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Firewall Sealant for RV-12
- Thread starter meadeduck
- Start date
steve wyman
Well Known Member
I called to order the sealant a couple of days ago and got the same answer. I couldn't find it around her locally, so VANS just said to use something like Permatex high temp gasket sealer. Steve
If you are talking about the seams between the three firewall panels as described in the construction manual , you do not want the firewall sealant.
It is very thick, intended only for sealing and fire proofing wire penetrations etc.
The best choice from Van's would be the small (1 oz?) fuel tank sealant kit.
Note...do not use silicone based gasket sealer anywhere you are going to paint (such as sealing the interior perimeter of the firewall) If/when you paint the cockpit interior, paint will not stick to the silicone sealant.
It is very thick, intended only for sealing and fire proofing wire penetrations etc.
The best choice from Van's would be the small (1 oz?) fuel tank sealant kit.
Note...do not use silicone based gasket sealer anywhere you are going to paint (such as sealing the interior perimeter of the firewall) If/when you paint the cockpit interior, paint will not stick to the silicone sealant.
Bruce Russell
Well Known Member
I don't think Aircraft Spruce carries anything other than the Permatex.
RV 12 Firewall Sealant
I called Vans back and Scott said he had checked with the tech guys and they said in order to keep E-LSA specs, not to use the Permatex. I was given a number to call and they are sending me firewall sealant to use on the RV12. If it works out ok, they want me to forward their phone number to everyone.
I just checked and a guy named Ralph Roppo at PPG has a sealant SP 700 which should fill the bill. His cell number is 206-450-0849 and he welcomes inquiries.
Meade and George
#16
I called Vans back and Scott said he had checked with the tech guys and they said in order to keep E-LSA specs, not to use the Permatex. I was given a number to call and they are sending me firewall sealant to use on the RV12. If it works out ok, they want me to forward their phone number to everyone.
I just checked and a guy named Ralph Roppo at PPG has a sealant SP 700 which should fill the bill. His cell number is 206-450-0849 and he welcomes inquiries.
Meade and George
#16
Last edited:
MartySantic
Well Known Member
Meade,
Please clarify. Was the SP700 sealant, that you are procurring approved by Van's in place of the MC-CS-1900 Firewall Sealant?
Which brings up a question. When deviating from the plans, do we need a document from Van's that approves the deviation?
Please clarify. Was the SP700 sealant, that you are procurring approved by Van's in place of the MC-CS-1900 Firewall Sealant?
Which brings up a question. When deviating from the plans, do we need a document from Van's that approves the deviation?
DGlaeser
Well Known Member
Fuel tank sealant is not good for the firewall because it burns
I was told by Vans Friday that the red plane used fuel sealant...the Flamemaster stuff is too thick....they are planning to re-write the page and suggest fuel sealant instead. It is only to seal gases...not flames.
That said, I have purchased the MC-CS-1900 from Aviall in Dallas for $21.95 for a 6oz tube...and they have a hazmat license to fedex. I will need it anyway later on I know for the wiring.
So anyway....if I were you all I would call Vans Monday before I proceeded with the firewall sealant.
my 2 cents.
Pete
That said, I have purchased the MC-CS-1900 from Aviall in Dallas for $21.95 for a 6oz tube...and they have a hazmat license to fedex. I will need it anyway later on I know for the wiring.
So anyway....if I were you all I would call Vans Monday before I proceeded with the firewall sealant.
my 2 cents.
Pete
Fuel tank sealant is not good for the firewall because it burns
You need to know what the specific use is before generically saying it is not good for the firewall.
In this application it is the best choice. At this point of construction all it is being used for is to seal two lap joints between three different parts that make up the firewall so that they are sealed to oil wicking etc. It ends up being a layer of sealant probably only .005" thick. It in no way is meant to provide any fire protection.
Fuel Tank Sealant
Dennis, I received an email from Joe Blank at Vans and he said it was ok to use the gas tank sealant on the firewall; this is really getting confusing. He also said that they were rewriting the specs and that they were going to have a sealant that they can send out to us on the firewall.
Meade
Dennis, I received an email from Joe Blank at Vans and he said it was ok to use the gas tank sealant on the firewall; this is really getting confusing. He also said that they were rewriting the specs and that they were going to have a sealant that they can send out to us on the firewall.
Meade
Sealant
I used the firewall sealant because I had gotten it before all of the talk of changes came up. I called Van's about the "legalities". They said to go ahead and use it because it is in the instructions. Although they are going to change them at some point.
The sealant is very easy to use. I thought it was going to be a sticky adhesive but it isn't. It is a two part so you have to do the mixing. Part one looks like tar and part two is a liquid. It mixes 100 to 2.5. It makes up a smooth rubbery paste. When it dries it is just rubber that apparently swells up when heated. The only problem is pot life. Seems to be about 20 minutes and then it turns to a ball of rubber that is not sticky but is soft. I got the pint kit that I can mix up as much as I need when I need it. If it was a one time mix and use you could not do all that needs to be done in the various places that it is used in the construction process.
I think the confusion is that Van's can't ship this stuff and can ship other material so that is what will be used. I don't think it has anything to do with one material works and another doesn't.
Rich
120002
I used the firewall sealant because I had gotten it before all of the talk of changes came up. I called Van's about the "legalities". They said to go ahead and use it because it is in the instructions. Although they are going to change them at some point.
The sealant is very easy to use. I thought it was going to be a sticky adhesive but it isn't. It is a two part so you have to do the mixing. Part one looks like tar and part two is a liquid. It mixes 100 to 2.5. It makes up a smooth rubbery paste. When it dries it is just rubber that apparently swells up when heated. The only problem is pot life. Seems to be about 20 minutes and then it turns to a ball of rubber that is not sticky but is soft. I got the pint kit that I can mix up as much as I need when I need it. If it was a one time mix and use you could not do all that needs to be done in the various places that it is used in the construction process.
I think the confusion is that Van's can't ship this stuff and can ship other material so that is what will be used. I don't think it has anything to do with one material works and another doesn't.
Rich
120002
Pilottonny
Well Known Member
PPG SP700, yeh, right! How? Where? At what price?
I to ordered some firewall sealant from Vans. I asked them to ship it to my hotel, along with all the other stuff I orderd, when I traveled to the USA a couple of weeks ago, so I could smugle it back home (to Belgium) without having to pay import duties, VAT, Customs fees, etc. I was prepared to take all the risks and guess what?.......... Vans said they were not allowed to ship it! Gees! It is a few oz. of chemicals. My god, who will ever know that it is in the parcel, along with all the other stuff, anyway!?
Ones back home, I started investigating. I found that it is produced by PPG and also found some supplier only 300 km away from where I live, that sells it. Wel, that is if I was going to pay $ 330,- for 24 oz.!!! But even worse, they have a delivery time of 14 weeks!
Actually you can use any sealer for the firewal, as it is only to keep gasses out of the cockpit. Until............ you get a FWF-fire, then you wish you would have used the proper stuff, so you would have a few minutes of extra time to get the plane on the ground, somehow, before your legs are on fire! Or, if it happened on the ground, you get the time to put the FWF-fire out, before the rest of the plane goes up in smoke.
I am going to spend a couple of extra $ 100,- if I can find the stuff somewhere! So, anybody with knowledge of a supplier for SP700 or equivalent (yes, who knows, there may be other suppliers for this kind of stuff), please speak up! Now!
Kind regards, Tonny.
I to ordered some firewall sealant from Vans. I asked them to ship it to my hotel, along with all the other stuff I orderd, when I traveled to the USA a couple of weeks ago, so I could smugle it back home (to Belgium) without having to pay import duties, VAT, Customs fees, etc. I was prepared to take all the risks and guess what?.......... Vans said they were not allowed to ship it! Gees! It is a few oz. of chemicals. My god, who will ever know that it is in the parcel, along with all the other stuff, anyway!?
Ones back home, I started investigating. I found that it is produced by PPG and also found some supplier only 300 km away from where I live, that sells it. Wel, that is if I was going to pay $ 330,- for 24 oz.!!! But even worse, they have a delivery time of 14 weeks!
Actually you can use any sealer for the firewal, as it is only to keep gasses out of the cockpit. Until............ you get a FWF-fire, then you wish you would have used the proper stuff, so you would have a few minutes of extra time to get the plane on the ground, somehow, before your legs are on fire! Or, if it happened on the ground, you get the time to put the FWF-fire out, before the rest of the plane goes up in smoke.
I am going to spend a couple of extra $ 100,- if I can find the stuff somewhere! So, anybody with knowledge of a supplier for SP700 or equivalent (yes, who knows, there may be other suppliers for this kind of stuff), please speak up! Now!
Kind regards, Tonny.
DGlaeser
Well Known Member
Since the purpose of a firewall is to stop fire, I'd still be uncomfortable using a material that could add to the fire if one occured, instead of stopping it. I'm a bit surprised that Van's endorsed it, but who am I to argue. The chances of it causing a problem are admittedly very low.
A buddy of mine who is building a 12 used RTV. A better choice IMHO.
It's a shame that the proper material can't be shipped any more - what progress
Pilottonny
Well Known Member
Meadock, I was in Atlante at the beginning of this year and picked up $ 15.000,- worth of avionics from Aircraft Spruce, but I am not going to fly there again for the FW-Sealant!
Can you send it?
Regards, Tonny.
Can you send it?
Regards, Tonny.
Firewall sealant
I think you've got to ave a special permt to send that stuff thru the mail; that was the reason that Van's couldn't send their stuff in the mail/UPS. PPG had a permit with FedEx. I'll check at the post office, but I'm pretty sure that nothing flammable can be sent throught the post. Check with Ralph Roppo (in one of my previous posts) and they can send you some. Reference my name and you should be able to get a good price on the stuff.
Meade
I think you've got to ave a special permt to send that stuff thru the mail; that was the reason that Van's couldn't send their stuff in the mail/UPS. PPG had a permit with FedEx. I'll check at the post office, but I'm pretty sure that nothing flammable can be sent throught the post. Check with Ralph Roppo (in one of my previous posts) and they can send you some. Reference my name and you should be able to get a good price on the stuff.
Meade
Pilottonny
Well Known Member
Message!
Maede, I sent you a private message!
Regards, Tonny
Maede, I sent you a private message!
Regards, Tonny
Meade ... how many tubes do I need for my -12, when I finally get to that step?
Jerry... I just picked up my fuselage and empennage kit along with two tubes of flamemaster and a 2009 VANS calendar. Note that the flamemaster has a short shelf life. Mine was made in 4/08 and expires in 4/09.
Jeff
JerryG150
Well Known Member
hard to follow thread
I've reached page 22-02 and have not yet ordered and MC-CS-1900 Firewall Sealent. I can't find Aviall web site to order product or do I call Ralph at PPG?
When I order and receive it, I still don't know where it goes!
It states ...Smear a thin layer of MC-CS-1900 to areas of the F1201C Firewall Bottom that will be on contact with other parts.
That sounds like ... anything that touches the 1201C firewall should have a smear of MC-CS-1900 between it & the 1201C ...is that correct?
I guess I'm in a holding pattern till Monday morning when I order "something" and then'll have to wait till I receive whatever I order.
I've reached page 22-02 and have not yet ordered and MC-CS-1900 Firewall Sealent. I can't find Aviall web site to order product or do I call Ralph at PPG?
When I order and receive it, I still don't know where it goes!
It states ...Smear a thin layer of MC-CS-1900 to areas of the F1201C Firewall Bottom that will be on contact with other parts.
That sounds like ... anything that touches the 1201C firewall should have a smear of MC-CS-1900 between it & the 1201C ...is that correct?
I guess I'm in a holding pattern till Monday morning when I order "something" and then'll have to wait till I receive whatever I order.
Jerry
You can cleco the parts together and continue if you want. That is what I did. The Firewall sealant is not fun to work with ( at least what I received ). I would do what it says. Wherever it touch other pieces, smear some on. It is VERY MESSY. Don't have a lot of time to waste either.
John Bender
Iowa
You can cleco the parts together and continue if you want. That is what I did. The Firewall sealant is not fun to work with ( at least what I received ). I would do what it says. Wherever it touch other pieces, smear some on. It is VERY MESSY. Don't have a lot of time to waste either.
John Bender
Iowa
JerryG150
Well Known Member
RV-12 Section 22
On the Service Bulletin for section 22 for the RV12 it only mentions MC-240-B1/2 on page 22-03 step 4 ...
Rv-12 section 22 Service Bulletin ... click here.
It states:
Smear a thin layer of MC-240-B1/2 Tank Sealant on the top flanges of the F1201-C Firewall Bottom and the F F1217A-L & R Tunnel Ribs ...
Did a lot of clecoing and not much riveting today (thanks JBPilot) ... figure it's safer till I know what's what.
Perhaps they simplified the procedure, wouldn't that be nice?
I'll call Van's builder assistance tomorrow morning and ask a few questions as well as order some MC-240-B1/2 Tank Sealant.
On the Service Bulletin for section 22 for the RV12 it only mentions MC-240-B1/2 on page 22-03 step 4 ...
Rv-12 section 22 Service Bulletin ... click here.
It states:
Smear a thin layer of MC-240-B1/2 Tank Sealant on the top flanges of the F1201-C Firewall Bottom and the F F1217A-L & R Tunnel Ribs ...
Did a lot of clecoing and not much riveting today (thanks JBPilot) ... figure it's safer till I know what's what.
Perhaps they simplified the procedure, wouldn't that be nice?
I'll call Van's builder assistance tomorrow morning and ask a few questions as well as order some MC-240-B1/2 Tank Sealant.
Jerry
If you look at the updated pages on the Van's site, you will see they have changed many of the original procedures. They changed when you need to seal, and how to finish it up. They now say you can basically go around the perimeter to finish it up. They do want some between the shelf and lower plate. The problem is, as far as I am concerned, you mix the tank sealant, and you need everything ready or it will set up in 1/2 hour or so. You will need another tube or so in that case. The tank sealer is way messy to work with in my opinion.
The Flamaster firewall sealer I received seems VERY thick and hard to work with. I'd like to know if others found the same thing. Maybe mine is older than labeled.
John Bender
Iowa
If you look at the updated pages on the Van's site, you will see they have changed many of the original procedures. They changed when you need to seal, and how to finish it up. They now say you can basically go around the perimeter to finish it up. They do want some between the shelf and lower plate. The problem is, as far as I am concerned, you mix the tank sealant, and you need everything ready or it will set up in 1/2 hour or so. You will need another tube or so in that case. The tank sealer is way messy to work with in my opinion.
The Flamaster firewall sealer I received seems VERY thick and hard to work with. I'd like to know if others found the same thing. Maybe mine is older than labeled.
John Bender
Iowa
Source for CS-1900
Guys,
Been following this thread. I did a Google search and came up with this company. Sent in an inquiry and got the following response this AM. Hope this helps.
John
John:
Yes we can ship CS1900, it is a Hazmat Item, so if we ship UPS Ground it will be $20.00 + Shipping Charges or any of the UPS Airs it will be $30.00 + Shipping Charges. We have it in 1/2 Pt. @ $26.00/Ea.; Pt. @ $43.00/Ea. I am out of stock right now, but should have some in next week, approx. 12/22.
Thank you,
Kathy Balfour
Sealpak Company Inc.
[email protected] or [email protected]
12/15/2008
-------------- Original message from <[email protected]>: --------------
> *******************************************************************************
> Name: John Peck
> HomePhone: 518-725-0717
> Address1:
> Email: [email protected]
> City:
> WorkPhone1: 518-774-4898
> State: NY
> Zip: 12078
> Part1:
> Part2:
> Part3:
> Part4:
> B1: Submit
>
> Comments:
>
> Do you ship MC-CS-1900 in small quantities?
>
Guys,
Been following this thread. I did a Google search and came up with this company. Sent in an inquiry and got the following response this AM. Hope this helps.
John
John:
Yes we can ship CS1900, it is a Hazmat Item, so if we ship UPS Ground it will be $20.00 + Shipping Charges or any of the UPS Airs it will be $30.00 + Shipping Charges. We have it in 1/2 Pt. @ $26.00/Ea.; Pt. @ $43.00/Ea. I am out of stock right now, but should have some in next week, approx. 12/22.
Thank you,
Kathy Balfour
Sealpak Company Inc.
[email protected] or [email protected]
12/15/2008
-------------- Original message from <[email protected]>: --------------
> *******************************************************************************
> Name: John Peck
> HomePhone: 518-725-0717
> Address1:
> Email: [email protected]
> City:
> WorkPhone1: 518-774-4898
> State: NY
> Zip: 12078
> Part1:
> Part2:
> Part3:
> Part4:
> B1: Submit
>
> Comments:
>
> Do you ship MC-CS-1900 in small quantities?
>
CS 1900
I would like to hear from anyone who has used this product already ( especially if you have ordered it more than once ). I have some labeled 8-'08 , but it seems VERY THICK. Is that the way it is ? ? ? ? ? ?
Very hard to mix it even. I have not tried to thin it with anything ( might create an explosion ! ).
John Bender
Iowa
I would like to hear from anyone who has used this product already ( especially if you have ordered it more than once ). I have some labeled 8-'08 , but it seems VERY THICK. Is that the way it is ? ? ? ? ? ?
Very hard to mix it even. I have not tried to thin it with anything ( might create an explosion ! ).
John Bender
Iowa
CS-1900
CS-1900 is thicker than regular tank sealant and (as others have already stated) tends to form a bead when applied using a Semco cartridge/if purchased from Van's in a cartridge kit. Use a thick craft stick, spread it out, and build on.
Mike
CS-1900 is thicker than regular tank sealant and (as others have already stated) tends to form a bead when applied using a Semco cartridge/if purchased from Van's in a cartridge kit. Use a thick craft stick, spread it out, and build on.
Mike
Tank Sealant
I'm about to step into the realm of applying tank sealant to the bottom flange of the upper firewall (29-03, step 1). I bought a quart of this (flamemaster CS3204) and it did not come with mixing hints. Mix ratio of 100/10 by wt. Any recommendations out there for measuring, mixing and applying this sealant?
Scott
I'm about to step into the realm of applying tank sealant to the bottom flange of the upper firewall (29-03, step 1). I bought a quart of this (flamemaster CS3204) and it did not come with mixing hints. Mix ratio of 100/10 by wt. Any recommendations out there for measuring, mixing and applying this sealant?
Scott
Scott
I mixed a batch for the same area a couple of days ago.
I used 10gr of the white stuff and 1gr of the black. Mixed it in a small plastic cup with a popsicle stick. Applied it with the same stick. Had just enough for the flange. Cleaned up the excess and drips with MEK and paper towels.
Art Pennanen
I mixed a batch for the same area a couple of days ago.
I used 10gr of the white stuff and 1gr of the black. Mixed it in a small plastic cup with a popsicle stick. Applied it with the same stick. Had just enough for the flange. Cleaned up the excess and drips with MEK and paper towels.
Art Pennanen
Firewall sealing
I read ahead and identified several separate instances where a small batch of sealant would be needed on the firewall so ordered (3) of the little 1 oz. touch up kits from Van's. Expensive way to go at 8 bucks a pop, but sure is convenient. I still do not understand why the plans specify fuel tank sealant on some areas of the firewall and firewall sealant on other areas (the perimeter). But, I am doing it like the plans say...the 3 oz. pack of firewall sealant was shipped to me in this rather large haz mat box:
That's the sealant pack on top.
I also asked Van's if you could wipe the fuel tank sealant on the rivet heads or if you had to leave a blob. They said that if the rivet head is to be covered with something (like the nose gear) then you could wipe the rivet. MEK definately will clean off excess sealant but if you already have painted the interior and you drip sealant on it, it would be probably be best to just let it dry as MEK will take off paint.
Tony
I read ahead and identified several separate instances where a small batch of sealant would be needed on the firewall so ordered (3) of the little 1 oz. touch up kits from Van's. Expensive way to go at 8 bucks a pop, but sure is convenient. I still do not understand why the plans specify fuel tank sealant on some areas of the firewall and firewall sealant on other areas (the perimeter). But, I am doing it like the plans say...the 3 oz. pack of firewall sealant was shipped to me in this rather large haz mat box:
That's the sealant pack on top.
I also asked Van's if you could wipe the fuel tank sealant on the rivet heads or if you had to leave a blob. They said that if the rivet head is to be covered with something (like the nose gear) then you could wipe the rivet. MEK definately will clean off excess sealant but if you already have painted the interior and you drip sealant on it, it would be probably be best to just let it dry as MEK will take off paint.
Tony
