,

I'll double check, the TY ground wires, and your likely right. I may have read it and applied the necessary part for all three grounds VS two.

I double checked all the software versions for both the Adapter and the HXr, and they are the latest. I can do an update again for both incase something went wrong with them. The Baud rate is correct at 9600, that being said I'll check both the serial ports 1 and the Trig Com 1.

I did check the Display Unit Maint. screen and confirmed the adapter is working. When I turn off the radio the power to the adapter stops and the screen shows that the adapter stops working, and when the radio is turned on the adapter shows in the Maintenance screen that it is back working. I also recently had MidContinent check the TY and they confirmed that it is working.

I'm going to try the temp wiring harness for the TY to the adapter, good idea.

When I talked to GRT the they noted incremental tick in com1 counter notes that the adapter it talking to the EFIS, but when the radio is communicating along with the adapter the counter will count up at a notably different rate.

 

[Denman]

Thanks Everyone for the suggestions and ideas. I believe the solution has been found.

So as I was going through the latest ideas and trying them hoping I would find an answer in them....eureka.
I created a new set of wires between the TY and adapter, checked all grounds etc.... Still no luck, and so took pictures and sent those to GRT along with an explanation of what I have gone through so far. The one pic I sent was of me holding the TY and GRT showing the pins and keeping the wires separated so GRT could confirm they were correct.

The Tech at GRT (who has been an amazing help i trouble shooting) noticed that the Trig Radio is the TY L version which works with Dynon and not GRT. So...

Thanks again everyone for the help, the Vans Crowd never disappoints.

Up for sale will be my Trig TY remote Radio L version compatible with Dynon screens as well as their own control head. Last summer it was sent to Mid Continent Avionics who bench tested the radio and confirmed that it works.

Dennis

 

[h&jeuropa]

Wow, I’m glad you got that straightened out. Neither the Trig website nor install manual mentions these versions, only that the interface is proprietary.
Jim Butcher

 

[Denman]

Thanks again everyone for all the suggestions regarding wiring and looking into have my radio a TY91L adapted or modified to the TY91 version of the TRIG radio.
Just want to wrap up this thread incase anyone else encounters the same thing I did.

The TY91L is made to talk with Dynon and PS Engineering control heads. I connected with Mid-continent, PS Engineering, and TRIG. Mid-Continent is not able to modify the radio due to the proprietary software and hardware. TRIG said that while the two radios are similar there are both hardware and software differences and nothing is able to be done.

So in short, when buying used ensure your buying the correct radio. Any my TY91L will remain up for sale.