Van's Air Force
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EFii Boost Pump module
- Thread starter mdaniell
- Start date
I have one that came out of the first manufacturing lot, and while I have not flown it yet, I'm very impressed with the engineering and construction. I was given a chance to look inside, and the quality of the parts is impressive. Yes, it is a very-easy-to-install package, and fit the confines of our RV-3 space nicely. The pump itself is very well-proven technology.
I am really looking forward to flying with the thing!
Paul
I am really looking forward to flying with the thing!
Paul
FrankFlies
I'm New Here
Saw the boost pump
My partner and I have started finishing an RV-7 kit that we picked up.
I was in Los Angeles last week and stopped in to see the EFII folks.
Their boost pump sure looks nice, and they seemed like good people to work with. I think we will try one of their kits.
Frank
RV-7, building
My partner and I have started finishing an RV-7 kit that we picked up.
I was in Los Angeles last week and stopped in to see the EFII folks.
Their boost pump sure looks nice, and they seemed like good people to work with. I think we will try one of their kits.
Frank
RV-7, building
FrankFlies
I'm New Here
gathering parts
Looks like we have decided to use the Airflow injection on our project. Though after our visit to the EFII folks, we decided to use their boost pump. Just looks like a quality part.
Thanks to others for the installation photos of the pump. I'll try to put up a couple here when we get ours in.
Frank
Looks like we have decided to use the Airflow injection on our project. Though after our visit to the EFII folks, we decided to use their boost pump. Just looks like a quality part.
Thanks to others for the installation photos of the pump. I'll try to put up a couple here when we get ours in.
Frank
I'm trying to figure out how to best install this in the -10. Looked at Bruce's pictures and it gave me a few more ideas...but...
Van's method mounts the pump directly to the bottom skin...so it must be strong enough to hold the weight.
The first picture below spreads the load out a bit more, but the angles will be closer to the flanges of the tunnel sides. The wooden sticks are there just to lift the pump up off of the angle's corner radius.
This one takes up less space, but is weaker in lateral with the assembly's high center of gravity.
Does anyone else have some pictures of their install? Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
-Jim
Van's method mounts the pump directly to the bottom skin...so it must be strong enough to hold the weight.
The first picture below spreads the load out a bit more, but the angles will be closer to the flanges of the tunnel sides. The wooden sticks are there just to lift the pump up off of the angle's corner radius.
This one takes up less space, but is weaker in lateral with the assembly's high center of gravity.
Does anyone else have some pictures of their install? Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
-Jim
In the -3, I built cross-brackets and hung them it and the fuel filter from a couple of ribs that run from the firewall to the main spar. Might give you an idea.
Paul
Paul
It's a cleanable screen filter from a racing supplier - I just liked the way it mounted better, and I am more likely to clean a filter than replace one.
The angle is probably .063....whatever it is, it is PLENTY rigid for this mount (short span).
Paul
RV-9A installation
I finished up my installation tonight and took some more pictures.
I was able to fit the pump assembly under the stock Van's F/I doghouse cover. It took some modifications to the center tunnel cover F-982C. I built up my own shelf for the pump from .063 sheet. I also cut the lower flanges off the stock tunnel cover (it did not sit flat between the floor angles). I purchased a 4' piece of AA3-032x3/4x3/4 from Van's to use as the new flanges.
I made the new floor a bit longer in order to fit the pump assembly. Some K1000-3 nutplates and AN3-22A bolts hold down the assembly.
More photos and comments about the installation on my web site.
I finished up my installation tonight and took some more pictures.
I was able to fit the pump assembly under the stock Van's F/I doghouse cover. It took some modifications to the center tunnel cover F-982C. I built up my own shelf for the pump from .063 sheet. I also cut the lower flanges off the stock tunnel cover (it did not sit flat between the floor angles). I purchased a 4' piece of AA3-032x3/4x3/4 from Van's to use as the new flanges.
I made the new floor a bit longer in order to fit the pump assembly. Some K1000-3 nutplates and AN3-22A bolts hold down the assembly.
More photos and comments about the installation on my web site.
David-aviator
Well Known Member
Fuel Heater?
Just my 2 cents worth on this package (and the Andair pump) and it may not be worth that, but it has been on my mind ever since I first saw the Andair set up coming from the relatively cool climate country where it was invented. Perhaps it has been considered in the basic design but I have read no data addressing the matter.
To the point, I wonder about recirculating fuel in such a confined area especially in a hot climate where incoming fuel could be at a high temperature. I do believe 100LL is near its vapor point at 110 degrees. Take Robert Paisley's dark blue RV-7 sitting out on the ramp in 100F weather. It would not be inconceivable for the temperature of the fuel to be near 100 when it is sucked into the pump. That sucking action lowers the boiling point of fuel at the inlet.
In observing the neat video demonstration of how the EFII works, high pressure fuel is relieved back through the system, joins incoming fuel and re-enters the pump. It would seem logical that under a no flow or low flow situation fuel temperature would increase. Electric pumps create heat, they certainly do not cool fuel. That increase in fuel temperature coupled with a drop in pressure just before the pump could be a point of vaporization. Electric pumps will not suck vapor.
Just wondering if anyone has thought about this scenario and the confined area where the device will be operating. There will be no air flow to help control its temperature in very hot weather.
Just my 2 cents worth on this package (and the Andair pump) and it may not be worth that, but it has been on my mind ever since I first saw the Andair set up coming from the relatively cool climate country where it was invented. Perhaps it has been considered in the basic design but I have read no data addressing the matter.
To the point, I wonder about recirculating fuel in such a confined area especially in a hot climate where incoming fuel could be at a high temperature. I do believe 100LL is near its vapor point at 110 degrees. Take Robert Paisley's dark blue RV-7 sitting out on the ramp in 100F weather. It would not be inconceivable for the temperature of the fuel to be near 100 when it is sucked into the pump. That sucking action lowers the boiling point of fuel at the inlet.
In observing the neat video demonstration of how the EFII works, high pressure fuel is relieved back through the system, joins incoming fuel and re-enters the pump. It would seem logical that under a no flow or low flow situation fuel temperature would increase. Electric pumps create heat, they certainly do not cool fuel. That increase in fuel temperature coupled with a drop in pressure just before the pump could be a point of vaporization. Electric pumps will not suck vapor.
Just wondering if anyone has thought about this scenario and the confined area where the device will be operating. There will be no air flow to help control its temperature in very hot weather.
Thanks to all who have added to the discussion. As a follow-up, here's how I did it.
A few things to add:
- I have two negative leads; one to the housing and another to be grounded at a undetermined location.
- I threaded the bolts into the aluminum housing and secured with a star washer. Considering safety wire, but haven't gone that way yet. Or maybe I'll wick some thread lock there once I know I'm not pulling it apart anymore.
- Seemed like a good place to try wire lacing for the first time. Following the EAA video, it was pretty easy.
- Yes, I know by using those hand-shake connectors I'm introducing an additional failure point; but I think the advantage of wiring it on the bench outweighs the negative.
- The fuel filter will be mounted to the top-plate with an adel clamp.
- The line will run from the fuel valve forward through the filter then 180 into the pump. After pressurizing the flow aft, it'll once again 180 to run into the flow sensor. I chose this route so that I'll a nice straight shot into the fuel sensor and hopefully mitigate the fluctuation problem.
- Before torque sealing the fittings, I pulled them, added some fuel lube and then reinstalled.
A couple follow up questions:
Bruce,
Are you concerned about the pressure on those tabs? If I had gone that way, I think it would have added a tubing spacer to carry the load from the nut to the bolt head without putting undue pressure on the housing. Sure wouldn't want that to crack.
Also, where did you get an adel clamp that big?
Thanks for the help. If anyone notices anything amiss, please let me know.
-Jim
A few things to add:
- I have two negative leads; one to the housing and another to be grounded at a undetermined location.
- I threaded the bolts into the aluminum housing and secured with a star washer. Considering safety wire, but haven't gone that way yet. Or maybe I'll wick some thread lock there once I know I'm not pulling it apart anymore.
- Seemed like a good place to try wire lacing for the first time. Following the EAA video, it was pretty easy.
- Yes, I know by using those hand-shake connectors I'm introducing an additional failure point; but I think the advantage of wiring it on the bench outweighs the negative.
- The fuel filter will be mounted to the top-plate with an adel clamp.
- The line will run from the fuel valve forward through the filter then 180 into the pump. After pressurizing the flow aft, it'll once again 180 to run into the flow sensor. I chose this route so that I'll a nice straight shot into the fuel sensor and hopefully mitigate the fluctuation problem.
- Before torque sealing the fittings, I pulled them, added some fuel lube and then reinstalled.
A couple follow up questions:
Bruce,
Are you concerned about the pressure on those tabs? If I had gone that way, I think it would have added a tubing spacer to carry the load from the nut to the bolt head without putting undue pressure on the housing. Sure wouldn't want that to crack.
Also, where did you get an adel clamp that big?
Thanks for the help. If anyone notices anything amiss, please let me know.
-Jim
rcpaisley
Well Known Member
Some nice looking EFII pump installations
Hi Jim,
Your installation looks very nice - good job!
The large Adel clamp on Bruces filter comes with the EFII kit.
To address David's questions about heat; you are right about heat from the pump, this exists with all boost pumps. The mitigating factor is that when the engine is running, there is flow through the system. So the incoming fuel from the tank becomes the predominant thermal force. The pressurized fuel that exists after the boost pump is not a liability even at high ambient temps. Fuel vaporization requires a combination of warm fuel and/or low pressures. Warm fuel can't vaporize at high pressures.
Robert
Hi Jim,
Your installation looks very nice - good job!
The large Adel clamp on Bruces filter comes with the EFII kit.
To address David's questions about heat; you are right about heat from the pump, this exists with all boost pumps. The mitigating factor is that when the engine is running, there is flow through the system. So the incoming fuel from the tank becomes the predominant thermal force. The pressurized fuel that exists after the boost pump is not a liability even at high ambient temps. Fuel vaporization requires a combination of warm fuel and/or low pressures. Warm fuel can't vaporize at high pressures.
Robert
one additional question
I assume that in the case of the EFII system, and I also beleive in the Andair system, that the filters are in series with the pump/regulator. If that is the case, I would assume that there is no blocked filter bypass provision??
I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that there is a blocked filter bypass in some other commonly used designs.
I am not suggesting that that is a "stopper" for use of these systems, or that all of my assumptions are correct (please some one who knows feel free to correct my assumptions). Everything has it's pros and cons, but just wondering how the users of this system figure that into their risk management calculation??
I assume that in the case of the EFII system, and I also beleive in the Andair system, that the filters are in series with the pump/regulator. If that is the case, I would assume that there is no blocked filter bypass provision??
I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that there is a blocked filter bypass in some other commonly used designs.
I am not suggesting that that is a "stopper" for use of these systems, or that all of my assumptions are correct (please some one who knows feel free to correct my assumptions). Everything has it's pros and cons, but just wondering how the users of this system figure that into their risk management calculation??
Gary - here is what Robert Paisley posted on another thread when someone asked about plugged filter bypass on the Andair:
In all fairness to Andair, there is no filter bypass on the AFP pump, the Andair pump or our pump. The line you see that goes to the input side of the AFP filter is the return line from the fuel pressure regulator. This line can not flow in reverse to bypass the filter.
The filters used in these applications are large hole screen mesh filters that are meant only to catch large particulates. They typically are not a clog point unless you have a ton of junk in your fuel system.
That being said there are people who take the design a step further and use a separate filter in-line on each tank supply line before the selector valve. The idea being that if a filter on one tank supply line gets clogged, you still have the other tank with it's separate filter available as a source of fuel.
Our kit comes with two fuel filters. Originally intended as a spare for your first annual, we have seen quite a few people utilize the second filter as described above. Is this overkill? Good question. The system will work either way.
Robert Paisley
EFII Boost Pump Kit
The filters used in these applications are large hole screen mesh filters that are meant only to catch large particulates. They typically are not a clog point unless you have a ton of junk in your fuel system.
That being said there are people who take the design a step further and use a separate filter in-line on each tank supply line before the selector valve. The idea being that if a filter on one tank supply line gets clogged, you still have the other tank with it's separate filter available as a source of fuel.
Our kit comes with two fuel filters. Originally intended as a spare for your first annual, we have seen quite a few people utilize the second filter as described above. Is this overkill? Good question. The system will work either way.
Robert Paisley
EFII Boost Pump Kit
Those tabs/ears are pretty beefy. In addition, the entire pump assembly is sandwiched between a bottom and top plate that spreads the load. The torque on an AN3 bolt is probably not going to add enough pressure on the housing to cause me concern.
I did not get the adel clamp from Robert. I bought one from my local industrial supply store (Marshall's Hardware in San Diego). It is an electrical conduit clamp.
704CH
Well Known Member
My Contribution to the EFII pump install
Hey Guys, Here is my contribution at installing the EFII Pump in my -7.. Went pretty well I think, although I am new at working with the 3/8 inch pipe, so that was a painful learning curve. A few things about my install:
Let me know what you think of the mounting job overall.. I am happy with it, but always looking for experienced feedback or concerns.
Key Pics are shown here.. For more details see my recent blog entries (May 25th 2011) in my blog: http://www.704ch.com/
Thanks
Hey Guys, Here is my contribution at installing the EFII Pump in my -7.. Went pretty well I think, although I am new at working with the 3/8 inch pipe, so that was a painful learning curve. A few things about my install:
- I used the AA3-032 x ? x ? angle to reinforce the tunnel cover as it nested perfectly.
- I used regular ? inch angle as additional support under the mount and removed material per photos for future wire runs.
- I had planned on securing the pump to the assembly with nutplates so it could be removed from the top, but the mounting holes in the EFII pump were not consistently drilled and some of them required shaving the head of the AN3 bolts to allow them to slip in.. Thus I had to use standard nuts underneath since I couldn?t turn the bolt heads.. More detailed pics in my builders log.
Let me know what you think of the mounting job overall.. I am happy with it, but always looking for experienced feedback or concerns.
Key Pics are shown here.. For more details see my recent blog entries (May 25th 2011) in my blog: http://www.704ch.com/
Thanks
Robert, I did get the clamp shortly after your post...sorry I didn't reply with a confirmation earlier. Thanks for sending it to me! -Jim
I'd say take one of those two washers out so that you have a full thread showing past the nylon lock-nut and maybe a longer bolts which are threaded into the efii housing. Other than that, looks really good!
Let me know what you think of the mounting job overall.. I am happy with it, but always looking for experienced feedback or concerns.
rcpaisley
Well Known Member
Boost pump mounting info
Hi Chad,
Your pics look great!
Below are a couple of pics showing a mounting hint.
The holes are all CNC drilled and tapped. In the first pic you can see that the manifold steps out on the right side (blue arrow). This is why the mounting holes are closer to the adjacent material on that side of the manifold.
In the second pic, you can see a nifty way to mount the module into nut plates using a #10-32 Allen bolt and a -3 washer through the mounting hole. The washer on the side with less bolt head clearance needs a slight trim on the side for everything to fall together nicely.
I hope that helps
Robert
Hi Chad,
Your pics look great!
Below are a couple of pics showing a mounting hint.
The holes are all CNC drilled and tapped. In the first pic you can see that the manifold steps out on the right side (blue arrow). This is why the mounting holes are closer to the adjacent material on that side of the manifold.
In the second pic, you can see a nifty way to mount the module into nut plates using a #10-32 Allen bolt and a -3 washer through the mounting hole. The washer on the side with less bolt head clearance needs a slight trim on the side for everything to fall together nicely.
I hope that helps
Robert
N8RV
Well Known Member
Tight in an -8
I've been struggling with squeezing the EFii unit, sans filter, in between the front of the gear leg tower and the firewall. There really isn't a whole lot of room there for this unit. I think I finally figured out how I'm going to make it work, but it's a tight fit.
I'll post pics when I finish the plumbing. I think that some changes in fittings would make a world of difference in fitting this into an RV-8.
I've been struggling with squeezing the EFii unit, sans filter, in between the front of the gear leg tower and the firewall. There really isn't a whole lot of room there for this unit. I think I finally figured out how I'm going to make it work, but it's a tight fit.
I'll post pics when I finish the plumbing. I think that some changes in fittings would make a world of difference in fitting this into an RV-8.
rcpaisley
Well Known Member
Short and tight!
Hi Don,
Here is a pic with 90s directly on the Boost Pump Module.
This brings the overall length to 11" (the parallax in the pic makes it look a tad longer than that).
This should allow you to maximize your space saving.
Let me know how it goes
Robert
Hi Don,
Here is a pic with 90s directly on the Boost Pump Module.
This brings the overall length to 11" (the parallax in the pic makes it look a tad longer than that).
This should allow you to maximize your space saving.
Let me know how it goes
Robert
Last edited:
rcpaisley
Well Known Member
One more thing
I forgot to mention that the 90s pictured are fittings with an o-ring seal on the end that goes into the Boost Pump Module and a male -6 on the other end. These give the tightest exit from the pump area and allow the fitting to be clocked at any angle.
If anyone needs these fittings, just let me know,
Robert
I forgot to mention that the 90s pictured are fittings with an o-ring seal on the end that goes into the Boost Pump Module and a male -6 on the other end. These give the tightest exit from the pump area and allow the fitting to be clocked at any angle.
If anyone needs these fittings, just let me know,
Robert
N8RV
Well Known Member
Hi Don,
Here is a pic with 90s directly on the Boost Pump Module.
This brings the overall length to 11" (the parallax in the pic makes it look a tad longer than that).
This should allow you to maximize your space saving.
Let me know how it goes
Robert
I've had the EFii pump working flawlessly since June. It's very quiet and so far, reliable. Fuel pressure comes up nicely when I prime, and I'm very happy with it.
Robert, I posted pics of the installation (which would have been MUCH easier if I hadn't had to crawl through the baggage compartment door to reverse-engineer the installation!) on this thread:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=73125
I'm a happy camper with my EFii fuel pump and would recommend any builder consider it for use in his RV.
Editorial comment: Robert, my endorsement doesn't mean squat. However, once "Junior" takes wing, Paul Dye will post his review and your sales will SOAR!
Tandem46
Well Known Member
Enlarged the photos so you can actually see them
Below is my installation of my EFII Boost Pump. This was a retro fit job. I flew with the AFP setup for over 800hrs with NO problems. I decided to go with the EFII because it just looked cleaner. I reused my AFP filter instead of the EFII filters. I like the AFP because its cleanable. Also, my AFP setup had 3003 tubing but I decided to go with teflon hoses and worked with Tom Swearengen of TS Flightlines. I had him make my FWF hoses earlier this year when I swapped out all my old rubber ones and he does excellent work. I have a teflon hose for the aluminum tube between the firewall and fuel flow transducer, but need to make an adjustment before installing it. I've only flown about 10hrs or so with the new pump, but so far everything is "nominal".
That looks really nice Tobin!
Yup, I'm looking forward to firing ours up - hopefully soon, but it'll be when it'll be....
Yup, I'm looking forward to firing ours up - hopefully soon, but it'll be when it'll be....
