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bryan12
Is anyone aware of a forum or site where one can pull up the history of accidents exclusive to RVs and then with a description or believed cause of the accident.
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bryan12
perfect
Thanks a lot. something to keep me busy for a while.
Thanks a lot. something to keep me busy for a while.
Reading accident reports is an admirable endeavor, the problem is, nobody has figured out a new way to hurt themselves in an airplane recently.... We all know the reasons...
Weather, buzzing, low level acro, botched formation, loss of control on landing, loss of control on t/o and the old standard, running out of gas.... Yes there are some mechanical problems, but if we eliminate poor maintenance, which in our world is almost always a pilot problem, the actual aircraft problems (certainly in the RV world) are so few and far between as to not be worth the time and effort to discuss.....
I can live with the odds of the fluke broken crankshafts and connecting rod bolt failures for no reason. These are not the things that kill our friends..... Mostly it is the stuff we already know and understand.
Why do we read accident reports? Everyone together now, "To learn from other peoples mistakes." Agreed?
Well lets look at the FAA's definition of learning, "A change in behavior." It is easy to know why airplanes crash, what is hard is changing the behaviors that cause them to crash....
All too often we read accident reports to find a link in the accident chain that we don't do and so we feel vindicated... "See, here is why that accident can't happen to me...." This is rationalization and it is counter productive....
If we are unwilling to change the well documented behaviors that we know cause accidents, reading the reports is a waste of time. Working on changing those behaviors is a much better use of time. But, it is a lot harder.....
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Weather, buzzing, low level acro, botched formation, loss of control on landing, loss of control on t/o and the old standard, running out of gas.... Yes there are some mechanical problems, but if we eliminate poor maintenance, which in our world is almost always a pilot problem, the actual aircraft problems (certainly in the RV world) are so few and far between as to not be worth the time and effort to discuss.....
I can live with the odds of the fluke broken crankshafts and connecting rod bolt failures for no reason. These are not the things that kill our friends..... Mostly it is the stuff we already know and understand.
Why do we read accident reports? Everyone together now, "To learn from other peoples mistakes." Agreed?
Well lets look at the FAA's definition of learning, "A change in behavior." It is easy to know why airplanes crash, what is hard is changing the behaviors that cause them to crash....
All too often we read accident reports to find a link in the accident chain that we don't do and so we feel vindicated... "See, here is why that accident can't happen to me...." This is rationalization and it is counter productive....
If we are unwilling to change the well documented behaviors that we know cause accidents, reading the reports is a waste of time. Working on changing those behaviors is a much better use of time. But, it is a lot harder.....
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
terrykohler
Well Known Member
Some Observations from the Reports
Looking thru the fatal RV accidents from 2005 and on which list a probable cause (just over 40), I'm seeing the following:
VFR flight into IMC - 7
Fuel Starvation - 2
Buzzing/low level acro - 11
Formation - 5 (does not include ground related)
Just something to think about, especially if you're carrying passengers who are relying on your judgement.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
Looking thru the fatal RV accidents from 2005 and on which list a probable cause (just over 40), I'm seeing the following:
VFR flight into IMC - 7
Fuel Starvation - 2
Buzzing/low level acro - 11
Formation - 5 (does not include ground related)
Just something to think about, especially if you're carrying passengers who are relying on your judgement.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
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bryan12
all good comments,,,
I appreciate the comments. I would like to one day soon purchase a previously built -6. I wanted to beging to understand the key critical components i need to have an eye for when looking at builder craftmanship. Thus I felt reviewing accident reports for airframe related incidents would be a good start. I have no desire to own anything built outside vans plans in powerplant etc. the last comment is a good sign for me as I can dedicate myself to safety regarding fuel, weather, low level flight thus ruling out some concerns. Every friend i have who flies RVs loves the airframes abvously and I too am obsessed. I like to be armed with the knowledge and stats telling me what I feel I should know.
I would enjoy using the aircraft for instrument flight, my one RV owner friend has said quite clearly "light IFR" only. How light I wonder over a similar light single?
I appreciate the comments. I would like to one day soon purchase a previously built -6. I wanted to beging to understand the key critical components i need to have an eye for when looking at builder craftmanship. Thus I felt reviewing accident reports for airframe related incidents would be a good start. I have no desire to own anything built outside vans plans in powerplant etc. the last comment is a good sign for me as I can dedicate myself to safety regarding fuel, weather, low level flight thus ruling out some concerns. Every friend i have who flies RVs loves the airframes abvously and I too am obsessed. I like to be armed with the knowledge and stats telling me what I feel I should know.
I would enjoy using the aircraft for instrument flight, my one RV owner friend has said quite clearly "light IFR" only. How light I wonder over a similar light single?
pierre smith
Well Known Member
Light IFR....
...is certainly doable/possible in the -4, -6, -7, -8 and -9, and quite few owners on here do but so much depends on your ability. The two seaters are more difficult to hand fly in IMC, by far, than the -10 or similar airplanes because they're so short-coupled with a quick response rate. That said, quite a few two seat owners fly 'hard' IFR as well.
Your friend says, "Light IFR" only....that's his take, not necessarily for others...that's his comfort zone and wisely so. YMMV as you build time and experience in your airplane. This is one area where an autopilot really helps a lot, keeping you level while you change frequencies, study approach plates and so on. There is no "one-size-fits-all".
Best,
...is certainly doable/possible in the -4, -6, -7, -8 and -9, and quite few owners on here do but so much depends on your ability. The two seaters are more difficult to hand fly in IMC, by far, than the -10 or similar airplanes because they're so short-coupled with a quick response rate. That said, quite a few two seat owners fly 'hard' IFR as well.
Your friend says, "Light IFR" only....that's his take, not necessarily for others...that's his comfort zone and wisely so. YMMV as you build time and experience in your airplane. This is one area where an autopilot really helps a lot, keeping you level while you change frequencies, study approach plates and so on. There is no "one-size-fits-all".
Best,
I am one of those who flies "hard" Ifr... If you are current in high-performance airplanes and have a good A/P, the RVs are very capable airplanes. It is not like flying IFR in a -172 or a Cherokee. An RV is comparable to a 210 or a Bonanza and the Rocket is like a Baron or a Twin Cessna. Things happen fast. I flew my RV-4 and now my Rocket all over the US in all kinds of weather. I would not recommend much IFR in an RV without an A/P... I did one trip in the Rocket when the A/P was broken.. Iowa to TX to W.D.C. to Iowa. Lotsa IFR and a couple fairly low approaches.... It was a really long trip......
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
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terrykohler
Well Known Member
Doug:
I've got a fair amount of time in 210s and less than 600 hours in Bonanzas, and not sure I would compare either of them to an RV, with the exception of cruise speed. Your comment about an auto-pilot is pretty good. Big difference between the RVs and the factory metal is roll and pitch sensitivity. The RVs (Models 9 and 10 excepted) require a great deal more attention. Both the 210 and A36 are VERY stable instrument platforms and can be easily flown without an AP - easy to hand fly either in IMC and look at a chart without engaging the AP. Not sure I would try that in most of the RV models.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
I've got a fair amount of time in 210s and less than 600 hours in Bonanzas, and not sure I would compare either of them to an RV, with the exception of cruise speed. Your comment about an auto-pilot is pretty good. Big difference between the RVs and the factory metal is roll and pitch sensitivity. The RVs (Models 9 and 10 excepted) require a great deal more attention. Both the 210 and A36 are VERY stable instrument platforms and can be easily flown without an AP - easy to hand fly either in IMC and look at a chart without engaging the AP. Not sure I would try that in most of the RV models.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
Flyfalcons
Well Known Member
I also don't know of any RVs or Rockets equipped to prevent or shed airframe and prop ice. Just something to think about.
I agree, my point about the 210/Bonanza was unless you are current in airplanes like this, you have no business trying to do it in an RV. The RV will be a step up, but a doable one.
With regard to ice, I live in Iowa. Ice is a fact of life here, but at 2500 fpm climb, rime is a non issue on departure. If the clouds are low at the destination and you will have to be manuvering in the ice, that option is out. I miss some trips because of it, but not often.
Whether I am flying the Rocket or our Baron (booted) in the winter, the thought process is the same, can I climb and descend through it to clear air. Boots only extend the time in the ice slightly, you have to have a way out of it. I might accept lower weather at the destination in the Baron, but not much.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
