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Exhaust Options

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I've briefly looked at exhaust systems for the RV's lately and wondered, has anyone had their own made? It seems a 'straight pipe' system would be easy enough for a metal shop to create, and then later on add a heat muff. Is this a legitimate question? or would it be best to go with a specific exhaust. We're not anywhere near needing an exhaust, but just a thought swimming around.
 
The Vetterman exhaust is most common. I added the muffler option recently and it was a great addition. You could try to piece together something, but I'd stay away from that. Vetterman exhausts are very well done and he will stand behind his craftsmanship. Plus, he's a great RV guy with lots of good stories. Really take a look at the muffler option. I wouldn't want to fly with out them any more. (okay that's a lie, but they are really sweet!)
 
I've briefly looked at exhaust systems for the RV's lately and wondered, has anyone had their own made?...

Yes. I would have a hard time buying a pre manufactured system for a homebuilt. Based largely upon the results of the CAFE foundation exhaust studies, I built a equal length 4 into 1 with 40 inch primaries. I started with a box full of mandrel bent mild steel tubing and went for it. It has been Jet Hot coated and has not given me a lick of trouble in more than 250 hours.
 
I have a friend who built a custom exhaust for his RV. Did an excellent job. With all the mandrel bends he had to buy, it cost just as much as buying one from Larry V.
 
I only have a couple hundred bucks in mine, not including a weekend of fabrication. Well worth the effort IMHO.
 
I applaud you formaking your own. For me the easiest part of my RV build was installing my Vetterman exhaust. Almost crazy how easy and quickly it went together.
 
Thanks

Thanks for all the quick respones. Looks like the Vetterman is the most popular. I just checked their website and they look like great quality. I'll have to give them a call and get a price quote. Again thanks!
 
exhaust

A small block Chevvy kit from one of the race car suppliers(Summit etc) is enough tubing to build almost two lyc crossover exhaust systems. Four flanges from Spruce, etc and your'e all set. Lots of work.
 
A small block Chevvy kit from one of the race car suppliers(Summit etc) is enough tubing to build almost two lyc crossover exhaust systems. Four flanges from Spruce, etc and your'e all set. Lots of work.

Yep, and the price for these things are all over the place. A little shopping around and you will see they range from insane to reasonable.
 
Did you ever consider just having four or six short 90? stacks coming out the bottom of each cylinder. A lot lighter and simpler and far less costly to make or buy, and they probably work better than these multi legged ones. At least they get the gas out in short order without all of the resonant back and forth from the end of the pipe up to the exhaust valve on each cylinder connected to the pipe and then reflected back toward the end and back and forth. Keep in mind that the speed of sound in an exhaust is about 1.6 to 1.9 times as fast as in air. If you're turning 2700 rpm and the exhaust lasts 180? that's 11ms. At 1350F the exhaust pressure wave goes 2086 fps, so it takes 1.4ms to go 3'. That means it can make as many as 7-8 trips back and forth during that 180?. What do you think the pressure wave will be doing to the gas in the cylinder with that much back and forth monkey motion. Each reversal reverses whether the pressure is at a peak or trough.
 
Wow, some of you guys are real crafty. There's no way I'd attempt to build my own exhaust. My hats off to you.

I have heard of every part of an RV failing. From cylinders to ignitions, cranks and props, wings and canopies. I have yet to hear of anyone that said "my Vetterman exhaust failed". There's something to be said about that.
 
Did you ever consider just having four or six short 90? stacks coming out the bottom of each cylinder. .

Short stacks work fine for a supercharged application because exhaust scavenging (or more to the point, intake charge) is taken care of by the force of the blower.

What do you think the pressure wave will be doing to the gas in the cylinder with that much back and forth monkey motion. Each reversal reverses whether the pressure is at a peak or trough.

This is where the "tuned" phrase comes into play. All that "back and forth" if timed right, creates a strong low pressure wave right at the moment of the exhaust valve opening. This scavenges the combustion chamber allowing more fresh air charge. This is exactly why highly refined naturally aspirated competition engines achieve a volumetric efficiency of more than 100%. I have read that NASCAR engines can have a VE of 125%.

Good info on aircraft exhaust found in the CAFE EPG reports found here: http://www.cafefoundation.org/v2/research_reports.php
 
If you can learn to build a whole airplane, welding a few feet of tubing is not that tough.

Sure it is. I bought a wire feed welder 10 years ago...........and still haven't got around to figuring it out! :) Has never been plugged in.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
Thanks for all the quick respones. Looks like the Vetterman is the most popular. I just checked their website and they look like great quality. I'll have to give them a call and get a price quote. Again thanks!

For sure, an exhaust system can be fabricated and made to work by a good welder but the advantage of going with Larry Vetterman is the system has been tweaked with lots of RV flight testing.

I've had an exhaust system failure in another airplane that resulted in an engine out landing. There was a design error concerning stress, a weld broke and it came apart about 4" below the cylinder.

That is a major emergency in any airplane, so do be careful if you depart from a known proven system - like what Larry Vetterman produces.
 
By the way, Mike, your sign off states the airplane is grounded for "minor" maintenance - for 12 months. Here's hoping it isn't the exhaust system....:)

Nope, that was one of the few things on the airplane that did not require attention. I am considering doing a tuned 4 into 1 for it eventually though.

...but not before I fly the heck out of it over the summer!
 
According to graphs in Colin Campbell's book The Sports Car Engine, to get resonant operation in an exhaust at 2700 rpm, the exhaust length from the valve head to the end of the pipe would have to be about 76", and for the intake would be 35". Keep in mind that the reflected pulse from the end of the pipe goes up each pipe connected to the outlet pipe, and gets reflected off each valve.

On the cylinder doing the exhaust, the reflection, with the open valve, is from the top of the piston and the resonant length is changing as the piston moves down. If all of the pipe lengths are not the same, in a matter of several reflections the phase of each reflection has changed relative to the others, and what exists then is chaos. Don't forget also that if your exhaust length is anti-resonant, you could be robbing you engine of power. The resonant length changes with rpm.

One of the things you can do to really reduce cooling drag is to make a "cheeky" cowl, as on a -3 or-4, and bring the exhaust and cooling air out immediately below each cylinder. You can even have the exhaust arranged to give augmentation to the cooling air. 'Course if you just want to practice your welding skills by cobbling something together without any real harmonic analysis exhaust design experience or knowledge of metallurgy, well fine. That's what experimental is all about!
 
For sure, an exhaust system can be fabricated and made to work by a good welder but the advantage of going with Larry Vetterman is the system has been tweaked with lots of RV flight testing...

Of course, the same thing can be said about buying a factory built aircraft vs. building your own.

...I've had an exhaust system failure in another airplane that resulted in an engine out landing. There was a design error concerning stress, a weld broke and it came apart about 4" below the cylinder...

Any critical component on an airplane should be considered with safety in mind, but just like rivet patterns, spar splices, or electrical wiring, there are a lot of standard practices available so that you don't have to be a pioneer. If you can't weld, then it is unlikely that it will make sense to learn the skill just to fabricate an exhaust. But if you do know how to weld, (and read) it's not that tough. On the other hand, we build "for education" right?
 
... 'Course if you just want to practice your welding skills by cobbling something together without any real harmonic analysis exhaust design experience or knowledge of metallurgy, well fine. That's what experimental is all about!

Did you even look at the link I provided? There is EXTENSIVE research and flight test on AIRCRAFT engines... The research has been done. All that's left is to read, interpret, and fabricate.

?And yes, this is EXACTLY what ?experimental? is about.
 
exhaust

In the early days of homebuilding, EVERYTING was hand made. It was many years before complete stainless exhaust systems became available. The Formula One racers made a huge jump in speed when they started using crossover or 4-1 exhausts. Some still use the straight exhaust but the Gold winners always have a custom exhaust. In the biplane class, Phantom is a notable exception, record speed with short, straight pipes.
 
A 360 Lyc with 8 inch straight stacks (the certification "baseline" configuration) will pick up about 8+ HP with a properly designed 4 into 1. If Phantom is winning with straight stacks, it is because the loss of HP (vs. with a 4 into 1) is more than offset by cowling shape, weight or some other factor other than HP. But make no mistake, with stub stacks he's leaving HP "on the table".
 
exhaust

I believe I read that Phantom lost speed with a different exhaust because of cowl volume. The F1's did not have this issue, larger cowl, better exhaust, more speed.
The crossover exhaust vs two collector pipes each side(stock Pitts S1) gained me 75 r/m at climb speed, which allowed me to use a higher pitch prop, which in turn gained about 8 m/h top speed. 180 hp round wing Pitts S1.
 
I believe I read that Phantom lost speed with a different exhaust because of cowl volume...

Ahhh. That makes sense. Once you are in the "Gold" at Reno, every change has consequences. If an airplane is so clean that a little bump in the cowl erases an 8 HP gain, you stick with the lower power option. Fortunately, (Unfortunately?), the typical sport aircraft is nowhere near the cutting edge of aerodynamic efficiency, so you can see an improvement in performance with HP. With my Hiperbipe speed was not the goal, but the added climb performance was a welcome trade for the extra weight of the system.
 
Of course you all know that when the engines are tested in a test cell that they use short, straight stacks. An IF1 turning 4500 rpm has a lot easier time making the necessary 22" resonant length. I read and re-read CAFE's report when it first came out and I can tell you that it showed all kinds of results all over the place. The only thing that I saw that showed any promise was the megaphone end on the pipe, since obviously when you go from a smaller diameter, higher velocity pipe to a lower velocity expansion horn the pressure must necessarily increase in order to be at static pressure at the horn's mouth. This means that it will drop the pressure at the exhaust valve aiding the crossflow from intake to exhaust giving better filling of the cylinder.

So if the CAFE results are so wonderful, why aren't all of your systems using the expansion horn. I have friends, who after polishing their cars, had their mpg shot up 20% or more. In my initial testing of planes with my prop I had to write up a test protocol so that I could receive consistent test results. When I hear claims of improved performance I am usually skeptical until I can see several tests that show before and after testing with baro pressures and predicted OATs along with measured OATs and rpms. It's not that I don't believe what people say, it's just that I've seen enough claims that in the long run had other explanations which could have accounted for what they thought they saw.
Let's see, 8 HP on a 180 HP engine is a 4.4% increase which will give a 1.5% speed increase, say 3 mph on a 200 mph plane. 8 mph speed increase on a 190 mph plane requires a 13% power increase, 23.7 more HP on a 180 HP engine. That's pretty spectacular!

I've been around Tom and his biplane since 2004, and this is the first I've ever heard of this cowl volume thingy; the next time I speak with him I'll have to get his explanation. One thing he did have in 2004 was short, straight, 8" or 10" long pipes sticking straight down from each cylinder, He and I had a discussion about the amount of drag this was creating, and that's why in 2005 he had the 90° pipes that exhaust straight back.

There's a way you can make expansion nozzles that come out the sides of the cowling that are shaped somewhat like dust pans. Based upon CAFE, that may be the way to go!
 
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phantom

I have read and reread every thing that I could fine on Phanton. It has been a long time. I could certainly be mistaken about the cowl. On my 180 Pitts, past about 180 ias, the prop was turning 3500-3600. Like hitting a wall. The airplane did not want to go any faster. The crossover exhaust allowed me to use a higher pitched prop which only turned 3300 at 200 ias. I attribute the performance increase mostly to increased prop efficiency and very little to increased horsepower.
the small increase in power allowed me to keep the same climb performance as with the flatter prop.
I could never get exited about the CAFE exhaust testing.
Speed With Efficiency is a different story. Very detailed testing with several different exhausts, proven in racing. The crossover and the four pipe are very close in performance.
Another interesting study is the original Lyc 0 235. The engine went from 100 hp to 108 hp with a small carb change and crossover exhaust. SOMEONE, either Piper or Lyc tested the crossover in those days Piper has used a crossover exhaust on nearly all their Lyc powered aircraft since the late 40's.
 
...I've been around Tom and his biplane since 2004, and this is the first I've ever heard of this cowl volume thingy...

From the EAA online rag:

...The exhaust system is notably unremarkable. Tom started out with set of long, equal length, stainless steel headers feeding a four-into-one tailpipe that collected under the engine and exited between the landing gear (under the pilot’s seat). This more elaborate exhaust system was never actually installed because the firewall size advantage gained with the dry sump would be negated if these pipes were used. Dyno testing at Lycon revealed that the four-into-one netted an 8 hp gain at wide open throttle, but Tom wasn’t convinced that the extra drag would be worth it...

http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-07_phantom.asp

How about that... 8 HP, just like the CAFE study indicates. I guess they (and every other gearhead, racer, engine builder, etc in the world) were right - Headers flat out work.

BTW, the "code" to break on the CAFE article is the 38-42 inch primaries, not the megaphone exhaust tip.
 
From the EAA online rag:

...The exhaust system is notably unremarkable. Tom started out with set of long, equal length, stainless steel headers feeding a four-into-one tailpipe that collected under the engine and exited between the landing gear (under the pilot’s seat). This more elaborate exhaust system was never actually installed because the firewall size advantage gained with the dry sump would be negated if these pipes were used. Dyno testing at Lycon revealed that the four-into-one netted an 8 hp gain at wide open throttle, but Tom wasn’t convinced that the extra drag would be worth it...

http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-07_phantom.asp

How about that... 8 HP, just like the CAFE study indicates. I guess they (and every other gearhead, racer, engine builder, etc in the world) were right - Headers flat out work.

BTW, the "code" to break on the CAFE article is the 38-42 inch primaries, not the megaphone exhaust tip.

I just looked at the video of Tom's plane as it was being built and then readied for its first flight in August of 03 and at that time the airplane was unpainted and was in really rough external condition. It had the long exhaust pipes sticking down from each cylinder with a slight backward curve at the end. I guess what you described must have happened a long time before that.

I've been privy to a lot of LyCon's data sheets for different engines and I've seen claims for lots of incredible power, but they usually base their power estimates on FF. Would you believe an IO-360 putting out 280 HP at 2700 rpm? No? Neither do I! One sheet I saw last summer on an O-200 gave lots more power based on FF, but the sheet also contained both rpm and torque, and if you have those two you know exactly what the true power is, and it was quite a bit less than their FF number.

As far as the megaphone end is concerned I must disagree. If you look at the pressure curves that go with it you'll see that it gave a low pressure in the cylinder during valve overlap to help draw in fresh charge. That was one of their biggest recommendations, so why isn't anyone doing it.

So since the resonant length for 2700 rpm is about 76", how do you account for the four-into-one exhaust boosting power 8HP whenits much less length than that? Do you have a well-reasoned explanation, or are you just passing on what you read or heard? I would accept these numbers if I saw some definitive before-after test data. One of the things that was mentioned is that its necessary to change the cam timing, overlap, and duration for a resonant sytem to work.

As far as gearheads and racers are concerned, they can have the longer pipes that are necessary for resonant operation on their cars. Also they can ruun at much higher rpm where shorter length is necessary. You can hardly make a valid comparison of cars and planes for that, among other reasons. But keep in mind that they must also get past the region where an engine will almost die when the rpm is at the anti-resonance for the pipe.

But keep in mind that my original response had to do with optional means of mounting exhaust pipes that would be much simpler, lighter, and less expensive than the multi-pipe sytems, and they could also be integrated in with a better method of dumping the cooling air overboard to reduce cooling drag. Sometimes people are more interested in getting into quibbling with dubious arguments than actually looking into how something like this might be implemented.

Think for a moment about the things I've done on my plane. I built a carbon fiber pan with the carb on the back side, rather than below, feeding forward through fiberglass ducts. I have separate inlet carbon and glass plenums that feed the cylinders on each side between the push-rod tubes. My cylinders are wrapped with carbon fiber from the push-rod tubes to the bottom of the cylinders. There in a box that is fed engine exhaust through a special Coanda nozzle I designed and built, the cooling air and exhaust are mixed together and pass through a rectangular duct and the combination exits below the firewall through a variable aperture exit. The Coanda nozzle creates a low pressure that helps draw air through the cylinder, and then after the two mix, the higher energy exhaust helps get the cooling air up to freestream velocity at the exit. I designed and built my own air-oil separator, and I use the heated air from my oil-cooler for cabin heat with no carbon monoxide worries. I also designed and built my voltage regulator with over-voltage protection, but it doesn't rely on popping a circuit breaker to work. It just shuts off the regulation until the fault is removed. I also designed my VOR, Glideslope, Comm, and transponder antennae and they are all contained within the structure. Also I have two Plasma I ignitions, which I also designed for Klaus. Those are my credentials.
Crickey, mites! I left out one of the best things on my plane, that three-blade, high-efficiency, noise-free fan on the front!
 
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...So since the resonant length for 2700 rpm is about 76", how do you account for the four-into-one exhaust boosting power 8HP whenits much less length than that? Do you have a well-reasoned explanation, or are you just passing on what you read or heard?...

Which order of resonance do you think happens at the 76 inch length? It's not the first order... More like the 5th. Which means that Brian Seeley's research of 38 to 42 inches matches pretty closely with your "car" numbers for 76" if you increase one order to the 6th (76/2 = 38). First order resonance is the strongest, but is a packaging nightmare due to the length required.

Look, tuned exhaust (and induction) flat out works. This has been common knowledge for almost as long as the internal combustion engine has been in existence. To deny its relevance is like steadfastly believing the earth is flat. Winning race teams don't continue to use this method because they are trying to promote some kind of conspiracy - they do so because it is a requirement to make power. The physics don't change based upon what manufacturer is stamped on the valve cover.
 
More to it than I thought!

Looks like I sparked a pretty good conversation! I had no idea there were so many factors to be considered. I knew about tube lengths and that they should be equal, but I had no idea about resonance frequencies or "horn exhaust tips." Seeing that there are so many variables I think we'll go with the Vetterman to keep it simple. Is there a significant difference in sound between the "straight pipe" and "muffled", inside and outside of the cockpit? Thanks for all the replies
 
...Is there a significant difference in sound between the "straight pipe" and "muffled", inside and outside of the cockpit? Thanks for all the replies

There is a noticeable difference in the "muffled" sound. I describe the sound levels in My RV (from inside) prior to mufflers 10 out of 10 volume. With Mufflers (7 out of 10). It's still loud, sounds great, but not as deafening. I am sure your neighbors will appreciate it also.
 
Looks like I sparked a pretty good conversation! I had no idea there were so many factors to be considered. I knew about tube lengths and that they should be equal, but I had no idea about resonance frequencies or "horn exhaust tips."

You really only have to worry about resonance if you are trying to build power. Hysterical warnings about ?anti reversion? aside, one look under the cowl of any number of spam cans will show you that you can pretty much throw anything on the engine (within reason) and it will work. In many cases, the exhaust is an afterthought by the airframer. That said, the math for figuring out a "good" exhaust is not that hard - the info is widely available, and has been for many, many years.

...Is there a significant difference in sound between the "straight pipe" and "muffled", inside and outside of the cockpit?...

Originally, I had a "bullet" type race muffler attached to the collector with a 90 degree slash cut turndown tip. I also alternated with a simple straight collector extension as I was experimenting with the "optimal" collector length. As expected, the muffler was quieter. However, once I found the straight collector length the engine liked and added a turndown, the straight pipe produced about the same cabin noise as the muffler. Since the collector extension was significantly lighter than the muffler, the former went to the scrap pile.

Moral of the story: Turndowns are important to reducing noise in the cabin.
 
Again, I would be happy to agree that these multi-into one exhausts actually will produce more power than simple short stack; it has absolutely no effect on my system. Show me the definitive data from before-after tests conducted on an aircraft engine by a well known manufacturer and you will make a believer out of me. With so many exhaust system makers out there, I am sure at least one has conducted "exhaustive" tests.
 
... Show me the definitive data from before-after tests conducted on an aircraft engine by a well known manufacturer and you will make a believer out of me...

I doubt it. There is already a mountain of data that shows the advantage of tuned induction and exhaust - if this isn't good enough for you, nothing ever will be.

Perhaps since you are the only one NOT "drinking the Kool-aid", perhaps it's up to you to show us the light. I'm sure all those race teams who so methodically research and then fabricate these complicated exhaust systems would be more than happy to learn that the same results can be gained with a simple 90 degree stub stack on the exhaust port.
 
I doubt it. There is already a mountain of data that shows the advantage of tuned induction and exhaust - if this isn't good enough for you, nothing ever will be.

Perhaps since you are the only one NOT "drinking the Kool-aid", perhaps it's up to you to show us the light. I'm sure all those race teams who so methodically research and then fabricate these complicated exhaust systems would be more than happy to learn that the same results can be gained with a simple 90 degree stub stack on the exhaust port.

C'mon, now; that isn't a very civil response. Really, if you have the data in a simple form, not like all of the plots and graphs that CAFE put out which is open to individual interpretation, and since you say there are "mountains" of it available, that must mean that you have some of it at your fingertips. Something along the line of manufacturer x on such-and-such a date performed a dyno test of an O-320 fitted with 8" straight stacks and after compensating for temperature, humidity, and baro pressure, the result gave yyy HP. The test was repeated three more times after allowing the engine to cool down each time to establish consistency. Then on the following day, the same series of tests were run on x's four-into-one exhaust system, with the following results that show a 4.3% power increase. That's really a simple request, and since you know of "mountains" of data, you should have absolutely no trouble whatsoever in coming up with the appropriate data. But only aircraft engine tests, please. It would be nice, also, to have an explanation on exactly how the exhaust is able to accomplish this, since the 3' or 4' length of most of these systems don't appear to be of the proper resonant length.
 
C'mon, now; that isn't a very civil response. Really, if you have the data in a simple form, not like all of the plots and graphs that CAFE put out which is open to individual interpretation, and since you say there are "mountains" of it available, that must mean that you have some of it at your fingertips. Something along the line of manufacturer x on such-and-such a date performed a dyno test of an O-320 fitted with 8" straight stacks and after compensating for temperature, humidity, and baro pressure, the result gave yyy HP. The test was repeated three more times after allowing the engine to cool down each time to establish consistency. Then on the following day, the same series of tests were run on x's four-into-one exhaust system, with the following results that show a 4.3% power increase. That's really a simple request, and since you know of "mountains" of data, you should have absolutely no trouble whatsoever in coming up with the appropriate data. But only aircraft engine tests, please. It would be nice, also, to have an explanation on exactly how the exhaust is able to accomplish this, since the 3' or 4' length of most of these systems don't appear to be of the proper resonant length.

Sounds like you know more about this than any of us. You should start an exhaust manufacturing company and then show us all how wrong we are.
 
C'mon, now; that isn't a very civil response. Really, if you have the data in a simple form, not like all of the plots and graphs that CAFE put out which is open to individual interpretation, and since you say there are "mountains" of it available, that must mean that you have some of it at your fingertips. Something along the line of manufacturer x on such-and-such a date performed a dyno test of an O-320 fitted with 8" straight stacks and after compensating for temperature, humidity, and baro pressure, the result gave yyy HP. The test was repeated three more times after allowing the engine to cool down each time to establish consistency. Then on the following day, the same series of tests were run on x's four-into-one exhaust system, with the following results that show a 4.3% power increase. That's really a simple request, and since you know of "mountains" of data, you should have absolutely no trouble whatsoever in coming up with the appropriate data. But only aircraft engine tests, please. It would be nice, also, to have an explanation on exactly how the exhaust is able to accomplish this, since the 3' or 4' length of most of these systems don't appear to be of the proper resonant length.
I have an ECI IO-340 running Vetterman straight 4 pipes installed now. If anyone who has a dyno that can house my flying airplane I would be glad to have my setup run on a dyno, then add any of X's muffler setup or 4 into 1 setup to compare the differences in power and noise levels. Just contact me anytime and lets see what we find out.
 
You?re not a member of the Flat Earth Society, are you?

... That's really a simple request, and since you know of "mountains" of data, you should have absolutely no trouble whatsoever in coming up with the appropriate data. But only aircraft engine tests, please..


If you?re limiting your acceptable data to a Hot Rod magazine style ?dyno shootout? type of test done on an aircraft engine test mule, while at the same time throwing out the definitive work on the subject ? the CAFE tests, I?d say you are going to be disappointed. Further, if you also ignore the ?mountains? of data that does exist on the subject merely on the illogical basis that the valve covers say Chevrolet or Suzuki instead of Lycoming or Continental, you have really painted yourself into an unrealistic corner.

Skepticism is good, but we?re not talking about the fabled ?100 MPG carburetor? or perpetual motion? Resonant behavior is textbook engineering analysis, just as valid as beam theory in stress calculations and Reynolds numbers in aero. This science has been successfully applied since the almost the beginning of the internal combustion engine, and frankly, if you?re not willing to open a textbook and figure out even the basics, I?m certainly not going to spoon feed it to you.

At any rate, you?re the odd man out here. If you think stub stacks are the way to go ? it?s incumbent on you to show us the light. I?m looking forward to your dyno results.


... It would be nice, also, to have an explanation on exactly how the exhaust is able to accomplish this, since the 3' or 4' length of most of these systems don't appear to be of the proper resonant length.

...answered in post #29
 
OK, Here's my last on the subject since you are obviously not willing to show all of these great horsepower-boosting exhaust systems.

1. C.F Taylor, The Internal-Combustion Engine in Theory and Practice, Vol. 1: Thermodynamics, Fuel Flow, Performance. Second Edition, Revised, Page 200. Effect of Exhaust Pipe Length. At a given speed, the length of the exhaust pipe can have an appreciable effect on px in eq 6-13 because of its influence on intensity of exhaust pipe pressure waves and their timing in relation to top center. However, in practice it is found that the effect of changing exhaust-pipe length on volumetric efficiency is usually small because the effect of changes in px on volumetric efficiency is slight (see eq 6-13)

2. C.F.Taylor, Volume 2: Combustion, Fuels, Materials, Design. Revised Edition, Page 400. Reference 10.801 states that the use of INDIVIDUAL exhaust pipes developed for racing purposes can increase volumetric efficiency by 5 to 7%.

Note, not multi-into one, but individual pipes,as you would see on dragsters.

I'm not a believer, I don't gush all over and immediately accept hearsay evidence that tells of marvelous things happening all over the world like ghosts and ETs and the things you hear at night on George Noory's Coast-to-Coast AM. I only accept consistent data that demonstrates how a process works and can give a concise explanation of its operating mechanism. No, I'm not a flat-earther either, and people who stoop to that type of support for their arguments show that they really have no good arguments in their favor or to hang their beliefs on, for if they were provable, as you say they are, they would no longer be beliefs. I don't argue beliefs, only provable items. The CAFE tests in their own conclusion section don't give any hard and fast numbers. Many of my knowleadgeable friends think the the CAFE people were pretend scientists who can show pretty picture and graphs but never draw any meaningful conclusions from their mounds of data. If you don't accept the CF Taylor bible on engines, well that's it!
 
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Before you debate physics with Paul, perhaps you should first review the fundamental mechanics.

This is where the "tuned" phrase comes into play. All that "back and forth" if timed right, creates a strong low pressure wave right at the moment of the exhaust valve opening. This scavenges the combustion chamber allowing more fresh air charge.

No. The exhaust valve lifts off its seat while the piston is moving downward on the power stroke, well before BDC. Cylinder pressure is quite high, far, far higher than any pressure wave you can generate with a pipe. From exhaust valve opening, through BDC, and well on up toward TDC the cylinder is in blowdown.....using residual combustion pressure to accelerate the gas out the port.

Pipe scavenging takes place during the overlap period. The intake opens well before TDC while the exhaust doesn't close until after TDC, so for a significant period of crankshaft rotation near TDC both valves are open at the same time. The intake charge is sitting there in the intake runner, dead stopped. Like any mass it has inertia and thus requires force to get it moving. The piston has not yet started downward and won't do so for quite a while, and atmospheric pressure alone won't get intake charge moving into the cylinder until it does. So, we turn to wave action in both the exhaust and the intake passages for some help. A strong negative pressure wave at the exhaust port combined with positive wave in the intake port accelerates intake charge into the small space above the piston crown, across the chamber, and out the exhaust port. The chamber volume is flushed of exhaust gas and filled with fresh intake before the piston moves downward any significant distance for the intake stroke.
 
Before you debate physics with Paul, perhaps you should first review the fundamental mechanics...

Yes, the event description was off, but it was never intended to be a technical dissertation. It was my mistake for forgetting that people on internet forums focus on the minute and then miss the salient message.

So are you now regretting that 4 into 1 on your airplane Dan?

?Or are you still a Kool-aid drinker with the rest of us.;)
 
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