Florida to Puerto Rico- KFLL-MBPV-TJBQ-KJFA

[roadrunner20]

My son just accepted a position with DHS, Marine Interdiction in Farjardo PR.
I'm considering flying out next year & wanted a PIREP.
Here's the international route: KFLL-MBPV-TJBQ-KJFA.
Looks to be a 5.5-6.0 hr route with one fuel stop at Turks & Caicos.
Anyone flown this route or can you recommend an alternative?

 

[clarenceoveur]

Check out Guil Barros you tube channel. He flew this route on his way to South America.

 

[Pilot135pd]

My son just accepted a position with DHS, Marine Interdiction in Farjardo PR.
I'm considering flying out next year & wanted a PIREP.
Here's the international route: KFLL-MBPV-TJBQ-KJFA.
Looks to be a 5.5-6.0 hr route with one fuel stop at Turks & Caicos.
Anyone flown this route or can you recommend an alternative?

I feel sorry for you for 2 reasons. I also did that flight and it's boring !! Lots of blue water for hours. Plan for it to be longer because of the ever changing easterly winds in the Caribbean. Fajardo was great before they closed Roosey Roads.

 

[roadrunner20]

I feel sorry for you for 2 reasons. I also did that flight and it's boring !! Lots of blue water for hours. Plan for it to be longer because of the ever changing easterly winds in the Caribbean. Fajardo was great before they closed Roosey Roads.

Wow! I would have thought, I'd just be following the Bahamian chain & within gliding distance in the event of an issue & not open water. I've flown to the islands several times & always had an island in sight. Always beautiful.

 

[roadrunner20]

Check out Guil Barros you tube channel. He flew this route on his way to South America.

Thanks. I'll check it out.

 

[Pilot135pd]

Wow! I would have thought, I'd just be following the Bahamian chain & within gliding distance in the event of an issue & not open water. I've flown to the islands several times & always had an island in sight. Always beautiful.

Well I flew it alone at 10,000' and in a Grumman AG5B Tiger, so maybe you'll enjoy it more.

 

[roadrunner20]

Well I flew it alone at 10,000' and in a Grumman AG5B Tiger, so maybe you'll enjoy it more.

Thanks. Did you need a fuel stop or fly direct? If so, where?

 

[Pilot135pd]

I flew : Fort Lauderdale - Stella Maris - Turks & Caicos - Puerto Plata - Mayaguez - San Juan. Got fuel at every stop.

 

[Mconner7]

How much water

You can certainly keep a much more foot dry route if you don’t mind adding a few miles. Unless you live in FLL, I would go KSUA to West end and follow Grand Bahamas Island. I would also deviate south toward Puerto Plata then Punta Cana, that leg from GTK to SJU is a long way over water.

 

[MarkW]

I was thinking along the same lines.
I usually fly into and out of KFPR since they have a Customs.
Then maybe MYEH North Eleuthera for fuel.
I think most the RV guys/gals have been adding Puerta Plata for fuel to keep the leg shorter.
Maybe one on the Cards will step in shortly.

 

[GalinHdz]

I have done that trip 5 times and it isn't a big deal. Four times in my airplane (2010, 2011, 2013 & 2014) and once ferrying a friends airplane (2017). You can read about them at the ADVENTURES section of our webpage. Your planned path (KFLL-MBPV-TJBQ-KJFA) will not work. PM me if you want to talk about the planning and how best to do that exact trip.


BTW, I am a retired Special Agent with DHS and spent 8yrs working in PR. Here is a photo of one of the cases with the Fajardo marine unit a long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away. I am the one in the white shirt and glasses 2nd from the left in the back row.

 

[roadrunner20]

I have done that trip 5 times and it isn't a big deal. Four times in my airplane (2010, 2011, 2013 & 2014) and once ferrying a friends airplane (2017). You can read about them at the ADVENTURES section of our webpage. Your planned path (KFLL-MBPV-TJBQ-KJFA) will not work. PM me if you want to talk about the planning and how best to do that exact trip.


BTW, I am a retired Special Agent with DHS and spent 8yrs working in PR. Here is a photo of one of the cases with the Fajardo marine unit a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. I am the one in the white shirt and glasses 2nd from the left in the back row.

View attachment 51901

Thanks Galin. I will certainly share this with my son.

 

[roadrunner20]

You can certainly keep a much more foot dry route if you don’t mind adding a few miles. Unless you live in FLL, I would go KSUA to West end and follow Grand Bahamas Island. I would also deviate south toward Puerto Plata then Punta Cana, that leg from GTK to SJU is a long way over water.

Yes, Makes sense. I've flown that direct route from Clearwater to SUA over Freeport to Treasure Key & Marsh Harbour many times. I was looking at KFLL so I could fly the Bimini/Andros... Looks like most have suggested heading towards Puerto Plata. I'll connect with Galin as I'm sure he has some great insight having done it several times.

 

[GalinHdz]

FWIW my route has always been KFPR-PBI-MYEF-PBN-MDPP-TJBQ with stops at MYEF and MDPP as needed. From TJBQ it is an easy local flight to TJRV. This keeps me over land the longest and refuel where it is normally "least expensive" (KFPR, MYEF, MDPP & TJBQ). You can rent "water survival equipment" for the trip at KFPR if needed.

I avoid landing at Providenciales (MBPV) if possible since it is expensive and not very friendly to small GA airplanes. The longest over water leg on this route is between Florida and the Bahamas so no big deal. You can expect a constant 10-15Kt headwind on your way down, but a constant 10-15Kt tailwind on your way back.

Going down you have to clear Customs & Immigration at each place you stop (MYEF, MDPP & TJBQ). Returning you also have to clear Immigration & Customs at each place you stop (MDPP, MYEF & KFPR) so plan accordingly. Using a local handler at MYEF and MDPP makes these stops so much easier and faster.

 

[roadrunner20]

FWIW my route has always been KFPR-PBI-MYEF-PBN-MDPP-TJBQ with stops at MYEF and MDPP as needed. From TJBQ it is an easy local flight to TJRV. This keeps me over land the longest and refuel where it is normally "least expensive" (KFPR, MYEF, MDPP & TJBQ). The longest over water leg is between Florida and the Bahamas. You can expect a constant 10-15Kt headwind on your way down, but a constant 10-15Kt tailwind on your way back.

You have to clear Customs & Immigration at each stop (MYEF, MDPP & TJBQ) so plan accordingly. Using a local handler at MYEF and MDPP makes these stops so much easier and faster.

Here is a link to the route: https://skyvector.com/?ll=23.177397...10&fpl=N0140 KFPR PBI MYEF PVN MDPP TJBQ TJRV

Thanks Galin. That's similiar to the route I was looking to do, except for the MDPP stop. I prefer your stop there, as it really reduces the over water section at the end of the day. I've saved your route.

 

[GalinHdz]

Thanks Galin. That's similiar to the route I was looking to do, except for the MDPP stop. I prefer your stop there, as it really reduces the over water section at the end of the day. I've saved your route.

If you are tired and decide to spend the night, MDPP is the least expensive place for a nice hotel stay in the Caribbean. The FBO there can even set it up. Believe me, I have stayed there more than once. BTW, my wife reminded me I helped a friend bring his airplane back in 2015, so I have done this flight six times.

 

[roadrunner20]

If you are tired and decide to spend the night, MDPP is the least expensive place for a nice hotel stay in the Caribbean. The FBO there can even set it up. Believe me, I have stayed there more than once. BTW, my wife reminded me I helped a friend bring his airplane back in 2015, so I have done this flight six times.

Very cool. I'll consider an overnight at MDPP. My son will be reporting in June, so I will look at flying out before the active hurricane season or after. Looking at some of the fuel prices, I was surprised they were so reasonable.

 

[roadrunner20]

Is an eAPIS manifest required to enter/depart PR?

 

[Pilot135pd]

Yes because you're coming from another country into the United States (Puerto Rico). Back when I worked in Customs in PR, they changed the rules and added that planes that took off from PR for a joy flight, over St Thomas for example, but never landed anywhere then returned to PR, still had to clear Customs. One reason was because there was such spotty radar coverage you really didn't know if the person landed somewhere or not.

 

[roadrunner20]

Yes because you're coming from another country into the United States (Puerto Rico). Back when I worked in Customs in PR, they changed the rules and added that planes that took off from PR for a joy flight, over St Thomas for example, but never landed anywhere then returned to PR, still had to clear Customs. One reason was because there was such spotty radar coverage you really didn't know if the person landed somewhere or not.

I was thinking, because there's no ADIZ, I'd be exempt.
Sooo, If I were to land at St. Thomas, I'd have to create an in/out eAPIS for both PR & St Thomas, since they're both US Territories?
I guess I'm spoiled with the C7A Bahamas Cruising Permit.

 

[Pilot135pd]

Not because they're territories, but because the Caribbean has a special rule for the area. I suggest researching the CURRENT rules for the Caribbean before you fly down there since they could have changed last night for all I know.

 

[roadrunner20]

Not because they're territories, but because the Caribbean has a special rule for the area. I suggest researching the CURRENT rules for the Caribbean before you fly down there since they could have changed last night for all I know.

Thanks, I will. I'll be at SNF in April. Usually DR & PR have booths to promote flying there.

 

[Flyyak]

I have read many times in our forum about trips to the Bahamas and it has been a bucket list desire but I have often wondered in the event of an engine failure the best safe way for a force water landing with a tip-up canopy. Also, what safety equipment is required?

 

[roadrunner20]

I have read many times in our forum about trips to the Bahamas and it has been a bucket list desire but I have often wondered in the event of an engine failure the best safe way for a force water landing with a tip-up canopy. Also, what safety equipment is required?

My times flying to the Bahamas, I left from Tampa Bay. It's 40 minutes to the east coast, engine is purring and 10-15 minutes you see the islands. If ever I had an engine out & not within gliding distance to any airport, I'd aim for a cruise ship. Life vests are required & rafts optional. We both wear our inflatable vests & have an emergency bag within arms reach. I'm not sure about ditching with a tip up. With a slider, you open the latch prior to ditching.

 

[RV8JD]

I have read many times in our forum about trips to the Bahamas and it has been a bucket list desire but I have often wondered in the event of an engine failure the best safe way for a force water landing with a tip-up canopy. Also, what safety equipment is required?

Below are links to past threads on water landings. Some good nuggets of info in them.

Successful water landing

Looks like a 9a went into the drink somewhere and someone caught some pics. The pilot made it out safely. I stand corrected. It was a 6A https://twitter.com/myedmondsnews/status/1431044894328451076?s=20

vansairforce.net

Ditching an RV

I have done a lot of over water in singles. My last 10 years was in a Grumman Tiger which has a lot in common with our RV?s when it comes to egress after a ditching. I have developed the theory that the almost immediate nose over is the greatest risk. I have decided that, just before...

vansairforce.net

Water Landing, Ditching, Tip-Up, On or Off

Hey folks, I was reading this thread regarding ditching: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=12771 and there did not seem to be a clear consensus about the best course of action. The scenario being, a controlled, engine out landing over water with a TIP-UP, what is the...

vansairforce.net

Water landings in an RV?

I'm talking about ditching the airplane. Anyone either done it or know of anyone who has done it? What was the outcome? I've kind of assumed that the tall gear on mine would certainly cause me to flip. After which I would be hanging upside down by the belts, having only have seconds to get the...

vansairforce.net

Preparing for emergency landings (canopy)

I just finished reading the "I Learned about Flying From That" in the latest Flying magazine about an emergency water landing down in Mexico when the engine quit. It would appear that they did everything right and walked away from the accident alive. When I read these types of articles, I...

vansairforce.net

 

[roadrunner20]

Below are links to past threads on water landings. Some good nuggets of info in them.

Successful water landing

Looks like a 9a went into the drink somewhere and someone caught some pics. The pilot made it out safely. I stand corrected. It was a 6A https://twitter.com/myedmondsnews/status/1431044894328451076?s=20

vansairforce.net

Ditching an RV

I have done a lot of over water in singles. My last 10 years was in a Grumman Tiger which has a lot in common with our RV?s when it comes to egress after a ditching. I have developed the theory that the almost immediate nose over is the greatest risk. I have decided that, just before...

vansairforce.net

Water Landing, Ditching, Tip-Up, On or Off

Hey folks, I was reading this thread regarding ditching: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=12771 and there did not seem to be a clear consensus about the best course of action. The scenario being, a controlled, engine out landing over water with a TIP-UP, what is the...

vansairforce.net

Water landings in an RV?

I'm talking about ditching the airplane. Anyone either done it or know of anyone who has done it? What was the outcome? I've kind of assumed that the tall gear on mine would certainly cause me to flip. After which I would be hanging upside down by the belts, having only have seconds to get the...

vansairforce.net

Preparing for emergency landings (canopy)

I just finished reading the "I Learned about Flying From That" in the latest Flying magazine about an emergency water landing down in Mexico when the engine quit. It would appear that they did everything right and walked away from the accident alive. When I read these types of articles, I...

vansairforce.net

Great info here.
After reading this, I stand by my option to unlatch the slider. Mentally, I always considered & envisioned the flare up & belly flop for the ditch, but hadn't considered the "flaps up". Flaps up, would be my preference for a retractable gear, but I'm not sold on it for a fixed gear.

 

[GalinHdz]

I was thinking, because there's no ADIZ, I'd be exempt.
Sooo, If I were to land at St. Thomas, I'd have to create an in/out eAPIS for both PR & St Thomas, since they're both US Territories?
I guess I'm spoiled with the C7A Bahamas Cruising Permit.

The ADIZ has nothing to do with US Customs. There is no ADIZ between the US and Canada, but you still have to clear US Customs when you travel between Canada and the US.

The USVI are US Customs "free" zones, Customs tariffs/rules are different than the rest of the US. PR has the same Customs tariffs/rules as the rest of the US. If you travel from the USVI to any place in the US, to include PR, you have to clear US Customs.

If you fly IFR nonstop between mainland US and Puerto Rico above 12,000ft you do not have to clear US Customs since you went from one US Customs part of the US to another. Just like flying from Florida to Georgia. That is why you don't clear Customs on airline flights between mainland US airports and PR airports. But don't forget US Dpt of Agriculture which has different requirements.

I recommend you check the "Know before you go" portion of US Customs or check with a US Customs agent for details. Your son will be a US Customs agent and up on the latest rules/regulations when he graduates from FLETC.

 

[roadrunner20]

The ADIZ has nothing to do with US Customs. There is no ADIZ between the US and Canada, but you still have to clear US Customs when you travel between Canada and the US.

The USVI are US Customs "free" zones, Customs tariffs/rules are different than the rest of the US. PR has the same Customs tariffs/rules as the rest of the US. If you travel from the USVI to any place in the US, to include PR, you have to clear US Customs.

If you fly IFR nonstop between mainland US and Puerto Rico above 12,000ft you do not have to clear US Customs since you went from one US Customs part of the US to another. Just like flying from Florida to Georgia. That is why you don't clear Customs on airline flights between mainland US airports and PR airports. But don't forget US Dpt of Agriculture which has different requirements.

I recommend you check the "Know before you go" portion of US Customs or check with a US Customs agent for details. Your son will be a US Customs agent and up on the latest rules/regulations when he graduates from FLETC.

Thanks Galin. He starts FLETC on 2/7 & expects to be deployed early June.