Steve Emmett
Member
I am at the point where I need to start thinking about an engine. I am interested in hearing peoples thoughts about the pros and cons of fuel injection. Thanks
Van's Air Force
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Fuel injection
- Thread starter Steve Emmett
- Start date
dan
Well Known Member
Carbs sure are simple, right?
Except how many people have you seen posting on various lists where they end up having to re-jet their carbs, chasing down too-lean or too-rich this and that? I hear about some folks having to go with a completely different model carb to solve the problem. Wha?! Isn't an O-360 is an O-360 is an O-360?! Seems like an epidemic lately. Maybe it's just what I've been reading.
A friend of mine who flies an RV-7A has a carb on his O-360 and he says the cost differential is basically zero now, between going with FI and carb from the get-go. He is one of the folks who has lean running issues with his carb and is trying to find a cure.
When I hear about these issues I sit back and think...man, I'm sure glad I have direct control over mixture in the true sense.
Oh, and I can run LOP with my balanced FI setup. Yeah, yeah, I know some folks do that with carbs, but they're few and far between.
With fuel prices going nowhere but UP, the ability to run LOP smoothly has its value to me. And I'm sure it has its value to other shrewd pilots as well, who see themselves flying this given airplane well into the future.
Except how many people have you seen posting on various lists where they end up having to re-jet their carbs, chasing down too-lean or too-rich this and that? I hear about some folks having to go with a completely different model carb to solve the problem. Wha?! Isn't an O-360 is an O-360 is an O-360?! Seems like an epidemic lately. Maybe it's just what I've been reading.
A friend of mine who flies an RV-7A has a carb on his O-360 and he says the cost differential is basically zero now, between going with FI and carb from the get-go. He is one of the folks who has lean running issues with his carb and is trying to find a cure.
When I hear about these issues I sit back and think...man, I'm sure glad I have direct control over mixture in the true sense.
Oh, and I can run LOP with my balanced FI setup. Yeah, yeah, I know some folks do that with carbs, but they're few and far between.
With fuel prices going nowhere but UP, the ability to run LOP smoothly has its value to me. And I'm sure it has its value to other shrewd pilots as well, who see themselves flying this given airplane well into the future.
Bob Martin
Well Known Member
Lean Carbs
I hope the epidemic is from the flyers becoming more aware of the performance of their planes.
It might just be me and my interest in proper cooling, but I seemed to notice at Oshkosh this year that more attention was being paid by all models, not only RV's, to cooling issues.
I agree with all Dan's comments about FI.....and if I were making the choice, I would go FI.
I'm one of the lean carb guys.....dan said:
I hope the epidemic is from the flyers becoming more aware of the performance of their planes.
It might just be me and my interest in proper cooling, but I seemed to notice at Oshkosh this year that more attention was being paid by all models, not only RV's, to cooling issues.
I agree with all Dan's comments about FI.....and if I were making the choice, I would go FI.
Don Vosgien
I'm New Here
FI for and O-235
Great,
Fuel Injecton sounds great. Where can I get one for the O-235 I want to put in my 9A? Just joking, I know I will be stuck with a carb. But, one can dream of having a fuelie O-235 engine!
Don Vosgien
Great,
Fuel Injecton sounds great. Where can I get one for the O-235 I want to put in my 9A? Just joking, I know I will be stuck with a carb. But, one can dream of having a fuelie O-235 engine!
Don Vosgien
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
Take a look here.Don Vosgien said:Great,
Fuel Injecton sounds great. Where can I get one for the O-235 I want to put in my 9A? Just joking, I know I will be stuck with a carb. But, one can dream of having a fuelie O-235 engine!
Don Vosgien
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
You might recognize the owners name from these forums.
whifof100ll
Well Known Member
I want forward facing injection
After speaking with others, I definitly want FI for my RV-6 project. I already own the cowl with scoop for the 6, but the scoop is not mounted. Engine shops are offereing the vertical induction precision airhawk at an insigificant adder over the carb. The forward facing option is about en extra $1000. I would actually like to go this route, but don't want to buy an RV-7 cowl, or upgrade to the Sam James cowl. I'm told by Van's that the 6 cowl won't work. I wonder it there is a reasonable modification that would allow the forward facing sump to work with the 6 cowl. Perhaps a RAM air like setup similar to a Pitts. I would want an air cleaner at least for feild ops.
Does anyone know if this is workable?
Dale Lambert
RV-6 finishing kit
After speaking with others, I definitly want FI for my RV-6 project. I already own the cowl with scoop for the 6, but the scoop is not mounted. Engine shops are offereing the vertical induction precision airhawk at an insigificant adder over the carb. The forward facing option is about en extra $1000. I would actually like to go this route, but don't want to buy an RV-7 cowl, or upgrade to the Sam James cowl. I'm told by Van's that the 6 cowl won't work. I wonder it there is a reasonable modification that would allow the forward facing sump to work with the 6 cowl. Perhaps a RAM air like setup similar to a Pitts. I would want an air cleaner at least for feild ops.
Does anyone know if this is workable?
Dale Lambert
RV-6 finishing kit
Don at Airflow
Well Known Member
Don Vosgien said:Great,
Fuel Injecton sounds great. Where can I get one for the O-235 I want to put in my 9A? Just joking, I know I will be stuck with a carb. But, one can dream of having a fuelie O-235 engine!
Don Vosgien
Don't dream. A 235 mechanical fuel injection system is already a reality! We have Kit #8000004 for that application.
Also you can put FI on a up draft sump but have ram air too. We have a kit that uses a elbow to face the fuel control forward and a alternate air duct that allows unfiltered ram air or filtered alternate air.
Lots of options.
Don
Don at Airflow
Well Known Member
No Dream
Yes, we have a system that will inject a O-290 also. On both the 235 and 290 the injector nozzles are installed in the primer ports. This is multi point fuel injection, just like we put on 320's, 360's and 540's. It is best to have the accessory case for both the 235 and 290 set up to run a mechanical diaphragm fuel pump, then you simply put in the high pressure (24 PSI) diaphragm pump (LW-15473) and your good to go.
Don
N941WR said:
Yes, we have a system that will inject a O-290 also. On both the 235 and 290 the injector nozzles are installed in the primer ports. This is multi point fuel injection, just like we put on 320's, 360's and 540's. It is best to have the accessory case for both the 235 and 290 set up to run a mechanical diaphragm fuel pump, then you simply put in the high pressure (24 PSI) diaphragm pump (LW-15473) and your good to go.
Don
alpinelakespilot2000
Well Known Member
Steve-
There are a lot of threads that you might look up on the carb. vs. fuel injection that will probably help you. So far this thread is all "pro-f.i." but you'll find some very good arguments in other threads for carbs.
I'm going with carb--more because I'm going with an overhauled engine, not a new one, and the cost differential for me would be much greater if I chose to add f.i. (Also, if you look at new AeroSports, for example, even today their f.i. versions are running $1700 more than carbed versions on an 0-320. I'm not sure if that includes the very expensive f.i. fuel pump or not.) If you're going to own your engine for a long time you'd probably get your money out of the f.i. The only planes I've ever flown in the past have had carbs and I've never actually had any trouble with them.
Good luck.
There are a lot of threads that you might look up on the carb. vs. fuel injection that will probably help you. So far this thread is all "pro-f.i." but you'll find some very good arguments in other threads for carbs.
I'm going with carb--more because I'm going with an overhauled engine, not a new one, and the cost differential for me would be much greater if I chose to add f.i. (Also, if you look at new AeroSports, for example, even today their f.i. versions are running $1700 more than carbed versions on an 0-320. I'm not sure if that includes the very expensive f.i. fuel pump or not.) If you're going to own your engine for a long time you'd probably get your money out of the f.i. The only planes I've ever flown in the past have had carbs and I've never actually had any trouble with them.
Good luck.
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I pondered over the carb vs FI question for several months, then decided that FI was for me. Just finished fab'ing the Airflow Performance pump/filter assembly and fitting it in the cabin. Aside from the "no carb heat" advantage, I decided FI is the state of the art. Look how scarce carburetion is in auto's anymore. If even the car industry has moved to FI, why should I opt for anything but the most precise fuel feed system I can get?
Rupester
RV-9A QB fuse
Rupester
RV-9A QB fuse
Noel Simmons
Well Known Member
Mattituck IO-320 with an MT CS
I built and sold a very nice RV-9A with the Mattituck IO-320 with the MT constant speed prop. Fuel injection was the Air Flow Performance. Up draft oil sump, Be sure to order the CAB from Van?s that is for the Air Flow Performance injector body. Duel batteries, two screen Grand Rapids EFIS with the trutrak AP. I think this was the cat?s meow!!!! I really love (ed) this aircraft. With a TAS of 152KTS it really could get somewhere burning only 8.5 GPH. Last winter I flew to Fort St. John BC, & all over the mountains here in Montana. Just a great get in and go somewhere aircraft, the Classic Aero interior helped lots too.
Noel Simmons
A&P CFI
Builder of fine aircraft
www.blueskyaviation.net
I built and sold a very nice RV-9A with the Mattituck IO-320 with the MT constant speed prop. Fuel injection was the Air Flow Performance. Up draft oil sump, Be sure to order the CAB from Van?s that is for the Air Flow Performance injector body. Duel batteries, two screen Grand Rapids EFIS with the trutrak AP. I think this was the cat?s meow!!!! I really love (ed) this aircraft. With a TAS of 152KTS it really could get somewhere burning only 8.5 GPH. Last winter I flew to Fort St. John BC, & all over the mountains here in Montana. Just a great get in and go somewhere aircraft, the Classic Aero interior helped lots too.
Noel Simmons
A&P CFI
Builder of fine aircraft
www.blueskyaviation.net
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I chose carb for the simplicity of owner maintenance and also because I had already plumbed the plane for carb. However, one advantage of the FI that hasn't been mentioned is that it allows for negative g should you ever want it. I also participated in building both types at Superior and found the fuelie only slightly more complicated to build due to all those little fuel lines. Now that the price differential is down to almost nothing, the FI is probably the better choice.
Noel Simmons
Well Known Member
Dan,
I am guessing you are talking about your -7 or -8 (same wing). I have noticed that the -7's are a little more efficient at the 160kts. My -7 would do about the same pulled back to 160kts. At 182 KTAS at 6000' she really gobbled the fuel. But for an RV-9A 152KTAS for a 65% cruse is quite fast. The -9A simply has lots more wetted aria that the -7 and an IO-360 has to work a lot less to make 160hp than the IO-320, yes I understand BFC.
My humble 1.75 cents worth (not even worth the full 2)
Noel Simmons
A&P CFI
Builder of fine aircraft
www.blueskyaviation.net
I am guessing you are talking about your -7 or -8 (same wing). I have noticed that the -7's are a little more efficient at the 160kts. My -7 would do about the same pulled back to 160kts. At 182 KTAS at 6000' she really gobbled the fuel. But for an RV-9A 152KTAS for a 65% cruse is quite fast. The -9A simply has lots more wetted aria that the -7 and an IO-360 has to work a lot less to make 160hp than the IO-320, yes I understand BFC.
My humble 1.75 cents worth (not even worth the full 2)
Noel Simmons
A&P CFI
Builder of fine aircraft
www.blueskyaviation.net
