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Flux core welding

uk_figs

uk_figs

Well Known Member
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I am soon to start building a DanH design tailwheel tug and need to weld up the square tube frame. I have a Lincoln 175 square wave TIG/Stick welder but during recent attempts to weld a couple of 4130 tubes on my Champ project I obviously really suck at TIG welding. After looking at youtube videos it seems that flux core welding may suitable and somewhat easier and the units are not very expensive. Interested in the collective thoughts and recommendations. (BTW I had an expert TIG weld the Champ :cool: )
Figs
 
Have you tried stick with your 175? I'd give that a try, say with an E7018 rod, before buying a MIG machine to do flux core. TiG takes some practice to master. Stick much less so and it's fine for the application you're describing.
 
If you do decide to try Stick, I'd suggest investing in a chipping hammer, wire brush and heavy-duty gloves which are things you don't need with TIG. Stick produces a lot of splatter (hence the gloves) and the weld will be covered in slag (which takes the place of a shielding gas) which will need to be knocked off (hammer and brush).
Welding gear.jpg
 
I graduated welding from YouTube University. I learned how to stick weld (built 4 of my current hangars with it) and later MIG (built all doors). Many many hours watching videos to then decide which had good and which had bad advice. MIG is very easy to control once you figure out the line feed speed and the amps to use which in my case was more trial and error than what I learned in the videos. My machine is inexpensive and very dependable. Aside from building the many hangar doors, I've also fixed my tractor and many other things on the farm with it. After many hours researching, this is the one I bought and recommend it.

 

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Flux core or stick welding should be fine. I haven't seen the plans but if you choose to go with a 110v wire feed machine pay attention to the thickness of the material. Any thicker than 3/16" you will not get adequate penetration without careful prep and a lot of time. All welding machines have a duty cycle. Meaning at a given amp output they require a cooling time between welds. Most welding machines have around a 20% duty cycle at their max output. Meaning you can weld for 2 mins then the machine needs to cool for 8 mins. The duty cycle is not listed on that harborfreight machine. But you could round down a bit from a similar name brand machine. On my production welder it's easy to manage, when the fan kicks on it's time to stop. Home and hobby welders don't have that feature.

Just something to be aware of. The machine will continue melting wire or rod, and the weld can look good. But the attachment wont be solid.
 
Take your time to master the art of the TIG. It really is not difficult to do and the results will be well worth the effort. Back in the early 1970's in high school when I was taught to weld, it was commonly called "Heli-Arc" welding because we used primarily Helium gas, or a helium mix gas for TIG welding back then. A tip is to make sure your parts are clean, that means grinding off any of the steel coating where the weld joint is. Also wipe it down with acetone and a clean rag to remove any oils or contaminants, this includes the filler rod getting wiped down also. Be careful to not touch the tip of the tungsten into the molten puddle or the metal itself. Once the puddle or the tungsten gets contaminated the weld will be a mess.
 
Flux core will work and is one of the easier methods. I use it on my tug and for general repairs as needed around the farm. I am a pretty crappy welder, but with a little practice was able to get fairly decent-looking welds using flux core.
 
I just completed Dan's tug less the joystick control which I'll finish up tomorrow. Great project. I used flux core and it worked fine. I went with Mighty Max battery, a far cry cheaper than the Odyssey he specs. The wait time for the controller was about 5 weeks. I also went with 9" wheels, 10" are nearly impossible to find used. For the round spine, I went with Dan's suggested 12" and came up short and had to use some spacers to mount the motors. Make the spine 14" for sure.
 
Jjackh10 said:
Flux core or stick welding should be fine. I haven't seen the plans but if you choose to go with a 110v wire feed machine pay attention to the thickness of the material. Any thicker than 3/16" you will not get adequate penetration without careful prep and a lot of time. All welding machines have a duty cycle. Meaning at a given amp output they require a cooling time between welds. Most welding machines have around a 20% duty cycle at their max output. Meaning you can weld for 2 mins then the machine needs to cool for 8 mins. The duty cycle is not listed on that harborfreight machine. But you could round down a bit from a similar name brand machine. On my production welder it's easy to manage, when the fan kicks on it's time to stop. Home and hobby welders don't have that feature.

Just something to be aware of. The machine will continue melting wire or rod, and the weld can look good. But the attachment wont be solid.
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Being that the machine was just $150, once I started welding I wouldn't stop the job until I was done. If it burned up I'd return it under their great 30 day warranty, but never needed to do that. I would weld a corner then stop and make sure it was square then weld the next corner, rinse and repeat. I welded the entire door and the machine kept welding nicely. Are they pretty welds? Definitely not professional looking but they are structurally good. Was the attachment solid? I did it over 4 years ago and they've survived many storms with 70 mph winds in that time, and are still like the day I welded them. Hopefully they last for a real long time but only time will tell.
 
Figs, have you talked to Ron about this? I would bet he has a lot of good advice on what you are asking.
 
I would second the recomendation to use the TIG or stick welder you already have. Either can do a fine job on this project and the time you put into improving your weld skills will be well spent. 6011 rod in 1/8 dia would be my choice for the stick. Orient your work to make horizontal welds, not vertical (if possible).
If you do decide to buy a flux-core machine, two recomendations: 1. Get a 220V machine -- they weld so much nicer, and you will have the benifit of higher capacity for thicker material. 2. Get a machine that is capable of using shielding gas. Flux-core is best used with cover gas, the low budget machines without it are not nearly as capable. So if you are going to get a machine that uses cover gas, you might as well get a MIG machine and be done with it.
My choice for a project like this would be MIG. (I'm fortunate to have all three).
 
Figs, Stick with the TIG, it's been a while since my plant engineering days where I learned to weld but practice really pays off. You may find TIG requires more finesse but so much more you can do with TIG as it applies to our "Hobby"
 
For something like this go with what you are most comfortable with. I agree, if you don’t know any, TIG is probably the most versatile for our hobby. But if you can get decent welds with what you have, go for it. A busted weld on a tug will give you another chance to practice. It is not a life ending mistake.
 
Pilot135pd said:
Being that the machine was just $150, once I started welding I wouldn't stop the job until I was done. If it burned up I'd return it under their great 30 day warranty, but never needed to do that. I would weld a corner then stop and make sure it was square then weld the next corner, rinse and repeat. I welded the entire door and the machine kept welding nicely. Are they pretty welds? Definitely not professional looking but they are structurally good. Was the attachment solid? I did it over 4 years ago and they've survived many storms with 70 mph winds in that time, and are still like the day I welded them. Hopefully they last for a real long time but only time will tell.
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It's not about burning the welder up. Duty cycle is about the machine being able to provide a clean current at the amps asked for. I'd guess you were running at less than maximum amps and probably stayed within the limits just stopping and starting.

In hindsight my comment probably wasn't relevant for this discussion. Little things like tugs don't require consistent full penetration welds. A 1/4" of weld is basically the same as a 1/4" bolt. So with 3 or 4 good tacks in each corner of your doors for instance, there would never be an issue, even in 70 mph wind. If y'all start welding on engine stands or trailer hitches it would be something to pay attention too.
 
upperdeck said:
I just completed Dan's tug less the joystick control which I'll finish up tomorrow. Great project. I used flux core and it worked fine. I went with Mighty Max battery, a far cry cheaper than the Odyssey he specs. The wait time for the controller was about 5 weeks. I also went with 9" wheels, 10" are nearly impossible to find used. For the round spine, I went with Dan's suggested 12" and came up short and had to use some spacers to mount the motors. Make the spine 14" for sure.
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I managed to find all the parts on eBay including the wheels (got the last set), finished product looks good, inspiration :)
 
Swingwing said:
Flux core will work and is one of the easier methods. I use it on my tug and for general repairs as needed around the farm. I am a pretty crappy welder, but with a little practice was able to get fairly decent-looking welds using flux core.
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And this si the largest downfall to Mig welding. You can make welds that LOOK good, but are actually really bad with poor penetration. Do what is necessary to learn the skill and iot rely upon the look of the weld to guide you.
 
Pilot135pd said:
Those types of welds are done by my neighborhood professional welder.
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LOVE TEXAS! You can't throw a rock without hitting a welder that can; weld for 4 fitters and fit for 4 welders, weld anything from the crack of dawn to a broken heart. :D
 
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