FF Kit Questions

[rwtrwtau]

Ok, It is time to install the engine and I am working on purchasing the Firewall Forward Kit from Vans.

My engine is a IO-360 engine from Mattituck. More correctly, it is an 0-360 (180hp) engine with vertical updraft and injection. As this engine configuration is not sold by Vans they have recommended I purchase the 0-360 FF kit and exchange components as necessary to accommodate injection vs carb.

I have a few questions for those that have done this before.

Fuel lines:
The kit has a VA-138 and VA-129 hoses (14? and 15.5? respectively). The 14? will probably go from the firewall to the pump and the 15.5? from the pump to the intake. What, if anything do I need to go from the intake to the divider on top of the engine?

Wiring Harness:
Van supplies the complete wiring harness (ES WH 6/7/9 KIT) in the FF kit. I would like to exchange for the raw materials kit (ES EWC-KIT). Are there any major issues with this? I assume it comes with the same amount of material, just not assembled up.

Throttle Quadrant:
I?m replacing the throttle cables with a quadrant (AC Spruce P/n CMCT3L). Has anyone used this quadrant on their 7A and documented the cable lengths required?

Thanks/Regards
Richard

RV7A - Mattituck IO-360
Fitting the engine

 

[dan]

Fuel lines:
The kit has a VA-138 and VA-129 hoses (14? and 15.5? respectively). The 14? will probably go from the firewall to the pump and the 15.5? from the pump to the intake. What, if anything do I need to go from the intake to the divider on top of the engine?

Now is the perfect time to consider where your fuel flow sensor will be installed...preferably in that metered fuel line between the servo and flow divider like you mentioned. So you'd need two hoses for that.

 

[rwtrwtau]

Now is the perfect time to consider where your fuel flow sensor will be installed...preferably in that metered fuel line between the servo and flow divider like you mentioned. So you'd need two hoses for that.

Dan, I never thought of that but it seems to make good sense as a number of people have complained about pulsing from the fuel pump when installed between the pump and firewall.

Is this done on other GA aircraft and/or is it safe to secure the sensor to the engine mount, exposed to heat?

 

[Ironflight]

On your wiring choices, I was surprised when my FF kit had the harness in it, because I already had the airplane wired by then. (Fortunately, Van's had no problem taking it back!)

I didn't choose to buy the materials from Van's, because that is going to lock you into essentially the same choices they make for runs, gauges, circuits, etc. If you are planning on doing your wiring exactly like Van's, you might as well buy the completed harness - otherwise, I'd suggest getting your raw materials from a guy like Stein, and building exactly what you want - not have to compromise by what is in the kit. At least, that was my reasoning!

Paul

 

[Jekyll]

Delete the gascolator and gascolator bracket. Unless, of course, you desire to install one.

Jekyll

 

[Davepar]

My Mattituck engine came with fuel lines from the mechanical fuel pump to the servo and from the servo to the fuel divider. I didn't know it would ship with the pump/servo line, so also have one from Vans FWF kit.

I'm planning on putting the fuel flow sensor right after the fuel servo, wrapped in some fire sleeve for heat protection. Not sure yet if I'll still be able to use the same fuel line from the servo to the fuel divider.

On my engine (and I think many others), the prop governor gets in the way of the inlet to the fuel pump. I ended up using a 90 degree fitting rather than the straight fitting Vans specifies. This makes the firewall/pump fuel line a bit too long, but still seems usable. I still haven't confirmed whether the bend in the hose is too tight or not.

I just did some careful measurements for quadrant cables, but have horizontal induction. Somebody along the way said to order the same length cable as Vans specifies for the knob cables and so far that has held true for me. This depends on how you mount the quadrant, though. Also, if you order the quadrant cables from Spruce, you might want to check out the 7/15/2006 entry in my builder's log. The travel/stroke of the cable is very important.

I'll also ditto the comment about ordering electrical stuff separately. I haven't seen the Vans harness or parts, but the master kit I bought from SteinAir has so far worked out pretty well.

Dave

 

[N941WR]

Throttle Quadrant:
I?m replacing the throttle cables with a quadrant (AC Spruce P/n CMCT3L). Has anyone used this quadrant on their 7A and documented the cable lengths required?

Richard,

I?m using the two lever quadrant for my -9 after seeing a picture of Roberta?s -7A. It is an easy mod to make.

Roberta suggested ordering the cables the same length as the stock throttle cables but I elected to wait until I have the carb in place and measure the lengths to make sure because of my ?non-standard? engine.

There are some pictures of my installation on the instrument panel page of my web site.

 

[Davepar]

I'll disagree slightly and say the throttle quadrant has been the most frustrating customization I've done so far. Installing it to the panel is fairly easy. Hooking it up to the engine is not. The control cables exit the quadrant at a weird angle necessitating filing the quadrant levers or the clevis ends. It looks like I'll need to drill a new hole in the prop lever to match the throw of the prop governor. And I've had numerous issues finding the right control cables.

I'm following the "build it to plans" mantra from here on out.

 

[rwtrwtau]

Somebody along the way said to order the same length cable as Vans specifies for the knob cables and so far that has held true for me. This depends on how you mount the quadrant, though.

Hi Dave,

I have been giving this some thought and it seems to me that the routing of the cables is fairly flexible. They also have a bulkhead nut on each end if you buy from Vans, so effectively as long as they are not stupidly long, it is only the throw that is a major consideration.

Looking at your site it seems that Van's predictions about the sizes of the vernier cable were almost exactly what you measured for your engine, so at least a 48? prop cable should work fine on my aircraft.

There are indications that the mixture and throttle cables should be 45" in the case of my engine but Van does not sell anything smaller than 48? in the quadrant cable.

With all of this being the case I am leaning towards the purchase of three 48" cables from Van. I do not think 3" extra should be a problem on the mixture/throttle and may accommodate the slight differences I might have in injection vs carb.

Does this seem reasonable?

Richard

 

[Davepar]

There are indications that the mixture and throttle cables should be 45" in the case of my engine but Van does not sell anything smaller than 48? in the quadrant cable.

You can get the parts list for the FFWD kit for your aircraft/engine combo from Vans. If you're not sure about that 45" length, the list will tell you the length of the knob cables recommended.

Vans does sell custom length quadrant cables, if you want 45". The cables are not super flexible, so 3" extra might not work. It depends how much of a curve is already in the cable. For example, my throttle cable does a sweeping S from the lower firewall up to the panel, so that could easily be 3" too long. A cable that took a more direct route from the firewall to the quadrant would have more trouble.

The good thing about the 48" quadrant cable is that it's not a custom item. You should be able to return it if it doesn't work. At least I hope they take mine back. The cable housing ended up being too big around for the firewall eyeballs I already installed.

Dave