Flap Hinge questions

[Rick_A]

Van's instructions give 2 options for installing the flap hinge pins. Option 1: remove a couple of hinge eyelets in the center and do 2 pins ( the same way the seats are done). Option 2: drill a hole in the aileron bracket and do one long hinge pin.

I'm leaning towards option 1. Is there a consensus on the preferred method?

 

[lorne green]

options

I've gone with option #1.
It just seems a little easier.

 

[Rivethead]

Option 1 here, Works great.

 

[Mel]

I went with option 2. I drilled the hole "just" off center so that the hinge pin can't creep out on it's own. Of course my seats have a single pin each also.

 

[BuckWynd]

I did Option 1. I agree that it was easy, and I'm always in favor of easy.

If you do #1, you'll probably want to make the hinge pins about three inches longer than needed, so you can bend them and safety them to the flap brace or something.

 

[dan]

With option 2 (ONE pin), even if the hinge pin can't creep out past the aileron bracket, it CAN creep out juuust enough to LIMIT your aileron travel (RV-7 and RV-8, not sure about the -3/4/6). The steel bracket on the aileron itself can hit it. If you do go with option 2, please, please be careful about this. I highly recommend option 1.

I have had my flaps off a few times, and it's really no trouble with option 1.

 

[RV7Guy]

Option 1

I used option 1. Sure makes things easy when it comes time to paint. (Doesn't apply to Dan ) The pins have not moved at all.

The PITA with flap removal is undoing the linkage!!

 

[dan]

The PITA with flap removal is undoing the linkage!!

The key there is retracting the flaps halfway. It puts the pushrod at an angle where you can get the threaded rod end clear of the flap. At least on my setup, retracting the flaps a bit goes a long way.

 

[Brantel]

With option 2 (ONE pin), even if the hinge pin can't creep out past the aileron bracket, it CAN creep out juuust enough to LIMIT your aileron travel (RV-7 and RV-8, not sure about the -3/4/6). The steel bracket on the aileron itself can hit it. If you do go with option 2, please, please be careful about this. I highly recommend option 1.

I have had my flaps off a few times, and it's really no trouble with option 1.

Amen, After watching the Orndorf videos where he recommends option 2, I advised a local RV6 builder about this option and he went ahead and drilled the hole. Later he found that the rod can work its way out and limit the travel by interfearing with the bracket. Not a good option.....

 

[mikegraycmg]

Bend it

That's why you bend the rod after the hole is drilled, just so it won't go through the hole. You bend it back if you want to take it out. A 1/8" bend is all you need -- just enough so it doesn't meet the hole and try to work its way through.

 

[Brantel]

That's why you bend the rod after the hole is drilled, just so it won't go through the hole. You bend it back if you want to take it out. A 1/8" bend is all you need -- just enough so it doesn't meet the hole and try to work its way through.

Mike, sounds simple, but this issue has nothing to do with the hole drilled in the aluminum attach/bearing bracket, it is where the rod can interfear with the steel aileron hinge bracket preventing full travel. Unless you trap the rod (which is the entire point of this thread), it can cause a possible problem with the ailerons. After seeing this with my own eyes, I would never recommend someone use option #2....

 

[dan]

Mike, sounds simple, but this issue has nothing to do with the hole drilled in the aluminum attach/bearing bracket, it is where the rod can interfear with the steel aileron hinge bracket preventing full travel. Unless you trap the rod (which is the entire point of this thread), it can cause a possible problem with the ailerons. After seeing this with my own eyes, I would never recommend someone use option #2....

I'm not by my airplane, but I'm sure somebody can take a photo of what Brian and I are talkin' about.

Put the hinge in and then intentionally work it outboard. Then look at the inboard aileron hinge steel bracket as the aileron actuates UP. You'll see the steel contact the hinge pin. And on my RV-7, it contacted the pin BEFORE reaching the travel limit.

Not likely to kill you...you would still have some range of travel even if both flaps' pins worked their way out to jam both ailerons. But do you want to fly with limited aileron travel? C'mon!

 

[Mel]

You guys are over condemning the single pin option. After you insert the pin, you capture the outboard end to prevent it's coming out far enough to interfere with the aileron. The 2-pin method is certainly acceptable but the single pin method has served me well for over 14 years.

 

[dan]

How do you capture the end? I assume you mean you bend the end and safety it. If so, is it possible to remove the pin afterward, with the end bent like that?

I'm probably missing something very simple here. Please enlighten me!

 

[Mel]

I just put a small piece of "formed" angle over the end of the pin. Easily removable.

 

[Brantel]

You guys are over condemning the single pin option. After you insert the pin, you capture the outboard end to prevent it's coming out far enough to interfere with the aileron. The 2-pin method is certainly acceptable but the single pin method has served me well for over 14 years.

I am not condeming any method that trully captures the pin but the option to just drill an off center hole in the attach bracket and insert the pin and forget it method should not be used. Sounds like you added another option to do this plus install a blocking device to prevent the pin from getting into the aileron hinge.

 

[swisseagle]

PICTURE for more clarity!

Hello

Right from my buildplace, pictures that say more than words!

The Aileronbracket starts touching the Flaphinge-Pin at 25? up aileron.
Vans says: Ailerontravel should be min. 25?/max. 32?

This happens only if the pin move in direction of the aileron, this maybe can be stoped by a hole in the last eyelet of the hinge and a pice of safetywire.

Here is my solution, I know, a little bit complicatet, but it should work fine. The nylonsquare will be screwed into an K1000-8 nutplate which is riveted to the flapbrace. No "fumbling" with safetywire in the smal gap between the flap and wingskin.

What do you think about this solution (not drilled yet, waiting for Vans aproval)?


Thanks alot, regards

Dominik
Slowbuild RV-7A
Switzerland

 

[Guy Prevost]

I did something similar, but just used a couple of hinge eyelets:

Guy

 

[dan]

This happens only if the pin move in direction of the aileron, this maybe can be stoped by a hole in the last eyelet of the hinge and a pice of safetywire.

That would work (or a small cotter pin instead of safety wire), but how do you get the hinge pin out later if you need to remove the flap? I don't recall having enough room to push/poke from the inboard end.

 

[dbuds2]

ANother flap hinge pin solution

I read all the posts and came up with this idea. I used the single pin method, made absolutely sure that the aileron at full deflection won't bind with the flap hinge pin. I plan to squeeze the most inboard hinge eyelet to keep the pin from creeping in. I drilled a .125 hole directly in line with the flap hinge pin and have placed an AN470 rivet in the hole. I'll secure the rivet with safety wire or may just adjust the pin's overall length to always be loading the rivet in place.

 

[JakeLewis22]

Single pin capture?

Has anyone been able to capture a single flap hinge pin? The idea of drilling a hole in the last outboard hinge eye and putting safety wire through it seems like a simple solution. Has anyone tried this or does anyone have any comments about doing it this way?

 

[JonJay]

#2, no capture

You guys are over condemning the single pin option. After you insert the pin, you capture the outboard end to prevent it's coming out far enough to interfere with the aileron. The 2-pin method is certainly acceptable but the single pin method has served me well for over 14 years.

Agreed. Mine will slightly touch at full deflection, causes no problem. Either method is fine, #2 is oh so simple.

 

[dhall_polo]

nice

I like the use of the hinges.

Gee, I was thinking of just drilling a hole and adding a little safety wiring.

In your pic, everything looks golden, like the spar color. Are you a master alodiner?

I did something similar, but just used a couple of hinge eyelets:

Guy

 

[GAHco]

I went for #2, but...

I went for #2, but, some of the #1 options shown were very well done.

To see what I did on both end of the flap pin, here is a picture.

The hole in my aileron hinge bracket lines up with my pin and thats Ok.

The nuts are self locking, the hinge pin is stainless cad 2 plated and all control hinges are preflight checklist items.

 

[Guy Prevost]

I like the use of the hinges.

Gee, I was thinking of just drilling a hole and adding a little safety wiring.

In your pic, everything looks golden, like the spar color. Are you a master alodiner?

Thanks! I'm using PPG's DX1791 / DX 1792 self etching wash primer. It is a chromating primer, so it looks and behaves something like a spray-on alodine.

Guy

 

[JakeLewis22]

I like it!

GAHco,

I like it, simple is good!

If this airplane is flying, have you had any issues with the nuts coming loose?
And if the answer is no, do you recall what size the nut is?

 

[GAHco]

Still a work in progress.

GAHco,

I like it, simple is good!

If this airplane is flying, have you had any issues with the nuts coming loose?
And if the answer is no, do you recall what size the nut is?

Its not flying yet. I expect no issue with loosening.

I have all the airframe done, except the fuselage (slow build)

The nut was anMS21043-04, you could just as easily use MS21042L04, or MS21042-04.

TIP, leave the pin long enough to allow about 1/4" extra including the hinge , the nuts and a couple threads after the nuts. This allows you to hold the pin from rotation ( needle nose vise grips) while taking the nut of with a very tiny wrench.

You can use Vans supplied hinge, but I did not, I used the same thing in the structural version. MS20001P3-2700,

http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/IMAGES/PDF/MS20001.PDF

I had to cut it to the correct length. I did this with the pin out. This left the pin way too long, it is after I fit the flap on and put the longer pin in. I then measured and cut the pin to the required functional length, and used a good quality 4-40 die to cut the threads.

If the Vans Pin is not long enough, the 6ft replacement # is MS20253P2-7200

http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/IMAGES/PDF/MS20253.PDF

Remember the old addage when cutting to length an be careful.

"I cut the darn thing three times, and its still to short"

Whatever way you ultimately choose best wishes and Have Fun!