F-1011D Bracket issue

[AviatorJ]

I really hate messing up, I knew it had been too long since I made a major mistake and it was bound to happen soon. Well soon happened this weekend, well actually last week but didn't catch it till I was taking apart the tailcone.

I've contacted Vans, have sent them some pictures for their engineers to look at. Will do whatever they request or suggest - even if it's replace all the pieces fouled up... hope that's not the case though.

Here's the problem;

Mismeasured (Now know my 3/8 measurement was 5/8) for the #12 holes on the ends of the brackets. This lead to notching instead of properly putting holes in each longeron. Not only does that reduce the structural integrity but given that you have the larger notches right next to them it's probably fairly important this is structurally sound.

So while waiting to hear back from Vans here are some ideas I can up with. Would be interested what others think.

Idea #1 - This involves making a fitted bracket which would be the thickness of the longerons to be sandwiched between the Aftdeck/doubler/bracket group and a new made bracket which extends beyond covering the entire bottom of the longerons. This would allow the screws for the #12 to drive though the notches and be secured by the bottom piece which is all riveted to the aftdeck, doubler, ect.

Idea #2 - Same concept as above but involves instead trying to capture some forward rivet holes as well. So the concept is the same, first bracket is the thickness of the longerons. The paper in the below picture represents a smaller triangle bracket which would capture not only the Aftdeck/doubler/bracket group but the first forward hole as well. Could even throw in an extra rivet in the middle there.

Idea #3 - To me this one makes the most sense but may be a bit overkill... then again I don't mind overbuilding things, especially untested things. This is similar to #2 but uses a much larger triangle bracket. This bracket would capture the #12 hole, two Aftdeck/doubler/bracket group rivet holes, and two rivet holes on the longerons forward of the notch. Could also add and extra rivet hole into the aft deck to keep the middle sandwiched piece in line.

Would be interested if anyone has ever ran into anything similar and what was the resolution they used. I did have a thought of using some extra bracket material and wielding it to the notched area.. and finishing out that #12 hole. However the guy I talked to at Vans said these are tempered aluminium pieces and doing that would reduce their integrity given the high heat you have to wield at.

 

[Carl Froehlich]

Many was to fix this with a doubler and I'm sure Van's will provide guidance. The real issue is are you going to worry about it every time you hop in the plane?

The aluminum itself is cheap. The shipping cost however is crazy if this is too long to go via FedEx or UPS. If me, I'd first look for a local RV builder that has a shipment coming from Van's and have them put a couple of these pieces of angle in the box. While waiting go on to something else to keep you busy.

Carl

 

[AviatorJ]

Many was to fix this with a doubler and I'm sure Van's will provide guidance. The real issue is are you going to worry about it every time you hop in the plane?

I would feel better reinforcing this than I would replacing the longerons, the doubler, the aft deck and the bracket. It's not a time/money issue for me, it's a trying to rematch drill and fit everything ending up with elongated holes or other mishaps that might happen.

 

[AviatorJ]

As I'm waiting to find out if there's some bracket alternative... in order to correct this per plans I'll need to get these replacement parts;

F-1032-R Right Longeron
F-1032-L Left Longeron
F-1014 Aft Deck
F-1011D Attachment Bar Support Angle (AA6-125X3/4X3/4)
F-1011B Stop/Doubler

And since I'll be redrilling the Aft deck and it may or may not line up exactly like before I would also need to replace
F-1010A Horizontal Stabilizer Attachment Angle (AA6-125X1X1)
F-1010B Spacer (AS3-125 x 1.000)

These must be the times people are referring to when they want to quit building.

 

[cderk]

I feel your pain, man. I'm a few months behind you, and yes, seems like we all probably get to a point where we think to ourselves, "There is no freaking way I can do this". Happened to me with my Vertical Stabilizer. I was so frustrated and feeling like I wasn't going to be able to fix my mistake, that I sent Van's a shopping list of everything to start the whole VS over again. (for those that are interested, including shipping and rivets its about $325).

You'll figure it out. Seems like you would need to make a really big mistake to warrant starting the parts over again.

 

[flion]

Since it's the notch in the longeron that is the issue, I would be inclined to replace. I have used the idea where another builder expecting a shipment can add my long parts to his shipment to save on shipping costs.

However, another approach to doubling the longerons would be to nest some angle into the longeron across the notch. The nested longeron would need to have the outside angle radiused to fit and bucking rivets would get pretty tight there. Also, you'd still want to replace the attachment bar and doubler, though I don't think you'd need to replace the deck as long as you made sure the re-drilled holes are smoothly elongated. You would need to relieve the notches in the F-1011 bulkhead for the longeron doublers. And it would save you in replacement parts and shipping.

In any case, I'll be interested to hear what Van's has to say. It's not the end of the world (this from the guy who had to replace his entire HS skins due to a windy day accident) but, yes, this is one of those "why am I building a plane?" moments.

 

[AviatorJ]

So heard back from Vans. Their suggestion since all the parts are still loose just replace everything affected... minus the aft deck. He said the Aft deck can have an extra hole in it and not be adversely affected.

I'm still going to go ahead and replace the 1010A/B parts and doubler because you don't want extra holes in those. I also found a site where they'll make the 1011D for you. It's $21, with shipping and to me worth it to ensure it's done right this time. So all replacement parts with shipping I'm probably looking at around $80.

I am still concerned about elongating the holes or having something get put together a bit different when replacing the longerons. To minimize this going to try and match the notch and the bend of the old longerons to the new ones. Going to be a process....

 

[paul330]

All part of the joy, my man.........

 

[Evolution10]

What is the website where you had the part made!

 

[clutch22]

I also found a site where they'll make the 1011D for you. It's $21, with shipping and to me worth it to ensure it's done right this time.

Just wait till you get to the four fuselage longerons that have to be contoured. Now that would be a set of parts I would enjoy purchasing complete from someone else if I had to do it again!

 

[AviatorJ]

What is the website where you had the part made!

Not the longeron but it's the bracket I messed up on originally.

<Removed Link>

Just wait till you get to the four fuselage longerons that have to be contoured. Now that would be a set of parts I would enjoy purchasing complete from someone else if I had to do it again!

Hopefully they do that in the Philippines... I went the quickbuild route, and mistakes like these reaffirm that decision.

 

[AviatorJ]

Removed the link to the premade bracket from 'Iflyrv10'. I ordered the part on the Dec 9th, received a shipping notification on the Dec 10th. This notification never updated, so assuming they're didn't mail it. To resolve I sent several emails to various addresses last week and tried calling on Friday. No response so I jumped on Paypal to dispute the purchase.

Should of searched prior to ordering, seems other people have run into the same things and while they get their parts it takes quite a bit of time. I get that it's a part time business, it's the holiday season, ect.. I'm not upset, just want to push forward with the project and have to wait a month or so for a the angle.

Update: I did receive an email from Steve via Paypal. He said the F1011d bracket was on backorder because of the aluminum supplier and he's making them this weekend. I went ahead and decided to cancel anyhow and just go through Vans for the part. I guess at least this way I can match up all the hole, minus the longeron ones which I will redrill correctly this time.