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Emergency Bus

BobCollins(AA)

Well Known Member


Hi,
I am in the process of designing my electrical system using VPX Pro and adding a emergency bus. I have included my drawing in this thread so you can comment on it and help me refine it.

Thanks

FlySafe
 
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Ho Bob,
I tried to look at your image as I am interested in VP-X and emergency but; but was not able to see the details at the image resolution provided.

Do you have a higher resolution image somewhere?

GH
 
Give me a couple of days to send you what I did. I'm in the process of finishing my RV-10 and selling my house, so it's a little crazy here at the moment..

In the manual, VP talks about two back up battery options. I came up with a hybrid that is a combination of both. I can also completely isolate the second battery as an ebus, or put it in parallel with the main bus.

Bob
 
VP-X?

Hi Bob & Bob:

Appreciate you both taking the time to send me your electrical system info.

I am still having a bit of trouble wrapping my brain around the idea that I am going to insert a computer into an electrical system and that the VP-X will not introduce another failure point.

How are you switching between the VP-X and the emergency (essential) bus?

I am planning on a primary and back-up alternator (a la Bonanza) but don't feel comfortable with a single electrical bus. There will be back-up batteries for the EFIS.

I like the idea of being able to see what is going on with electrics on the EFIS but am concerned about my comment above.

Thanks!

John
 
I looked for a current copy of my schematic and could find one. I suspect the accurate copy is the marked up version at the hangar. It will be at least a month before ill have a chance to transcribe all my notes electronically.

With that said, I really didn't do anything that unusual. Read the VP documentation. It's pretty good.

If you look at the two suggested methods for wiring dual batteries, I did a combination of both. The only real difference is the charging circuit. It should be apparent what I did when you look at the docs.

I have a pair of switches that will connect my GTN-650 to the ebus. My EFIS have multiple power inputs and is always connected to the ebus. I have another switch that can totally isolate my second battery and ebus from the primary or put both in parallel. I also have a dpdt switch that only allows the primary or secondary alternator to be online. In other words, it's impossible for me to have them both online at the same time.
 
Emerency Bus

John,

I will be using a second master solenoid for the emergency bus only which will be powered by the aircraft battery if for some reasons the VPX fails and this will come on automatically through a relay switch.

Bob
Hi Bob & Bob:

Appreciate you both taking the time to send me your electrical system info.

I am still having a bit of trouble wrapping my brain around the idea that I am going to insert a computer into an electrical system and that the VP-X will not introduce another failure point.

How are you switching between the VP-X and the emergency (essential) bus?

I am planning on a primary and back-up alternator (a la Bonanza) but don't feel comfortable with a single electrical bus. There will be back-up batteries for the EFIS.

I like the idea of being able to see what is going on with electrics on the EFIS but am concerned about my comment above.

Thanks!

John
 
Bob, I am curious to see your VPX schematic but it is impossible to read. Can you link to a higher resolution version? I am currently working on my VPX configuration. I spoke a couple of times with Stephen at Vertical Power who was very helpful. There is a link in the online planner to send it to review and it goes directly to him.
 
Sorry, Bob, while we haven't analyzed your design as you had hoped, we have verbally given you some basic feedback about it. To summarize, we feel as if your design is too complex and is beyond the scope of uses for which the VP-X was designed. The VP-X has always been engineered and marketed as dramatically improving the build and maintenance experience for experimental builders. It is not designed to provide all of the redundancy one might expect in an airliner.

We recognize that sometimes such complexity really is required (depending on the mission and required fault tolerance of the aircraft), and in fact we specifically support full dual-bus architectures in both our original VP-200 (developed seven years ago) as well as our most recent VP-400 (shipping in quantity just within the last few months). Those products are capable of managing two fully-redundant busses, with independent alternators and batteries, and with a cross-tie contactor for moving power from either bus to the other. Our experience developing the dual-bus support in those products has taught us that the additional complexity such systems introduce is not required by the vast majority of our customers. That is what led to the VP-X in the first place.

By reducing the part count and simplifying its options for integration, the VP-X has been proven capable and valuable to many customers. However, because we recognize there is still a desire to improve how the VP-X handles certain kinds of rare failures, we extensively document two different backup e-bus architectures in our installation manual. Those two architectures were specifically designed to provide power to a minimal set of essential devices, while still minimizing the additional complexity that any multi-bus architecture will introduce. Additional complexity leads not only to more mistakes and problems during installation, but also adds failure points which make maintaining the system in the long run more difficult. We are in the process of updating our manuals to address this issue: why simpler designs are usually more appropriate for most customers.

Your design is interesting. As I told you when we first saw it, we appreciate the creativity and thought that went into your design. We never want to discourage our customers from being experimenters or from finding new ways to use our products successfully. For perhaps obvious reasons, when someone like yourself develops a unique design, there is little we can say about it without implying an endorsement, which it would be unprofessional for us to offer without the kinds of significant testing that we have put into our recommended architectures. We stand behind our recommended architectures specifically because we have validated them extensively in our lab and in our airplanes.

We wish you and anyone else who wishes to color outside the lines our best wishes, but with creativity comes responsibility, and you will have to be responsible for validating your unique design on your own.

--
Stephen
 
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Thank you for your response.

I wish we could be of more help, Bob, but there are too many unknowns for us to say anything definitive. However, we can suggest that your first path to validating your design will be to build it on a test bench, not in an airplane. Since you already have a VP-X, you can try out various contactors, switches, diodes, and the other discrete parts of your design in isolation, building up parts of your design and validating each of the parts before eventually attempting to validate the whole thing. In general, we saw no major red flags in your block diagram, but until you specify and try out individual components, it's hard to tell how everything is going to work together.

Good luck! Please publish your findings here, as we and others are interested in your progress.

--
Stephen
 
I am working with a avionics shop and testing diodes under load over 24 hour period
It looks like 6 amp diodes will do the trick
 
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