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Flying in ice

miyu1975

miyu1975

Well Known Member
As winter progresses I am curious to know how well or poorly the rv handles ice. Obviously, I realize avoiding ice is the best practice...especially known icing cond., but surely there are those that have been flying along and picked up ice on the wings, tail and had to deal with it...I am curious as to your actions at the point...
 
There Have Been a Number of Posts on This Subject

Ryan:
Just type in "Ice" on the search function. If you also type my user name, you can see my posts on this subject, which may be of some use as we're both subject to the weather created by the Great Lakes.
Bottom line, a little ice won't make your RV fall out of the sky, but you should take decisive action whenever you encounter it as these planes weren't designed with ice in mind.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
Canopy ice...

In my experience the most notable issue is canopy icing... several times I have had the canopy ice up in a flash and clearing the ice requires prolonged sun exposure or warmer air. Not much defrost available... none really unless you have made special provision. I once picked up a load of ice in some light rain with outside temperature reading 38-40 degrees...
 
As a CFI and a CGIA&I I can't recall ever telling a student anything other than "don't" when they asked about flying in icing conditions. Well, maybe I used the word "avoid" a few times.

In the early 70s, there was a term, POR (press on regardless) that seemed to be associated with most GA accidents. IMO, flying anywhere near icing conditions qualified in that category.

But that's just me. Maybe global warming has made icing safer. ;)
 
This might be an old wives tale or something.. but here goes..
I took my 6A to the local shop on the airport to get my transponder check done a couple of years ago. The mechanic was asking about how I liked my 6A.. said I loved it.. and then he went on and on about how strong the spar is on the 6A.. he then proceeded to tell me about a story that he saw many years ago at the airport.. He said this old bomber pilot that had a 6 flew in to get some repairs done on a nasty cold misty winter day where nobody was flying.. and proceeded to say that when he landed he had sheets of ice hanging off the wings that came near the ground.. I don't know the truth to that story but found it pretty interesting nonetheless..
 
BPoletti said:
As a CFI and a CGIA&I I can't recall ever telling a student anything other than "don't" when they asked about flying in icing conditions. Well, maybe I used the word "avoid" a few times.

In the early 70s, there was a term, POR (press on regardless) that seemed to be associated with most GA accidents. IMO, flying anywhere near icing conditions qualified in that category.

But that's just me. Maybe global warming has made icing safer. ;)
Click to expand...

Amen, BPoletti.

There have been many messages here on this subject. It always comes up again because there are inexperienced guys who think this might be something they can deal with - if just a little bit of it.

There is no amount of icing that is OK with an RV. The reason being, icing is unpredictable in its severity. A fatal load can be picked up quickly and your goose is cooked (or frozen, your choice).

Do not fly if there is a possibility of ice - PERIOD, it improves the likelihood of enjoying your grandchildren considerably.
 
I have got cut in an icing condition twice but very light amount, mostly due to the fact that I tried to get out of the situation ASAP. The ice was forming on the wing root area and windshield area (front bottom part of the canopy). I did not feel any weird characteristic in terms of flight control but I was very much on my guards and trying to get out of it quick. I was surprised to see how long it took to dissipate based on comments from others, I was expecting a faster rate when I was in clear. My goal and aim is not to be there to begin with.
 
My RV-8 has had ice on it twice. The first time was in the summer, on an IFR flight. We were cruising at 9000 ft, in cloud. It was quite bumpy and my pax was starting to feel poorly. The cloud tops were predicted to be around 10,000 ft, so I got ATC clearance to climb to 11,000. At 11,000 we were in and out of the cloud tops, and started picking up light rime ice on the windscreen and wing leading edges. I told ATC I was picking up light ice, and got immediate clearance to go back to 9000. The ice disappeared as I descended through 10,000 (the freezing level).

The second time was on a VFR flight with the ground temperature just below freezing. I flew below a cloud that must have had something falling from it, as I picked up something that looked like rime ice on the windscreen and wing leading edges. I had no pax, and was at forward CG, so I decided to take advantage of the unexpected chance to evaluate the effect of light ice on stall speed and stall characteristics. I found no effect on stall characteristics, but the IAS at the stall was about 2 kt higher than it would have been without ice. After the test I descended to 1000 ft, and flew around at max speed until the ice melted.

My advice, based on my hundreds of hours flying in icing conditions, and several natural icing flight test programs:

  1. Avoid ice. Stay out of cloud above the freezing level unless you can descend below the freezing level if necessary to shed ice.
  2. If ice is encountered, take immediate action to exit the icing condition.
  3. If the aircraft has ice, descend to below the freezing level if possible.
  4. If it is not possible to descend below the freezing level, the ice will slowly sublimate if you fly in clear air. The faster you fly, the quicker the ice will sublimiate. Be patient - it may take an hour, or more, for all the ice to sublimate.
  5. If it is necessary to land with ice on the aircraft, add 10 kt to the normal approach speed. If you have a large load of ice, consider using zero or 1/3 flap rather than full flap, to avoid any risk of tail plane stall.
 
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I suspect the -9 wing to be even more problematic as I understand it to be a Roncz laminar flow airfoil. I once picked up frost passing through the top of cumulous in my Long-EZ and rapidly lost 20 mph. Man, that got my attention while IMC!! Broke out into crystal clear sunshine and it took 15-20 min for it to sublimate off! Airflow disruption of any kind on a laminar flow wing is a "big deal".
 
Insidious Ice

This happened to Carol and I a few years ago. It is only funny because everything worked out OK. Our son lived on the North side of Atlanta, and we lived onthe South Side. We would fly up to see them every once in a while. Normal course is to ask for "over the top" of Atlanta through the VFR corridor at 4500/5500 feet, or IFR at 5000. Well, the clouds were at 4K, and it was below freezing, so we decided to go around the west side at 3K'. It was night, and during the Christmas Holidays. Atlanta looked beautiful with all of the normal lights and added Holiday lights. As we got to the South side I remarked how much darker the South side of Atlanta was. I mean it was beginnning to look like the lights were turned off! Ever get that feeling that something isn't right and the hair stands up? I can't tell you how fast that happened to me and I grabbed the flashlight and looked at the wing and canopy. Sure enough, the canopy was iced over! It had started misting on the South side (unforecast), so there wasn't any of the usual rain noise. Just an insidious ice build up. I quickly decended to 2K' and the ice started coming off. But we did land with ice still on the wings, with no apparent effect to flight characteristics.

Vic
 
Thanks all and great discussion on ice. I hadn't even considered the ice on canopy. I don't intend ever fly into known or predicted ice, but figure I still learn from others as I am a relatively low time pilot/rv driver.

Flying back today from Texas to Indy (first long xctry) was a non event, except my oil door lid on the cowling popped open in flight (made a quick landing to fix that). I met a cold front in Indy at arrival today and saw 1 degree f at 5500. Mostly clear sky's with a few puffys at 6000, and I made sure to stay out of them.
 
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