Gear leg fairings

[rgmwa]

Has anybody has looked into the feasibility of installing main gear leg fairings and transitions? I was wondering if it would be possible to modify standard RV4/7A etc fairings to fit? Apart from streamlining and improving the appearance, it would also provide better protection for the brake lines. They look a bit vulnerable just strapped to the back of the leg.

As Van's provided a nose gear leg fairing, it seems strange that they didn't go the extra mile and do the same for the main gear. Maybe they were concerned that it might just push performance over the 120kt limit, or maybe it simply wasn't worth the extra development effort and expense.

I notice that Van installed a leg/fuselage junction fillet on his own EAB RV-12.

 

[DonFromTX]

To the best of my knowlege, nobody has ever tested the RV12 for SEA LEVEL speed at max continous RPM (the LSA requirement). Judging from the Vans performance at altitudes, we have a ways to go before we push those limits.
That said, I read recently that our landing gear provides quite a bit of drag over a streamlined version, Van knows what he is doing on his EAB for sure. As soon as mine is signed off, mine gets MLG fairings and junction fillets.

 

[rvbuilder2002]

To the best of my knowlege, nobody has ever tested the RV12 for SEA LEVEL speed at max continous RPM (the LSA requirement).

Since the RV-12 has been certificated as an S-LSA, thus making it possible to sell it as an E-LSA kit, it has to have been test to verify compliance with all of the LSA ASTM requirements. (And it has!)

Builders need to keep in mind they have total responsibility for any modifications made, above and beyond what is available from Van's in the kits.

 

[Tony_T]

Modified LSA...

An LSA has to "continuously" meet the LSA definition. Once modified to perform outside of that definition it can never be brought back into conformance and cannot be flown by a sport pilot. Something to consider.

A non-compliant LSA may never be questioned....until the FAA investigates an incident and/or the insurance company is asked to honor a claim .

Am I wrong? I have been wrong before .

Tony

 

[Mich48041]

lose its airworthiness certificate

Once modified to perform outside of that definition it can never be brought back into conformance and cannot be flown by a sport pilot.

In addition, it can never be legally flown by ANY pilot in the USA again, ever. The plane would lose its airworthiness certificate.
A builder could change the prop pitch to remain under the speed limit. Or there is always the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
Joe

 

[DonFromTX]

I was unable to get an answer from Vans as to what the Sea Level Max Cont RPM speed was, so assumed it was never actually tested there. Just how do you test at sea level anyway, the wheels would be dipping in the water!
Anyhow as I am sure you know, Vans only spec on speed is a claimed 131 MPH at 5500 rpm AT 7500 FEET. We must assume that it will go slower than that at sea level, and since the LSA spec is 138.094 mph at sea level, I see no problem with adding some speed mods and keeping it well within LSA specs. I want mine to go 138.093 at sea level!

Since the RV-12 has been certificated as an S-LSA, thus making it possible to sell it as an E-LSA kit, it has to have been test to verify compliance with all of the LSA ASTM requirements. (And it has!)

Builders need to keep in mind they have total responsibility for any modifications made, above and beyond what is available from Van's in the kits.

 

[gasman]

In addition, it can never be legally flown by ANY pilot in the USA again, ever. The plane would lose its airworthiness certificate.

Please, Please, show Me, us, where in the FAR's that will hold this statement true...................

 

[rgmwa]

Builders need to keep in mind they have total responsibility for any modifications made, above and beyond what is available from Van's in the kits.

rvbuilder2002: While appreciating that you may not be able to comment specifically in a public forum, it would be nice to know whether the decision to omit main gear leg fairings from the wheel pants kit was a performance related consideration, or simply a practical decision based on too little gain for the effort and cost involved, given the RV-12's relatively modest capabilities compared to other RV's. I suspect it was the latter, given that the entire kit only added 4-5kts.

 

[Mich48041]

See Mel's post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mich48041 View Post
In addition, it can never be legally flown by ANY pilot in the USA again, ever. The plane would lose its airworthiness certificate.
Please, Please, show Me, us, where in the FAR's that will hold this statement true...................

To clarify my post, I was referring to aircraft registered as E-LSA, NOT E-AB.
See this post by Mel:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=501615&postcount=19
Joe

 

[ErichKeane]

To clarify my post, I was referring to aircraft registered as E-LSA, NOT E-AB.
See this post by Mel:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=501615&postcount=19
Joe

I hadn't realized that it was not allowed to be recertified... I would have imagined you could just get to done as an EAB!

So basically if you ever get it to the point where it breaks LSA regs, it becomes no longer a plane.

I definitely trust what Mel says, though I wouldn't mind seeing his cites for this one for next time it comes up.

 

[rgmwa]

I hadn't realized that it was not allowed to be recertified... I would have imagined you could just get to done as an EAB!

So basically if you ever get it to the point where it breaks LSA regs, it becomes no longer a plane.

I definitely trust what Mel says, though I wouldn't mind seeing his cites for this one for next time it comes up.

A bit O/T from maingear leg fairings, but the regs everywhere are a minefield, so tread warily. Our Australian regs are different from those in the US. For example, our LSA rules are the same as the US but don't have a maximum speed limit, and we have slightly higher permissible stall speeds. If your LSA can hit 185 kts at sea level, and stalls at 45kts with full flap, that's not a problem as far as our regulators are concerned.

Like the US, if we register as E-LSA, then the plane has to be built exactly as per the plans, but unlike the US, the owner-builder of an E-LSA here (or the owner of a S-LSA) cannot sign off the annual inspection. LAME only.

Therefore, many RV-12 builders buy from Vans and build to the plans as per E-LSA, but register AB(E) - same as your AB-E. We can then carry out our own maintenance on the aircraft (after completing a course similar to your repairman course), but if we sell the plane, the new owner cannot maintain it under any circumstances.

However the up-side of AB(E) is that we can make the kinds of changes while we are building, that you can only make after certification. The downside is that if we make those changes during the build, Vans won't give us a compliance certificate because it's no longer an E-LSA as far as they are concerned, even if it stays within LSA performance parameters (the question here is which LSA performance parameters, but let's not get too complicated). However provided it stays within our LSA parameters, a sport pilot here can still fly it as an AB(E) (my understanding). We can also obviously build and register as E-LSA if we're prepared to forfeit the maintenance privileges.

In fact, we are legally obliged to make changes because our regs say we must have a standby magnetic compass. However, this is a deviation from the plans under the E-LSA rules, and therefore we would need written approval from Vans if building as E-LSA (and in the UK, they also need an altimeter and ASl, plus a different transponder).

I have no idea what the South Africans do, but it would be much simpler if we had a consistent set of rules between countries.

 

[Mich48041]

Requirements of Van's Aircraft

I purchased every RV-12 sub kit from Van's and then signed and returned to them the statement below.
Joe

To receive the documentation required to license and fly an E-LSA aircraft, including FAA form 8130-15 Light Sport Aircraft Statement of Compliance, the following statement must be true and signed:
I certify that I have received a complete RV-12 E-LSA kit from Van’s Aircraft, Inc. No components have been deleted, returned or altered. The aircraft will be assembled in accordance with Van’s building instructions

 

[RudiGreyling]

<SNIP>
I have no idea what the South Africans do, but it would be much simpler if we had a consistent set of rules between countries.

We South Africans build it exactly like Vans, purchased all the kits, signed the E-LSA documentation, and waiting on our PAP kit.

BUT we can only register it as Amatuer Build in South Africa (We dont have your special previliges) Yes it would be great to have the same set of rules between countries.

We had to make 2 modifications to satifify our CAA (your FAA equaivalent) though for PPL training. Mechanical Compass and Park Brake. Hopefully this will allow our group to perform PPL training on it.

Regards
Rudi

 

[rgmwa]

We South Africans build it exactly like Vans, purchased all the kits, signed the E-LSA documentation, and waiting on our PAP kit.

BUT we can only register it as Amatuer Build in South Africa (We dont have your special previliges) Yes it would be great to have the same set of rules between countries.

We had to make 2 modifications to satifify our CAA (your FAA equaivalent) though for PPL training. Mechanical Compass and Park Brake. Hopefully this will allow our group to perform PPL training on it.

Regards
Rudi

Rudi, how do Vans deal with the CAA required modifications in terms of their E-LSA `no alteration' build requirements ?

 

[RudiGreyling]

Rudi, how do Vans deal with the CAA required modifications in terms of their E-LSA `no alteration' build requirements ?

OK, very long story short, We dont have E-LSA in SA, but we wanted out of choice to stay as close as possible to E-LSA. We could stay 100% as per plans but then we could NOT use the airplane for PPL training for our build group so mods were necesary to satisfy our CAA. So we made contact with Vans and said we need to do these 2 mods, and explained where we are doing it. Park Valve in the tunnel side where the brake lines run. And a round cut-out for Mechanical Compass in Right Hand Instrument Panel. Vans said in short that is should not be a problem, but since we are based in South Africa the airplane is in any case registered as an Amateur Built Aircraft in SA, it does not make a difference to them.

As you can see our intentions is 100% honourable, and our 2 mods in no way will take the airplane out of Sport Pilot Regs. It is not speed related, it is Regulator related.

 

[rgmwa]

OK, very long story short, We dont have E-LSA in SA, but we wanted out of choice to stay as close as possible to E-LSA. We could stay 100% as per plans but then we could NOT use the airplane for PPL training for our build group so mods were necesary to satisfy our CAA. So we made contact with Vans and said we need to do these 2 mods, and explained where we are doing it. Park Valve in the tunnel side where the brake lines run. And a round cut-out for Mechanical Compass in Right Hand Instrument Panel. Vans said in short that is should not be a problem, but since we are based in South Africa the airplane is in any case registered as an Amateur Built Aircraft in SA, it does not make a difference to them.

Hmm, interesting. Very similar to what I'm doing - complying with all Van's requirements for E-LSA, but registering AB(E), and installing a mandatory mechanical compass. Sounds as though that wouldn't concern Vans too much. Also planning to install a backup steam gauge Alt and ASI, seal the tank sight holes and install a Moeller gauge, but not sure yet whether to do this before or after the CofA. Oh yes, forgot to mention main gear fairings. Might install those too (no speed limits down here ). Edit: .... err... just to protect the brake lines of course - strictly 100% honourable intentions only Thanks for the information.