AircooledDreams
Member
Waiting 3 years for an engine is disappointing for sure.
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Engine Delivery Accuracy from Final Payment
- Thread starter Mark Dickens
- Start date
Just got a call from Vadim at continental. My engine has been done for about 2 weeks but as suggested earlier they are waiting on Pmags from hartzell. He said they are having a hard time getting them direct so he has just ordered them retail from Spruce.
Kind of concerned hartzell is not even getting them to OEM’s…
Kind of concerned hartzell is not even getting them to OEM’s…
Funny that I just got an email from Vans pushing their Power Up emag sale and they say they are in stock...wth 
kbalch
Well Known Member
So, here's a question: I'm just getting started on my third RV build. The first time around, I bought the engine from Aerosport Power. The second time around, I got it from Van's. This time out, I can't decide what to do. Van's prices (while an outrageous increase over the last time) are still way better than I've been able to find in the secondary market. Lead times, however, are nuts. I can either get it in three or four months, but pay over $100K (for an IO-360-A1B6) - or pay "only" $63K, but wait 18 months. Holy cow!
I'm a fast builder and expect to have my standard -8 flying in under two years. That, of course, requires that every item necessary be on hand the moment I'm ready for it. My first inclination is to order the standard Lycoming from Van's and hope for the best, but hope isn't a plan. I'd get the Thunderbolt just for the time saved (even though I think it's largely a marketing gimmick), but it doesn't sound as though the 14 months they're quoting on Van's site is honest.
What should I do?
I'm a fast builder and expect to have my standard -8 flying in under two years. That, of course, requires that every item necessary be on hand the moment I'm ready for it. My first inclination is to order the standard Lycoming from Van's and hope for the best, but hope isn't a plan. I'd get the Thunderbolt just for the time saved (even though I think it's largely a marketing gimmick), but it doesn't sound as though the 14 months they're quoting on Van's site is honest.
What should I do?
First, I'd be extremely skeptical of the 14 or 18 month claim. That has turned out to be total BS. Maybe the IO-360 is shorter than the IO-390, but given Vans performance on their promises, I wouldn't give them a cent for an engine. I'm not sure what the deal is between Lycoming and Vans as to priority, but I'm very skeptical that it's first come first served...and I wouldn't even consider a Thunderbolt. @Imagine47 has been waiting almost 4 years for his. It's almost as if they just don't like himSo, here's a question: I'm just getting started on my third RV build. The first time around, I bought the engine from Aerosport Power. The second time around, I got it from Van's. This time out, I can't decide what to do. Van's prices (while an outrageous increase over the last time) are still way better than I've been able to find in the secondary market. Lead times, however, are nuts. I can either get it in three or four months, but pay over $100K (for an IO-360-A1B6) - or pay "only" $63K, but wait 18 months. Holy cow!
I'm a fast builder and expect to have my standard -8 flying in under two years. That, of course, requires that every item necessary be on hand the moment I'm ready for it. My first inclination is to order the standard Lycoming from Van's and hope for the best, but hope isn't a plan. I'd get the Thunderbolt just for the time saved (even though I think it's largely a marketing gimmick), but it doesn't sound as though the 14 months they're quoting on Van's site is honest.
What should I do?
..14 months? Hah!Me? I'd be at OSH hitting all the other vendors. An IO-360-A1B6 is not an uncommon engine in the overhaul market...ordering from Lycoming would be my last option
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AircooledDreams
Member
Have you given Continental's TITAN a shot? You would be at about $57k for a 195 HP engine. The deposit is $5000. Here is a link to the builder tool: https://continental.aero/titan-engine-builder/So, here's a question: I'm just getting started on my third RV build. The first time around, I bought the engine from Aerosport Power. The second time around, I got it from Van's. This time out, I can't decide what to do. Van's prices (while an outrageous increase over the last time) are still way better than I've been able to find in the secondary market. Lead times, however, are nuts. I can either get it in three or four months, but pay over $100K (for an IO-360-A1B6) - or pay "only" $63K, but wait 18 months. Holy cow!
I'm a fast builder and expect to have my standard -8 flying in under two years. That, of course, requires that every item necessary be on hand the moment I'm ready for it. My first inclination is to order the standard Lycoming from Van's and hope for the best, but hope isn't a plan. I'd get the Thunderbolt just for the time saved (even though I think it's largely a marketing gimmick), but it doesn't sound as though the 14 months they're quoting on Van's site is honest.
What should I do?
I forgot to mention that he did also say lead times should be going down at continental as they have gotten pretty well caught up on cases, cranks and sumps.
I kinda feel bad for vans being stuck in the middle with lycoming. Yeah they decided to do it, but I’m sure they don’t appreciate being jerked around by lycoming either. They are getting the production notices from lycoming amd communicating that to the customer it’s not really their fault lycoming isn’t following through.
Just reading all of the issues on here is what swayed me to a Titan. They have been in communication and following through on their stated timeline.
I kinda feel bad for vans being stuck in the middle with lycoming. Yeah they decided to do it, but I’m sure they don’t appreciate being jerked around by lycoming either. They are getting the production notices from lycoming amd communicating that to the customer it’s not really their fault lycoming isn’t following through.
Just reading all of the issues on here is what swayed me to a Titan. They have been in communication and following through on their stated timeline.
kbalch
Well Known Member
Thanks, guys. I hadn't even thought about Titan, but it sure seems like a viable option. Are the engines truly clones of the Lyc? Same horizontal induction, same accessory case, same fuel injection, same baffle fitment, etc.? Will everything in the Van's firewall forward kit just bolt up to it?
I'm still not sure if I can get to OSH this year, but I'm going to try.
I'm still not sure if I can get to OSH this year, but I'm going to try.
I would ask Titan, but I had a Titan IOX-370 on my -8 and had a good experience. It's been a few years, so I would ask titan to confirm the other information, but in my case, everything just hooked up normally
kbalch
Well Known Member
Great info; much appreciated. If that's the case, it sounds very tempting. I'll definitely give them a call and see what they say.
Now that you say that, I remember that...thanks for jogging my memory!
Yes - my understanding is that Titan’s 195 hp is a hopped up parallel valve 360. They call it a 370. But it should be 15-20 lbs lighter than the angle valve getting close to the same hp.
AircooledDreams
Member
This is correct. All their engines are parallel valve.
It is a stroked-out 360, making 195 hp with a compression ratio of 9.6:1. The vertical induction sump is made out of magnesium. The cylinder barrel fins are tapered, and it has a hollow main crankshaft.
Utah-Jay
Well Known Member
So myself and two others are building a -15, Last week I put down a deposit on a -390 and expect delivery in January/February.
Same engine builder who built my O-360 for my Bearhawk. That rebuilt/overhauled engine was great and I expect the IO-390 to be as well.
I am surprised more don’t go that route.
$43,000 and get it in 7 months.
I prefer to have it early than have to wait even one single day
Same engine builder who built my O-360 for my Bearhawk. That rebuilt/overhauled engine was great and I expect the IO-390 to be as well.
I am surprised more don’t go that route.
$43,000 and get it in 7 months.
I prefer to have it early than have to wait even one single day
kbalch
Well Known Member
Sounds good. Who's the builder?
Aaaaand now Mike's lead time is about to blow out to 12-18 months.
Utah-Jay
Well Known Member
But mine arrives in Jan/FebAaaaand now Mike's lead time is about to blow out to 12-18 months.
Another Data Point
Aero Sport Power
Ordered IO-540 Thunderbolt-Like Lycoming Aug. 21, 2023
Final payment request June 9, 2026
Final payment made June 15, 2026
-June 15th I showed up to participate in the build of my engine. What a great experience and I highly recommend for anyone who enjoys learning. I was given a tour of the facility and introduced to all of the members of the team. Then the build started. The cart with all of my parts prepped and painted and ready to go! After lunch the second day the engine was ready for the test bench. A series of test at different rpm's and documents recording all the numbers. The third day a confirmation test run was performed to verify idle rpm adjustment down and oil press. adjustment of 4 psi. After that the oil was removed, filter cut open and inspected and sump screens checked. All good! Engine continued on prep for shipping. Many thanks to Terry who spent much time explaining everything to me. Rob Wharf and the whole team there was great. Engine scheduled to ship Jul. 2, 2026
Aero Sport Power
Ordered IO-540 Thunderbolt-Like Lycoming Aug. 21, 2023
Final payment request June 9, 2026
Final payment made June 15, 2026
-June 15th I showed up to participate in the build of my engine. What a great experience and I highly recommend for anyone who enjoys learning. I was given a tour of the facility and introduced to all of the members of the team. Then the build started. The cart with all of my parts prepped and painted and ready to go! After lunch the second day the engine was ready for the test bench. A series of test at different rpm's and documents recording all the numbers. The third day a confirmation test run was performed to verify idle rpm adjustment down and oil press. adjustment of 4 psi. After that the oil was removed, filter cut open and inspected and sump screens checked. All good! Engine continued on prep for shipping. Many thanks to Terry who spent much time explaining everything to me. Rob Wharf and the whole team there was great. Engine scheduled to ship Jul. 2, 2026
kbalch
Well Known Member
What did they charge for the IO-540? Outright, I assume, with no core credit?
kbalch
Well Known Member
Sounds fine! I’ve got an email in to them now. They gave me a generic quote for a bit more than that for the IO-360 a month or so ago, but perhaps a conversation about the details will whittle it down a bit. The engine they built for my first RV (way back in the Bart Lalonde days) ran great and I’d like to duplicate the performance.
Good luck.
I sent several email to them and never got a reply.
In fact I sent loads of emails to several well known engine suppliers/builders and the only one that gave me the time of day was Vadim Cateli at Titan. Which is why I’ve ordered an engine from him.
kbalch
Well Known Member
OK, I talked with Aerosport Power today and will be going with them again. They're going to do a Thunderbolt equivalent engine for very slightly more than the Van's price, but with absolutely none of the schedule uncertainty, let alone the outright lies about lead times. Sure, I wish it were cheaper, but they're right in the current ballpark and it's definitely a pay-to-play hobby. 
Wise man!OK, I talked with Aerosport Power today and will be going with them again. They're going to do a Thunderbolt equivalent engine for very slightly more than the Van's price, but with absolutely none of the schedule uncertainty, let alone the outright lies about lead times. Sure, I wish it were cheaper, but they're right in the current ballpark and it's definitely a pay-to-play hobby.
As of two days ago, the July 9 ship date was still "good"...now I get the following response from Vans:
"It looks like lycoming is behind. I do not have a ETA for you at this time. I will email them and see if I can get a date for you. Let me know if there is anything else that I can assist you with."
I've never in my almost 70 years seen such incompetence from a company. And Vans doesn't seem to be curious or care whether they fulfill orders for which their customers have paid in full. I'm thinking hard about demanding my money back. This is beyond amazing. I can't wait to get into Lycoming's tent at Oshkosh
"It looks like lycoming is behind. I do not have a ETA for you at this time. I will email them and see if I can get a date for you. Let me know if there is anything else that I can assist you with."
I've never in my almost 70 years seen such incompetence from a company. And Vans doesn't seem to be curious or care whether they fulfill orders for which their customers have paid in full. I'm thinking hard about demanding my money back. This is beyond amazing. I can't wait to get into Lycoming's tent at Oshkosh
kbalch
Well Known Member
I’d have been absolutely livid quite some time ago. I asked Aerosport Power if they were confident about delivery no later than this time next year and they said that they were highly confident that I’d have it before the holidays this year. The warranty will run from first start, too, not delivery. Sounds good to me!
My hypothesis is that each day Lycoming looks at their order queue and reprioritizes the orders according to their importance to Lycoming, regardless of when the order was received. I'd guess that if Cirrus calls up with an high priority order for a IO-390, it goes to the front of the line. Cirrus represents a long term order stream and we lowly EAB types rank lower than that. How else could their production process be this out of control and chaotic? I mean, one day you say you're going to ship on July 9th and the next, no-one knows when it will ship. Who runs a company (especially one this old and established) this way? It must be he!! working there if it's this much of a goat rodeo...
kbalch
Well Known Member
I'm sure they're doing exactly that along with leveraging artificial scarcity to "justify" their outrageous price increases of recent years. If I think about this too much, it's going to drive me nuts. I've just agreed to pay as much for the new engine as I had in my first -8 in total. It's even about 55% of the -14A's total expenditure. Sure, it's nice that values for finished airplanes are up, too, but that doesn't help until/unless one sells out. Since my intention is to keep this one until my encroaching decrepitude catches up with me (hopefully not soon), those big resale numbers are no comfort at all. Alas.
Of course, there's always the possibility that Lycoming has not received my final payment from Vans. You see there's no way to know, it's a opaque box as to where your money is!
kbalch
Well Known Member
Yep, it's completely outrageous and no way to run a business. More to the point, it's not the way that Van's was run for most of its existence. The sad part is that, as guys who remember the old ways age out, the new guys will believe that the current state of affairs is just how it is and the company will never have any motivation to return to the way things were. Ludicrous pricing aside, I'm speaking mostly about customer service and the complete lack of transparency and proactivity nowadays. It's definitely not the company I remember and my message along those lines to the current office girl has yet to bear fruit. I'm not holding my breath. The sooner I receive all of my kits (plus the extra bits & pieces) and can be done dealing directly with the company, the better.
I miss Tom Green, Ken Krueger, and even Scott Risan (who started as a tech support guy while I was building my first RV). Unfortunately, the company they represented so well belongs to the ages now...
Stevegbxpp
I'm New Here
I am getting as frustrated as Mark on this. My engine ordered with deposit June 24. Originally scheduled for delivery 6th April 26 at which time I paid the balance. Then told it was due 4th June. That became 2nd July. Today I am told it is now going to be August with no fixed date. FFS this is really annoying now.
I decided that when I retired in 2023 this long wished for project was going to be my retirement gift to my self. For years I was really looking forward to joining the wonderful world of Vans. Whilst I can say that generally I have enjoyed the build, it has now become something of a frustration and a worry. With all the lcp/bankruptcy/price rises/delays and worries about loosing payments and deposits I was hoping that getting the engine was the last major hurdle in this ridiculous story.
I am now some 4 months behind my place in the paint shop and have done all I can in the meantime to make sure I have completed all I can without the engine. It’s also frustrating to loose the momentum.
I know I am far from the only one in this situation and there are plenty worse off than me. I am still pissed off though.
Of course I am not really a grumpy old git
I decided that when I retired in 2023 this long wished for project was going to be my retirement gift to my self. For years I was really looking forward to joining the wonderful world of Vans. Whilst I can say that generally I have enjoyed the build, it has now become something of a frustration and a worry. With all the lcp/bankruptcy/price rises/delays and worries about loosing payments and deposits I was hoping that getting the engine was the last major hurdle in this ridiculous story.
I am now some 4 months behind my place in the paint shop and have done all I can in the meantime to make sure I have completed all I can without the engine. It’s also frustrating to loose the momentum.
I know I am far from the only one in this situation and there are plenty worse off than me. I am still pissed off though.
Of course I am not really a grumpy old git
Two years? That's nothing
Also, high volume flight schools that need new or factory overhauled engines regularly. Apparently, they suck up a lot of them and may get preferential treatment to keep their airplanes flying.
Sounds like Van's doesn't carry much clout with Lycoming anymore. I think they used to.
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Well the person I was talking to at Vans said they had sent Lycoming an email about this and would get back to me...
Here’s another data point.
Thunderbolt EXP 119
Ordered Sun’n’Fun pricing in April 2023
Various shipping dates but last was set 5/4/26 for shipment 7/31/26. This was still true on the portal today.
Payment requested (14 day requirement) and sent 6/4/26.
Email response today from Vans (phone method didn’t work yesterday) says 8/7/26 ship date, but that means it will actually ship 5-7 days after that.
Thunderbolt EXP 119
Ordered Sun’n’Fun pricing in April 2023
Various shipping dates but last was set 5/4/26 for shipment 7/31/26. This was still true on the portal today.
Payment requested (14 day requirement) and sent 6/4/26.
Email response today from Vans (phone method didn’t work yesterday) says 8/7/26 ship date, but that means it will actually ship 5-7 days after that.
