Van's Air Force
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empennage kit?
- Thread starter Jordan17
- Start date
captainron
Well Known Member
How easy?
That's pretty subjective. Who are you and what is your background? It may be a piece of cake for an orthodontist, or impossible for a diesel mechanic. A math professor, maybe, or maybe not. Do you have any mechanical aptitude? Can you follow blueprints and directions? Are you good with hand and power tools? There are people on this forum from probably every trade and profession that have done it, are doing it, struggling with it, or have given up. Buy or borrow the preview plans and try to find builders in your area that will let you come take a look at what's involved.
That's pretty subjective. Who are you and what is your background? It may be a piece of cake for an orthodontist, or impossible for a diesel mechanic. A math professor, maybe, or maybe not. Do you have any mechanical aptitude? Can you follow blueprints and directions? Are you good with hand and power tools? There are people on this forum from probably every trade and profession that have done it, are doing it, struggling with it, or have given up. Buy or borrow the preview plans and try to find builders in your area that will let you come take a look at what's involved.
dan
Well Known Member
Jordan,
With an RV builder across the street, you should have no trouble. The more experienced folks you can surround yourself with the better.
I recommend to new builders who have the "can I really do this?" question that they take a class such as the www.sportair.com RV Assembly workshop (or the like), but I remember when I was 17-18...I didn't have that kind of spare cash lying around! The workshop costs more than the car I owned back then.
Your local EAA chapter hopefully has some expertise & helping hands. Try to find other RV builders in the area (your RV-9 neighbor probably has connections) and get friendly with 'em. Most guys are happy to help show you the ropes...it's a way for them to show off their own skills.
The empennage kit itself is the steepest part of the learning curve -- introducing you to pretty much all of the types of things you'll see on the entire airframe, but it's definitely not difficult. Just take your time, really study the plans & instructions, and don't be bashful about getting help when you're unsure.
Best of luck to you. Good to see young builders.
With an RV builder across the street, you should have no trouble. The more experienced folks you can surround yourself with the better.
I recommend to new builders who have the "can I really do this?" question that they take a class such as the www.sportair.com RV Assembly workshop (or the like), but I remember when I was 17-18...I didn't have that kind of spare cash lying around! The workshop costs more than the car I owned back then.
Your local EAA chapter hopefully has some expertise & helping hands. Try to find other RV builders in the area (your RV-9 neighbor probably has connections) and get friendly with 'em. Most guys are happy to help show you the ropes...it's a way for them to show off their own skills.
The empennage kit itself is the steepest part of the learning curve -- introducing you to pretty much all of the types of things you'll see on the entire airframe, but it's definitely not difficult. Just take your time, really study the plans & instructions, and don't be bashful about getting help when you're unsure.
Best of luck to you. Good to see young builders.
Steve Sampson
Well Known Member
Mike_ExpressCT
Well Known Member
If money's a concern (me too), and you're not concerned about aerobatics and want a kit that's much easier to build than both the -3 and -4, wait for a few more months for the RV-12 to come out. A much more modern kit. I guess in the end it won't be a whole lot cheaper, but every bit helps...
Otherwise, best of luck to you!! I was 8 when I started doing fiberglass lay-ups with my father...it's never too early and you're never too young to start!
Otherwise, best of luck to you!! I was 8 when I started doing fiberglass lay-ups with my father...it's never too early and you're never too young to start!
Mike_ExpressCT
Well Known Member
Jordan17 said:the 12 does look promising. i will have to look into it a little more. if only the -3 and -4 had pre drilled holes. this may take quite a bit of thought.
I do think there are people that would be interested in building the -4 if it had the match drilled holes, but not nearly enough people to justify the engineering expense. Van has said many times that it will probably never happen, just simply because the demand isn't there. But it's nice to know that we have the -7/8/9/10/and soon to be 12 that are all matched hole, and with the -12 being smallest with pulled rivets, probably the quickest to build.
But yeah, I'd be looking at a -4 pretty seriously too, if it came match-hole drilled. Perhaps a hobby for someday...
sprucemoose
Well Known Member
Don't psych yourself out. Literally thousands of 3s, 4s and 6s were built in the stone ages before matched-hole construction. It is entirely doable. Heck it'll even win you bragging rights with your neighbor!Jordan17 said:if only the -3 and -4 had pre drilled holes. this may take quite a bit of thought.
hahaha, you do have a point. an 18 year old showing up a 53 year old. i like the sound of that. over a long nights thought, i think i will build the -3. I have not seen a ton of people flying them. correct me if i am wrong but i think there have been 238 built. i think i will try to keep the numbers growing. and for what i am using it for, it should serve me well. can the -3 be flown with the canopy locked in the open position?
over a long nights thought, i think i will build the -3. I have not seen a ton of people flying them. correct me if i am wrong but i think there have been 238 built. i think i will try to keep the numbers growing. and for what i am using it for, it should serve me well. can the -3 be flown with the canopy locked in the open position?notes from a -3 driver
My dad and I built our -3 20 years ago, and there was nosuch thing as pre-drilled holes. I am now building a -4, and there still no pre-drilled holes, and I wouldn't have it any other way. It is not hard to mark and drill all of the required holes, and it gives you a better feeling of a job well done. As for flying with the canopy open, I wouldn't. Van says that you can, but with the range of speed that a -3 has, you could risk losing your canopy. We had a S**** playboy many years ago, and we did fly that with the canopy open, but you had to hold it open with a stick because the vacuum created from the airflow would try to close it. I have also seen on the Vans Airforce web site of a -3 that was made into an open cockpit. Somehow 200mph in an open cockpit seems alittle breezy. As for flying, I totally love the way my -3 flys! I can loiter around at 80 mph, or zip along at 180mph. Both the -3 and the -4 handle the same, airspeeds are very close, so the real question comes down to what kind of $$$$ are you willing to spend?, and do you plan on taking friends along for the experience? Either way, both are excellent airplanes to both build and fly.
Mike Bauer
RV-3 flying N87LB
RV-4 building N742MC
My dad and I built our -3 20 years ago, and there was nosuch thing as pre-drilled holes. I am now building a -4, and there still no pre-drilled holes, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
It is not hard to mark and drill all of the required holes, and it gives you a better feeling of a job well done. As for flying with the canopy open, I wouldn't. Van says that you can, but with the range of speed that a -3 has, you could risk losing your canopy. We had a S**** playboy many years ago, and we did fly that with the canopy open, but you had to hold it open with a stick because the vacuum created from the airflow would try to close it. I have also seen on the Vans Airforce web site of a -3 that was made into an open cockpit. Somehow 200mph in an open cockpit seems alittle breezy. As for flying, I totally love the way my -3 flys! I can loiter around at 80 mph, or zip along at 180mph. Both the -3 and the -4 handle the same, airspeeds are very close, so the real question comes down to what kind of $$$$ are you willing to spend?, and do you plan on taking friends along for the experience? Either way, both are excellent airplanes to both build and fly.Mike Bauer
RV-3 flying N87LB
RV-4 building N742MC
rph142
Well Known Member
I was having the same debate about a year ago before I started my 3. In the end it was a gut feeling and the looks that pushed me towards the 3. I wouldnt let the non pre-drilled holes scare you away. It will take longer and you will make mistakes, but it really isnt as hard as people make it sound. If you can build an RC then you can build one of these planes. Its really a toss up between the cool factor of the 3 and the practicality of the 4. The 3 is not really any cheaper than the 4 becuase the engine, instruments, and paint cost the same. You MIGHT save 5K building the 3, but you will lose 3 times that in the resale. Good luck with either plane.
skyfrog
Well Known Member
Price Difference
Jordan,
Considering the price difference between the two and the amount of time it will take to construct, it may be better to pick the aircraft you want, and cut back on something like cable TV, cell phone features, etc. Over time, these add up.
It took me a very long time to decide between a 7 and a 9, but I used that time to prepare my shop, buy tools, and save money for the kit. In addition, I took the Sport Air Workshop as Dan mentioned. It's worth it's weight in...well...aluminum.
Just yesterday I was thanking the maker (Van's), for pre-drilled holes in my RV-9A Vertical Stabilizer for the speed of assembly. But the Sport Air Workshop also showed me that making a line of holes is also a relatively easy process, it just takes more time and care.
But the most important thing I learned was the joy of building. I am really enjoying this process *much* more than than I thought I would.
So, take your time, pick the right aircraft for you, get your finances in order, then say what I said while ordering my empennage..."Why the heck did I wait so long."
John Edwards
RV-9A Empennage
Jordan,
Considering the price difference between the two and the amount of time it will take to construct, it may be better to pick the aircraft you want, and cut back on something like cable TV, cell phone features, etc. Over time, these add up.
It took me a very long time to decide between a 7 and a 9, but I used that time to prepare my shop, buy tools, and save money for the kit. In addition, I took the Sport Air Workshop as Dan mentioned. It's worth it's weight in...well...aluminum.
Just yesterday I was thanking the maker (Van's), for pre-drilled holes in my RV-9A Vertical Stabilizer for the speed of assembly. But the Sport Air Workshop also showed me that making a line of holes is also a relatively easy process, it just takes more time and care.
But the most important thing I learned was the joy of building. I am really enjoying this process *much* more than than I thought I would.
So, take your time, pick the right aircraft for you, get your finances in order, then say what I said while ordering my empennage..."Why the heck did I wait so long."
John Edwards
RV-9A Empennage
Gregg Brightwell
Well Known Member
Jordan,
From a guy who went through a decision change about four times, on which RV to build, see if this helps. I now own preview plans, for a -3, -4, -7, and -8... I have this many, because each sounded like it was what I wanted to buld, at some point. However, when figuring, cost vs build time, and ultimately, operational costs over time, i had narrowed it down to the same -3 vs. -4 decision that you have. DO NOT let the lack of match drilled holes affect your decision on an RV. It's not tough, and I am SURE your neighbor can help you. The 4 is NOT much more expensive, and that second seat will sure be nice to take a buddy along, to show off your handiwork. That being said, I am on my way out to the shop now to work on my -4 emp. kit. I hope to finish it soon. I am 26, but have been saving for an RV kit since I was 17. Best of luck to you!
Gregg
RV-4 emp.
drill, deburr, rivet... drill deburr, rivet.....
From a guy who went through a decision change about four times, on which RV to build, see if this helps. I now own preview plans, for a -3, -4, -7, and -8...
I have this many, because each sounded like it was what I wanted to buld, at some point. However, when figuring, cost vs build time, and ultimately, operational costs over time, i had narrowed it down to the same -3 vs. -4 decision that you have. DO NOT let the lack of match drilled holes affect your decision on an RV. It's not tough, and I am SURE your neighbor can help you. The 4 is NOT much more expensive, and that second seat will sure be nice to take a buddy along, to show off your handiwork. That being said, I am on my way out to the shop now to work on my -4 emp. kit. I hope to finish it soon. I am 26, but have been saving for an RV kit since I was 17. Best of luck to you! Gregg
RV-4 emp.
drill, deburr, rivet... drill deburr, rivet.....
rv-4 empenage
i agree i owned also preview plans for 4,7,8,9,but i heard from my friend and instructor go with what you like not what do you think is easy to build all planes takes a years from start to finish, than i did my decision im building rv-3 its plane i can afford without takeing a loan and i enjoy build it, its not hard measure and drill couple holes sometimes its better ,you have more space to play with ,even im married my plane is not done yet and if i want take my wife for ride i go and rent a plane for 2 or 3 hours rv-3 is just my plane i loved since i saw first time
i agree i owned also preview plans for 4,7,8,9,but i heard from my friend and instructor go with what you like not what do you think is easy to build all planes takes a years from start to finish, than i did my decision im building rv-3 its plane i can afford without takeing a loan and i enjoy build it, its not hard measure and drill couple holes sometimes its better ,you have more space to play with ,even im married my plane is not done yet and if i want take my wife for ride i go and rent a plane for 2 or 3 hours rv-3 is just my plane i loved since i saw first time
