Van's Air Force
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fuel pump and filter?
- Thread starter JDanno
- Start date
frankh
Well Known Member
Nonsense
The AFP pump is is an automotive pump and there are several pumps form NAPA rated for exactly the same duty...Many filters are available..choose one with a large area and a bronze or wire mesh insert..Avoid paper as it can swell with water contamination.
If you check under my name you will see how I built an electric fuel pump only system for my IO360,...One of those pumps will work fine.
the non return valve comes from a hyrdaulic company and I did look them up on the web but I bought mine from AFP at reasonable cost.
Frank
The AFP pump is is an automotive pump and there are several pumps form NAPA rated for exactly the same duty...Many filters are available..choose one with a large area and a bronze or wire mesh insert..Avoid paper as it can swell with water contamination.
If you check under my name you will see how I built an electric fuel pump only system for my IO360,...One of those pumps will work fine.
the non return valve comes from a hyrdaulic company and I did look them up on the web but I bought mine from AFP at reasonable cost.
Frank
Walt
Well Known Member
Weldon
I used a weldon pump and a flowezy filter. Mounted the pump on the firewall under the passenger rudder pedals so I did not have to install the FI pump "box" (which takes up valuable leg room). I just prefer the Weldon fuel pump over the the AFP pump. It will cost you about the same as the AFP install though.
BTW, if anybody need the sheet metal kit to fabricate the FI pump box I still have it.
I used a weldon pump and a flowezy filter. Mounted the pump on the firewall under the passenger rudder pedals so I did not have to install the FI pump "box" (which takes up valuable leg room). I just prefer the Weldon fuel pump over the the AFP pump. It will cost you about the same as the AFP install though.
BTW, if anybody need the sheet metal kit to fabricate the FI pump box I still have it.
On Van's site they list the pump and filter but mention only the IO-360. They also make the statment that this system is adequate for all Lycomings. Is this the pump and filter used for an IO-540 ? Does the RV-10 need an install kit and the special return tee?
Thanks Ron
Thanks Ron
frankh
Well Known Member
Pumps
The FAP pump will make around 35 to 40 GPM at about 40 psi from memory.
The NAPA pumps I used also make about about 35 GPM at 35 psi approx. They cost $130. Then there is the filter and the pressure relief valve.
an IO 540 would consume a max of around 27GPH so any of these pumps will work.
Frank
The FAP pump will make around 35 to 40 GPM at about 40 psi from memory.
The NAPA pumps I used also make about about 35 GPM at 35 psi approx. They cost $130. Then there is the filter and the pressure relief valve.
an IO 540 would consume a max of around 27GPH so any of these pumps will work.
Frank
Summit Racing
Summit Racing has electric fuel pumps for EFI use that operate in the correct pressure range. http://www.summitracing.com/
I looked at Holley but their EFI pumps, at least all I could find, are submerged in the tank style. We use a Holley Blue Pump as a charge pump for our diesel injection pump and it had over 2000 hours on it before we had to put a seal kit in it. Holley pumps I know are good but the others at Summit should be good as well, I do not know that they are cheaper than Van's but they are another source.
The submerged style eliminates vapour lock and are quieter than externally mounted pumps. They also have an inlet sock that somehow passes gasoline but not water. I have heard that someone is working on a pump like these for aircraft use but I do not know a source.
Bob Parry
Summit Racing has electric fuel pumps for EFI use that operate in the correct pressure range. http://www.summitracing.com/
I looked at Holley but their EFI pumps, at least all I could find, are submerged in the tank style. We use a Holley Blue Pump as a charge pump for our diesel injection pump and it had over 2000 hours on it before we had to put a seal kit in it. Holley pumps I know are good but the others at Summit should be good as well, I do not know that they are cheaper than Van's but they are another source.
The submerged style eliminates vapour lock and are quieter than externally mounted pumps. They also have an inlet sock that somehow passes gasoline but not water. I have heard that someone is working on a pump like these for aircraft use but I do not know a source.
Bob Parry
Listers,
There are actually TWO valves mounted on the manifold. Both are REQUIRED for proper operation. The gold colored valve is a one way check valve. The check valve is open when the electric aux. pump is not running. It allows the engine's mechanical pump to draw directly from the fuel tanks. When the electric aux pump is engaged, the pressure in the manifold causes the check valve to close. Once the check valve closes, the electric aux pump's output is forced through the manifold towards the mechanical fuel pump's inlet. When the electric aux pump is engaged, it can create up to 100 psi of fuel pressure. This is to much for the Bendix (aka Precision) fuel injection system. The blue valve on the manifold is the fuel pressure regulation valve for the aux fuel pump. It is made by Kepner Valve. It is designed to open at 25 psi (the desired fuel pressure for the system). Any excess fuel (and excess pressure) is vented by this blue valve back into the intake loop of the electric aux pump.
Charlie Kuss
You need more than just an electric pump!
Bob,
While automotive aftermarket pumps will easily work for this application, they will all NEED a manifold/check valve/fuel pressure valve (like that supplied on the Airflow Performance Pump Assembly sold by Vans) or an equivilant to work on a Lycoming mechanical fuel injection system. The Bendix/Airflow Performance systems operate in the 25 psi range. Most automotive EFI pumps will generate up to 100 psi. EFI systems have the pressure regulation/relief valve up in the fuel injector manifold, NOT as part of the fuel pump.
Charlie Kuss
Bob,
While automotive aftermarket pumps will easily work for this application, they will all NEED a manifold/check valve/fuel pressure valve (like that supplied on the Airflow Performance Pump Assembly sold by Vans) or an equivilant to work on a Lycoming mechanical fuel injection system. The Bendix/Airflow Performance systems operate in the 25 psi range. Most automotive EFI pumps will generate up to 100 psi. EFI systems have the pressure regulation/relief valve up in the fuel injector manifold, NOT as part of the fuel pump.
Charlie Kuss
frankh
Well Known Member
Correct..in my experience the Blue valve actually makes closer to 35 or 40psi.
You could also use a an Andair non return valve in place of the gold coloured one..I use two of these for my wingroot ony electric pump system.
Frank
Frank,
Do the Andair valves have a hinged "flapper" plate inside? Those blue pressure regulator valves are made by Kepner Products. The part number lists the relief pressure as 25 psi. However, I suspect that may be when the start to open, rather than when they are fully open. Either way, those Carter fuel pumps (originally used on 75 to 79 Cadillac Eldorados with EFI) produce an incredible amount of volume. I suspect it's the pump's capacity more than anything that raises the fuel pressure.
Charlie Kuss
frankh
Well Known Member
Could well be
Not sure what my pumps come from..RWS was using them and they are a NAPA part number..On the bench they made about 35GPH..So your right there is a balance between flown and pressure so thats where the 35 to 40 is coming from.
As to the Andair I suspect its a spring loaded check from looking at the outside..But it a very weak spring, I know cracking pressures of 1/3rd psi are quite comon so is uspect this is what it is.
Frank
Not sure what my pumps come from..RWS was using them and they are a NAPA part number..On the bench they made about 35GPH..So your right there is a balance between flown and pressure so thats where the 35 to 40 is coming from.
As to the Andair I suspect its a spring loaded check from looking at the outside..But it a very weak spring, I know cracking pressures of 1/3rd psi are quite comon so is uspect this is what it is.
Frank
hgerhardt
Well Known Member
Here's a pump NOT to use...
I rolled my own also. I originally used a Bosch pump that was stock for a Porsche Turbo (left over from my GTO EFI project) along with a modified automotive EFI bypass pressure regulator (I cut the top off and made a new cap with a set screw) and an Andair check valve (available from Van's), plus a nice Parker teflon ball valve I had left over from yet another project for my fuel selector.
Well, the Bosch pump pumped so much volume that it cavitated while it ran, I assume because of the relatively long runs of tubing on the suction side of the pump. I knew it cavitated from the sound it made.
I did some digging on the net and figured out what Airflow Perf uses for a pump (It's an Airtex universal replacement for a 76-80 Cadillac Seville, among others) and substituted that for the Porsche pump. However, Airflow Perf makes a special AN -6 flare adapter that screws on the suction side of the pump that I had to get from them, and that's required to make this work in our application.
The Airtex pump works just fine, as does the rest of my fuel system. However, considering the labor I have in this, in hindsight I should have just bought the Airflow Perf setup from Van's...
Heinrich Gerhardt
RV-6, flying
I rolled my own also. I originally used a Bosch pump that was stock for a Porsche Turbo (left over from my GTO EFI project) along with a modified automotive EFI bypass pressure regulator (I cut the top off and made a new cap with a set screw) and an Andair check valve (available from Van's), plus a nice Parker teflon ball valve I had left over from yet another project for my fuel selector.
Well, the Bosch pump pumped so much volume that it cavitated while it ran, I assume because of the relatively long runs of tubing on the suction side of the pump. I knew it cavitated from the sound it made.
I did some digging on the net and figured out what Airflow Perf uses for a pump (It's an Airtex universal replacement for a 76-80 Cadillac Seville, among others) and substituted that for the Porsche pump. However, Airflow Perf makes a special AN -6 flare adapter that screws on the suction side of the pump that I had to get from them, and that's required to make this work in our application.
The Airtex pump works just fine, as does the rest of my fuel system. However, considering the labor I have in this, in hindsight I should have just bought the Airflow Perf setup from Van's...
Heinrich Gerhardt
RV-6, flying
