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Electronic Circuit Breakers on your EFIS

MCA

MCA

Well Known Member
Advertiser
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Vertical Power, along with its EFIS partners, is formally announcing the VP-X at Sun n Fun next month but we wanted to give you an early preview.

The VP-X uses proven electronic circuit breakers to simplify wiring and provide advanced electrical system capabilities. Monitor the status of individual devices and the entire electrical system right from your EFIS. Avionics, lights, trim, and flaps can all be controlled using standard switches or the EFIS.

The VP-X works with Advanced Flight Systems, Grand Rapids Technologies HX, and MGL Voyager/Odyssey Gen 2 EFIS products.

Click to learn more. http://www.verticalpower.com/VPX.html
 
Way to Save Panel Space!

Looks good, no need to redo the panel to upgrade to Vertical Power!

Hans
 
Very cool Mark. Like it.

One question: Could you explain how use of this product negates the need for an e-bus, as is advertised? My understanding of the e-bus, as outlined in Nuckoll's Aeroelectric connection for Z-13/8 , is that in the event of a primary alternator failure, one would be alterted by a low voltage warning, prompting you to flip a switch to enable an alternate feed path for the e-bus, and one additional switch to power up a small standby alternator. This would therefore allow one to easily continue onward with all the 'essential' avionics still operating, and no significant in-flight decision making is necessary about what devices are left on and what is turned off, as those decisions have already been made by choosing which devices are hooked up to the ebuss. How does the VP-X accomplish the same?

thanks

erich
 
Erich, Bob's ebus architecture provides power if the battery contactor fails (thereby causing power loss on the main bus). The VP-X Installation Manual (here) shows how to wire backup circuits in case of the same failure.

In case the primary alternator fails, you can simply switch to your backup alternator and turn off extra loads that are not needed.

And rather than hardwire devices to an ebus, you can configure in the setup menus what each switch controls.

erich weaver said:
Very cool Mark. Like it.

One question: Could you explain how use of this product negates the need for an e-bus, as is advertised? My understanding of the e-bus, as outlined in Nuckoll's Aeroelectric connection for Z-13/8 , is that in the event of a primary alternator failure, one would be alterted by a low voltage warning, prompting you to flip a switch to enable an alternate feed path for the e-bus, and one additional switch to power up a small standby alternator. This would therefore allow one to easily continue onward with all the 'essential' avionics still operating, and no significant in-flight decision making is necessary about what devices are left on and what is turned off, as those decisions have already been made by choosing which devices are hooked up to the ebuss. How does the VP-X accomplish the same?

thanks

erich
Click to expand...
 
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Thanks for the reply Marc.

Your product appears to have a lot going for it, so I congratulate you on that. However, as a regular follower of Nuckoll's online forum however, I can say with some certainty that the primary purpose of the ebus is not to guard against battery contactor failure - that is simply a nice side benefit. As I indicated in my previous post, with an ebus, no decisions are necessary about what to keep on and what to turn off in what could be a stressful situation - its been thought out well in advance without any time pressures.

best regards
erich
 
Erich - The same can be accomplished with the VP-X for a lot less complexity. So you win either way you look at it.
 
Are there plans to add the functionality of the VP200 into this system using an EFIX as the display? I'm looking for such things as the checklists and especially the mode sensing displays such as after startup and such.
 
All, my direct email is [email protected].

Marc's new product looks great. I expect that SkyView will interface with it when we can. I'd like to know how many people are planning to install the VP-X. If you email me, please include how soon you plan to install it. I'd also be interested in know which model RV, and whether you are building new or retrofitting.

Thanks,
Robert
Dynon Marketing
 
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No, the functions of the VP-200 are fairly extensive and it would be significantly more effort on the part of the EFIS vendors to integrate that functionality.

The mode switching, emergency handling, automatic load shedding, automatic checklists, auto-boost, dimming, remote key fob, mag check functions, dual independent bus support, bus management, etc. are unique to the VP-200 for the foreseeable future.

I agree with you that it would be compelling to see these functions on an EFIS.

tdhanson said:
Are there plans to add the functionality of the VP200 into this system using an EFIS as the display? I'm looking for such things as the checklists and especially the mode sensing displays such as after startup and such.
Click to expand...
 
Finally! The VP products have always intrigued me, but the lack of integration with EFIS systems was an obvious handicap in cost and function. I asked this question at Arlington and I got a nudge-nudge, wink-wink so I new it was coming.

More significantly, the VP-X has more switched outputs than the VP-50, making it more useful.

I have duplicated all of the VP-X control functions in my HRII using discrete switches and relays. Obviously the relays don't have programmable outputs, but the end result was very economical. The total cost is about $25 per protected circuit (22 circuits) plus the cost of trim controllers, flap controllers, flap-airspeed alarm, wig-wag controller and so on. Probably an all-up cost of about $800.

Nevertheless, it is primitive in comparison and does not have the flexibility of the VP system, or the reliability of the solid state relays. My solution's biggest benefit is that it can be serviced by anyone using off the shelf devices. Ten or Twenty years from now it will still be the case.

My reluctance in using VP was the final point... when something goes wrong, the company better still be in business! I'm now convinced that VP will be around in the long run, removing the most significant barrier to adoption.

The apparent cost seems high compared to the discrete implementation that I designed, but the benefits are substantial. I am now seriously considering removing my existing stuff and using the VP-X. I'm early in the wiring so this is a good time to reconsider.

Some constructive feedback:
- I need 3-axis trim
- You need to get Dynon on board as another option.
- You should publish your control protocol.

Nice Job

Vern Little
 
Mark - congrats on what will surely be a great product for you, and for E-AB aircraft in general. It is a very exciting time in experimental avionics now as we are starting to see separate companies come together to offer more integrated solutions.

It would be great someday to be able to have OEM-like integration (think G1000) with multiple, low cost experimental vendors supplying the equipment. Kind of like open-source avionics.

Keep up the good work!
 
Let Dynon know.

vlittle said:
- You need to get Dynon on board as another option.

Vern Little
Click to expand...

Hey Vern,

Please let Dynon know your interest in the VP-X system. I'm certain that Marc has already shown Dynon the benefits of the system, but until Dynon gets enough feedback from customers, I don't think they'll do anything. I think most people want to see it. Contact Robert Hamilton in the quote below. Tell all your friends to e-mail him too. ;)

DFlyer said:
All, my direct email is [email protected].

Marc's new product looks great. I expect that SkyView will interface with it when we can. I'd like to know how many people are planning to install the VP-X. If you email me, please include how soon you plan to install it. I'd also be interested in know which model RV, and whether you are building new or retrofitting.

Thanks,
Robert
Dynon Marketing
Click to expand...
 
Vern, regarding the 3-axis trim... wire the third axis from one of the 2 amp power pins. You must wire it in a conventional manner, and typically customers will wire the roll axis this way, so you get yaw and pitch on trim display. Roll is simply a spring so if it is off it is not critical.

I'm sure as you dig in you'll see the VP-X does quite a lot more than switching and circuit protection. :)
 
MCA said:
Vern, regarding the 3-axis trim... wire the third axis from one of the 2 amp power pins. You must wire it in a conventional manner, and typically customers will wire the roll axis this way, so you get yaw and pitch on trim display. Roll is simply a spring so if it is off it is not critical.

I'm sure as you dig in you'll see the VP-X does quite a lot more than switching and circuit protection. :)
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree, there's lots of functionality. I am short one 20A circuit for a smoke system, but that can be an external breaker.

V
 
just a shameless plug for the vertical power (and we have no other interest involved other than for them to stick around for a while ;-):

we're very early adopters (serial number 23) of the vertical power 200 system... it has greatly simplified wiring (and planning) in the construction process. (besides giving some more glass factor to our panel *G*)

so far, during the many hours of testing etc... everything has worked like a charm :) and the added features are almost overkill for a day-vfr RV (they responded to that by introducing more basic products like VP50 or the VP-X) but the 200 was the only available at the time.
also, marc has been very quick and helpful with responding to emails/questions.

so i suggest everyone to at least give it a serious evaluation vs the traditional way of doing it.

rgds,
bernie
 
Leading the way....

Tomorrows update of the MGL G2 software (version 1.0.0.2) includes support for the Vertical power VP-X.

The VP-X integration is a two step process, the first step (released tomorrow) allows the full configuration of the VP-X, control and status over all of the circuit breakers in a dedicated screen as well as a suit of components that can be used for those making up their own screens (for example you might want to show a row of circuit breakers on a given screen).

The second step will be included with the next update and this adds dedicated VP-X trim and flap displays (in addition to the existing displays via the IOX extentions) and a few small "specials" as well as support to update the VP-X software via the EFIS should there be new releases.

The Odyssey simulator now includes a VP-X emulator that you can use to design your own screens containing VP-X circuit breakers or just use to get a feel for the VP-X.

For all those building and considering which way to go, the VP-X is an ideal solution and it has my full support. It comes highly recommended.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
While it's still a ways off...I've been looking at MGL and VP for some time now. This is getting good. ;)
 
Too integrated?

While I like the added functionality that this system gives to your EFIS, I'm wondering how you manage a fault condition that takes out your EFIS. When you need to know which other circuits have failed, you've lost your ability to see the breakers. This is an interesting product but for my concern about giving too much control to one instrument. For this reason, I'd be more inclined to use the VP-50 with its ability to monitor circuit status independently of the EFIS.
 
What's the availability of the VP-X? Any 'deals' for the VP-X at SnF? Is the VP-X currently working with AFS EFIS and EFIS/EMS products?

Thanks
 
The VP-X is in manufacturing and ships by the end of April. The wiring harness kits are available now, as is the empty shell boxes for fit.

AFS is working on the software now and should be ready in the summer. You can pre-wire now and then do a software upgrade. MGL just released their first software drop, and GRT is working on it as well. You can see these at Sun n Fun.

If the EFIS fails, as far as the electical system is concerned, you only lose the ability to see status and reset faults. This is about the same as using fuses. The trim, flaps, switches, and ciurcuit protect all work fine without the EFIS.

We have several different products to meet different builder's needs. :)
 
I'd buy one in a heartbeat except AFS' summer software upgrade schedule won't work for me. I've got an RV-8 that is down for a panel upgrade including a 4500EF and a 3400EE. I need to be back in the air by the end of May at the latest.

Unless......is there a way to install the VP-X box and use something else to control/monitor systems until the AFS software is released? Can a VP-50 display talk to the VP-X? Or some other method until AFS releases the updated software?
 
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