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Flush Blind Rivets

joedallas

joedallas

Well Known Member
I am contemplating using flush blind rivets in my RV12.
Is anyone doing this and what rivets are you using ?
Any help would be appreciated .

Thanks
 
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CS4's are the countersunk version of the LP4..

This would add a ton of extra work to a 12. There may be some places in the design where it would be very difficult to dimple and or countersink for flush rivets....and it would force you to go E-AB.
 
And.... if I remember correctly, the minimum grip length for CS4-4's is about .050. That is a bit long for the thickness of the material stack-ups in an RV-12.

Also., I am pretty sure that some of the wing skins are to wide to reach the center holes with the traditional C-frame tools currently available. Not that a custom one couldn't be made...just more work for vary little gain (personal opinion, some may think it worth it)
 
ErichKeane said:
Cherry seems to have a bunch of flush #4 blind rivets in varying lengths:

http://www.cherryaerospace.com/html/product/blindrivets.html

I started looking through this pdf http://www.cherryaerospace.com/files/pdf/catalog/CA-1005.pdf and it looks like there is a number of possible options.
Click to expand...

Considering that most Cherry grade rivets sell for in the neighborhood of .20 cents each (at teh bottom end, many of them are much more), I think most builders would decide that an extra $2000 just to make the airplane flush riveted is probably not worth it.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
Considering that most Cherry grade rivets sell for in the neighborhood of .20 cents each (at teh bottom end, many of them are much more), I think most builders would decide that an extra $2000 just to make the airplane flush riveted is probably not worth it.
Click to expand...

It is only a 3% increase or something in the total price. If I was doing EAB and was interested in flush rivets, the extra 2k would possibly be worth it.
 
The odd duck

Tom thanks for the Avatar

I will be make some or all changes in the list below, and I am sure it will grow

The RV 12 Kit plane is a great plane as designed.

In my opinion the following things have room for improvement

1. The rivets
2. The Fuel Tank
3. The panel
4. The rear window
5. The foot step
6. The door lock system

And I like the jab 2200 (I am not saying the jab is an improvement) Less is More: Embracing Simplicity


Any items suggested by other builders would be appreciated.

My web site will Document all the changes and be listed the same.

If it were just the rivets I would not do this.
The cookie cutter plane just doesn’t fit my designing background.

The EAA was founded by people with this attitude.


Thanks
 
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Norman CYYJ said:
If you change to flush rivets does this take the plane out of LSA?
Click to expand...

It should not remove the airplane from light-sport parameters. At these speeds, flush rivets should not noticeably affect the speeds. Mostly the reasons for using flush rivets are ease of painting, cleaning and cosmetics.
 
There are places on the -10 where you HAVE to close out using flush pulled rivets. I've had the best luck getting Cherry rivets. There ARE options if you want to go that route. Sure would look a lot better.
As has been said before.....build the plane YOU want.
 
joedallas said:
And I like the jab 2200 (I am not saying the jab is an improvement) Less is More: Embracing Simplicity


Thanks
Click to expand...

If you've got to use a Jabiru, you might want to consider the 3300 instead of the 2200.

The stock RV-12 has unexceptional climb and take-off performance, and if you install the Jabiru 2200, you'll reduce the power by 20% and decrease the prop's thrust by reducing its diameter - the Jabiru engines turn the prop faster than the Rotax.

Both of these will hurt the take-off and climb performance.
 
Mel said:
It should not remove the airplane from light-sport parameters. At these speeds, flush rivets should not noticeably affect the speeds. Mostly the reasons for using flush rivets are ease of painting, cleaning and cosmetics.
Click to expand...

Mel,
Are you saying E-LSA is possible with flush rivets?
 
NO!

Bruce Russell said:
Mel,
Are you saying E-LSA is possible with flush rivets?
Click to expand...

The question was about whether or not the aircraft would qualify as light-sport. I understood this to mean, could the aircraft be flown by a sport pilot.

To qualify for E-LSA the aircraft must be built precisely to the plans. Flush rivets would disqualify the aircraft from E-LSA.
 
True LSA

David Paule said:
If you've got to use a Jabiru, you might want to consider the 3300 instead of the 2200.

The stock RV-12 has unexceptional climb and take-off performance, and if you install the Jabiru 2200, you'll reduce the power by 20% and decrease the prop's thrust by reducing its diameter - the Jabiru engines turn the prop faster than the Rotax.

Both of these will hurt the take-off and climb performance.
Click to expand...

The 3300 would remove the plane from LSA

If I was to consider the 3300, I would build the RV9.

The LSA is favorable as I am in good health, 66 years old and don?t want to worry about a medical.

This will be a True Light Sport Aircraft
This will be the plane I want

Thanks
 
Thanks MEL!

Mel said:
Flush rivets would disqualify the aircraft from E-LSA.
Click to expand...

That was my interpretation as well, I just wanted to hear it from the expert. Thanks for the clarification Mel.

My two cents on the flush rivets: Build the plane to plans and spend that extra time flying this sweet little bird. I have almost 70hrs on mine and have flown it from Georgia to Aurora,OR and back. This airplane will never be a speed demon, so build it as quickly as possible and enjoy flying it.
 
joedallas said:
The 3300 would remove the plane from LSA

If I was to consider the 3300, I would build the RV9.

The LSA is favorable as I am in good health, 66 years old and don?t want to worry about a medical.

This will be a True Light Sport Aircraft
This will be the plane I want

Thanks
Click to expand...

Why would the 3300 make it not LSA compliant? As long as it doesn't exceed 138 mph, it'll be LSA compliant.
 
to close to call

ErichKeane said:
Why would the 3300 make it not LSA compliant? As long as it doesn't exceed 138 mph, it'll be LSA compliant.
Click to expand...

The modifications required to keep the weight and balance, the modifications I will require and the possible addition of a larger tank will put me to close to the 1320 LBS limit with two 200 lbs Occupants

I am not saying this can?t be accomplished
This is not the sport plane I want

And the speed limit could be a problem
Van has the speed listed at 131

And the rotax is only 90 to 95 HP +- at cruise
The 3300 is 120 Hp
And with flush rivets it could add 3 mph at that speed

You could falsify reports and maybe get buy That?s not for ME


This is to close to call at this time

The only real advantage is rate of clime

Thanks
 
Thats a valid point, though with the 120hp motor, you could just pitch the prop more for climb, and not have a problem.
 
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