Forward Facing Horizontal Cold Air Induction

[N23J]

I searched the form and found several threads on the pros and cons of vertical verses horizontal induction I am not interested in that debate on this thread. What I am looking for is:
1. Opinions on ease of installation of the horizontal (snorkel).
2. Longevity and repairs of that system.
3. Opinions of ease of installation between vertical and horizontal
4. A thread that shows or directs help with the install of the horizontal induction
5. Is the Vettermans exhaust without the muffler loud in the cabin
6. Is additional heat transferred into the cabin due to this system verses vertical
(I live in the dessert, extra cabin heat is bad in the summer )

Thanks for you help and opinions in advance

 

[John Courte]

I just finished fighting with the snorkel/baffle installation. My installation was not easy at all, at least not to me. The common wisdom seems to be to cut the snorkel in half and glass it back together once you've got the two ends to fit on the servo and inlet ramp respectively. I didn't do this because I had to cut away most of the servo-side end of the snorkel to fit the round intake of the AFP FM-200 servo and fabricate a new opening from fiberglass using the servo, and later, a plastic plug.

Much of it will depend on what you're using for a sump and fuel servo. The Superior Cold Air sump presents its own set of difficulties, and the AFP FM200 servo compounds them. The newer FM150 servo has a square boss for mounting the intake, which makes it much more like the Precision/Bendix configuration and thus more in line with the design of the Van's snorkel. Still, you'll probably have to cut some relief holes in the snorkel to clear the alternator and possibly ears on the starter, but that's no big deal.

Also, I was not able to use the Vetterman crossover exhaust on my config, because there was no way to get cabling to the servo without issues of heat or physical interference with either the sump or the intake tubes, or the exhaust system itself. The 4-pipe system seems to be fine though. Plenty of room to run cables up the middle. However, I'm not sure what options you have for a muffler with this system should you need one. I'm not going to use one, I figure that's what noise-canceling headsets are for, and after my experience with the rest of the system, the last thing I want to add is more complexity, not to mention weight.

What I would recommend, if you're set on a cold-air forward-facing intake, is probably Rod Bower's ram air system, which simplifies things immensely, other than the fact that you will need a scoop on your lower cowl to accommodate the system. I believe he sells one of those as well. If I was going to do it over again, that's the way I'd go.

 

[Dan Langhout]

Snorkel

I just recently finished my snorkel installation - RV-7, IO-375, Superior horizontal cold air sump, Precision Airmotive injection. No big deal really. Had to do the usual hole cutting to fit around the alternator mount but nothing other than that (no cutting in half and re-gluing). The fit up to the baffle was fiddly to do but not really that difficult. Basically followed the Van's instructions.

 

[RVbySDI]

I searched the form and found several threads on the pros and cons of vertical verses horizontal induction I am not interested in that debate on this thread. What I am looking for is:

1. Opinions on ease of installation of the horizontal (snorkel).

See my comments below.

2. Longevity and repairs of that system.

I have approximately 180 hours now on my installation. I have had ZERO problems with anything even remotely related to my installation.

3. Opinions of ease of installation between vertical and horizontal

I have no experience with the vertical installation. My installation was very straight forward. See my comments below.

4. A thread that shows or directs help with the install of the horizontal induction

This is specific to ECi's installation (which is what I used for my engine): http://www.eci.aero/exp/RV6,7,9.pdf. If you have not consider ECi I suggest you look into their design.

5. Is the Vettermans exhaust without the muffler loud in the cabin

I have Vetterman's straight 4 pipe exhaust on my ECi IO-340 with forward facing cold air induction. I was not at all interested in a loud airplane when I was building. I was very reluctant to go with the straight pipes. I had visions of some loud hot rod with straight pipes barreling down the street with a raucous roar. Absolutely not even close to what my airplane sounds like. Is it loud in the cockpit without a headset? Well, yes. The RV cockpit is a very noisy environment with all of that metal banging around. Different than any other RV? I don't think so. Louder than a muffled RV? Maybe. Would I do it again? In a heartbeat!

The truth is, I have come to realize it is not really that loud. In the beginning I was always concerned with the noise my airplane was producing around the airport so I was constantly asking those who were around when I landed "How loud was my airplane?" "Was it as loud as that one over there when it came in?" Everyone who answered would tell me they did not think it was all that loud. I think it has that distinctive RV sound. It does sound sweet!

6. Is additional heat transferred into the cabin due to this system verses vertical

I do not notice any heat transfer. But then again, I have a full interior from Classic Aero that includes an insulated carpet on the floor. I also have ceramic firewall insulation on the engine side of the firewall that is helping.

I just finished fighting with the snorkel/baffle installation. My installation was not easy at all, at least not to me. The common wisdom seems to be to cut the snorkel in half and glass it back together once you've got the two ends to fit on the servo and inlet ramp respectively.

Concerning questions 1 & 3 from above and John's comments, I had a very different experience installing my cold air induction. My installation was very painless. Now in order for that to be the case I did a lot of pre-purchase research and had multiple discussions with both ECi and Vans concerning what I would need. One of the most important things from Vans was to make sure to order the cowling and snorkel for the IO-360. This cowling is wider than the stock cowling and it does not have the snout. Because of this pre-planning, when it came for installation everything almost fit like a glove. I did not need to alter the Van's supplied snorkel in any way. ECi supplies a kit that mates the sump up to the Van's snorkel. It worked great! John mentioned having to alter the snorkel in order to fit around the starter or other accessories. Not so in my case. The Van's snorkel fits around the SkyTec starter I have installed perfectly. I did not require any fiberglass work at all on the snorkel with my installation. The one area I did have to modify was the bottom of the cowl where the #2 exhaust came down from the cylinder. It was close enough to the bottom of the cowl that it was getting the fiberglass too hot. I had to fiberglass in a small bump and lay some heat tape on the interior portion of that bump to allow for adequate air flow around that exhaust pipe. That was about the extent of my alterations though.

Ok, so everyone has their own ideas about how things should be built. I am sure there are those who will post accordingly in answering your questions. All the time I was building I spent an awful lot of time perusing through this forum for anyone who had experience with this type of setup. I was just like you back then. Wanting details and any information I could find. Most were telling me: "Don't do it." "It is too much work." "Just get the airplane flying." This was advice coming from a lot of experienced builders who, even to this day, I still hold a lot of respect for. However, I was building something different so I was just going to have to take their advice, glean what I could from it and move forward. That is where you are now. I had a lot of push back by all types of individuals, vendors, manufacturers, forum posters when I chose to install my ECi IO-340 stroker with the forward facing cold air induction and ECi fuel injection system in my 9A (Just as a note, I am not in any way affiliated with ECi other than as a satisfied customer). If you are are interested in the cold air induction, look into the ECi setup. Talk to them, they have a lot of good advice on installing them (If you are going to OSHKOSH, they will have a booth there).

So as far as the cold air induction, I will tell you if this is what you want, this setup can work. It DOES work and it works very well! It is really not any more complicated to install than any other part of the project. It may take a little head scratching but you will eventually be able to do it. Once you do you will find what a great setup this is. Good Luck and keep after it. Let me know if I can help.

 

[Jerry Cochran]

Cutting the snorkel

Not that big a deal to saw the snorkel in half if you need to... I did on my -6a and just bolted both ends up, and added glass to the gap then smoothed the inside. Worked great but the time consuming part before was setting up the KN filter mount...

.

 

[704CH]

Below is a link to my snorkel install. You can look at my blog entries before and after this one to see more pics and additional content.

Its hard to find people who have built both options (horizontal vs vertical), and you need to have built it to know if it was hard or not.. So I can only talk to the horizontal..

It wasn't that bad for me, but there is a lot of cutting, fitting, measuring, and even guessing, to get the snorkel to fit through the front ramp. I did it without cutting my snorkle and worked fine, but it did take a long time and small steps.

http://www.704ch.com/2012/04/baffles-and-horizontal-induction.html

 

[roadrunner20]

I agree with what others have posted.
I've had 665 issue free hours.
Noise not an issue. I have Vetterman's crossover exhaust with no muffler. But I do have the catto 3 blade which may soften the noise & vibrations. The FAB was a bit of a challenge to align with the lower cowl but no big deal.
I've not noticed and heat issues here living in Florida.