EarthX lithium batteries STC's for more Cessna aircraft

[EarthX Lithium]

We know many Van's aircraft owners have multiple planes so we thought we would share some great news.

EarthX has just received more STC’s approvals for the following Cessna aircraft:

• C177, 177A, 177B, 177RG
• C180, 180A, 180B, 180C, 180D, 180E, 180F, 180G, 180H, 180J, 180K
• C182, 182A, 182B, 182C, 182D
• C185, 185A, 185B, 185C, 185D, 185E, A185E, A185F
• C120, 140, 150, (A-C), 175, (A-C)



This STC replaces the original aircraft battery, the G-35 lead acid battery.

Model: ETX900-TSO- Weight-5.4 pounds - Cold Cranking Amps- 390
Original lead acid model and spec's-G-35- Weight- 27 pounds - Cold Cranking Amps- 250

Benefits:
Instant weight saving of 21.6 pounds.
Increase in cranking power of 140 amps.
Life span is rated at 6 years.
Does not freeze, corrode, or boil over. No lead and no acid.
Increase your usable load.
Save on fuel costs.
Increase your climb rate.
Shorter take off roll.

Initial investment for the battery and STC kit is $894. The STC paperwork is offered free of charge.
Other Cessna models with STC approval are:
C182E-Q

EarthX mission is to invest time and resources in the aviation market to develop new; better; and advanced technology in the starter battery market and replace the 170+ year old technology, one of the oldest technologies still in use. EarthX has several other aircraft models with STC’s and many more are coming. EarthX is also “getting the lead out” of current Type Certificated aircraft straight from the factory, the future is “light” and “bright.”

Check it out at www.earthxbatteries.com or call EarthX at 970.674.8884

 

[rmarshall234]

Sweet! Nice work and a nice post.

Lead acid batteries for aviation are soon to become relics. Like rotary dial telephones. I can’t wait.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Do you work for them? Sounds like an Ad. A little. A good AGM for half to 1/3rd the price is a good compromise and less likely to burst into a conflrigration hotter than the sun.** I also know that certified planes are limited FLA, but but for experimental AGM is a good choice.

** Not saying they have; just they could. Also they are expensive and the 6 yr life is a claim. Likely they can do it, but like all batteries if you abuse or neglect them (deep discharge) you can shorten the life like any battery.

 

[dmattmul]

Don’t work for them

Just was glad to be a part of early developers. My 2 Earth X batteries have been in use over 3 years and in the airframe now 5 years. Test every 6 months and still over 95% ampacity left. FWF mounted. Upper FWF ambient conditions 125 F on average. Lower FWF battery regularly sees 155 F ambient. Yes not a good install so monitor it regularly and closely. Loosing 22 lbs worth the added monitoring. We are after all suppose to be Experimental builders. Great to see more STC’s coming out of Earth X. Well deserved.

 

[rmarshall234]

I’ve never spoken with them and actually have a competitor’s LiIon battery in my bird. The incredible weight savings and improved performance and eliminating lead acid are the game-changing attributes in my book. And now, the FAA is allowing us to choose. Wow. It’s not often so many “wins” come packaged together.

 

[jliltd]

I’ve never spoken with them and actually have a competitor’s LiIon battery in my bird.

EarthX are not LiIon (Lithium Ion), they are LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron). In case of runaway voltage the "Ion" version can burst into a flame thrower and the EarthX "Iron" will sizzle and smoke thus being safer. Plus the EarthX advanced BMS circuitry (latest update to BMS in 2023 being best yet) should shut things down before things get to the breakdown point. You still want to vent the EarthX if not installed FWF due to the potential for smoke in the cockpit. Think what it takes to get the FAA to approve an STC in today's regulatory environment and it makes sense the EarthX BMS has to be the best.

All that said beware the Gomer at a remote airport that tries to jump start your dead Lithium-anything battery from his farm tractor (I kind of resemble this remark). Or tries to charge it with a 70's vintage Sears battery charger. These ain't your grand dad's lead acid or sealed RG batteries.

 

[RV8iator]

Love em

I’m not at all connected with EarthX in any way except as a very satisfied user.

I started using them back in 2012 or 13, and have had extremely good experience with both the product, the service they provide.

 

[bertschb]

I definitely plan to use LiFePO4 batteries for my new build. It's great to see EarthX working hard to expand the technology.

 

[Dugaru]

Other STCs

My buddy is crossing his fingers that they’ll do an STC for the Cessna 120. He could use the extra useful load!

We know many Van's aircraft owners have multiple planes so we thought we would share some great news.

EarthX has just received more STC’s approvals for the following Cessna aircraft:

• C177, 177A, 177B, 177RG
• C180, 180A, 180B, 180C, 180D, 180E, 180F, 180G, 180H, 180J, 180K
• C182, 182A, 182B, 182C, 182D
• C185, 185A, 185B, 185C, 185D, 185E, A185E, A185F

This STC replaces the original aircraft battery, the G-35 lead acid battery.

Model: ETX900-TSO- Weight-5.4 pounds - Cold Cranking Amps- 390
Original lead acid model and spec's-G-35- Weight- 27 pounds - Cold Cranking Amps- 250

Benefits:
Instant weight saving of 21.6 pounds.
Increase in cranking power of 140 amps.
Life span is rated at 6 years.
Does not freeze, corrode, or boil over. No lead and no acid.
Increase your usable load.
Save on fuel costs.
Increase your climb rate.
Shorter take off roll.

Initial investment for the battery and STC kit is $894. The STC paperwork is offered free of charge.
Other Cessna models with STC approval are:
C182E-Q

EarthX mission is to invest time and resources in the aviation market to develop new; better; and advanced technology in the starter battery market and replace the 170+ year old technology, one of the oldest technologies still in use. EarthX has several other aircraft models with STC’s and many more are coming. EarthX is also “getting the lead out” of current Type Certificated aircraft straight from the factory, the future is “light” and “bright.”

Check it out at www.earthxbatteries.com or call EarthX at 970.674.8884

 

[lr172]

... Or tries to charge it with a 70's vintage Sears battery charger. These ain't your grand dad's lead acid or sealed RG batteries.

curious why you say that. The 70's vintage sears charger does, pretty much, what your alternator does every time you run the engine. Maybe you meant don't leave it on unattended for long periods. I agree there are much better tools to charge this battery, but your earthx is going to see a great deal of time getting exactly what the sears charger gives.

 

[rmarshall234]

There is more effort and money being spent on battery technology than anything else these days and none of that is being wasted on lead acid batteries. Making the switch is one of those “ seeing is believing “ things. Just hold a modern technology battery in one hand and a lead acid battery in the other and you’ll be convinced. Oh wait…that’s not possible bc it takes both hands and some leg strength to hold a lead acid battery.


An A&P/IA friend jokingly said he’s going to hollow out a lead acid battery and install a modern technology battery inside so he can save 25 lbs on his Cessna. I’m not sure how much fuel is being saved on each flight by leaving 25 lbs sitting on the ramp but it must certainly help offset the purchase price which is going to come down anyway as more peeps adopt the tech.

 

[EarthX Lithium]

Cessna 120 STC

My buddy is crossing his fingers that they’ll do an STC for the Cessna 120. He could use the extra useful load!

Hi Dugaru,

Great news for your friends, this is in the works right now and should be added to our AML STC list, along with many others in the next couple of month, dependent on the FAA work schedule. We try to keep our STC list as current as possible and have it on our website here:

https://earthxbatteries.com/list-of-stcs/

 

[EarthX Lithium]

Sweet! Nice work and a nice post.

Lead acid batteries for aviation are soon to become relics. Like rotary dial telephones. I can’t wait.

Ha! We would love to see that happen but I hope Concorde and Gill don't see your post, they are already pretty unhappy about us.

 

[EarthX Lithium]

curious why you say that. The 70's vintage sears charger does, pretty much, what your alternator does every time you run the engine. Maybe you meant don't leave it on unattended for long periods. I agree there are much better tools to charge this battery, but your earthx is going to see a great deal of time getting exactly what the sears charger gives.

You ask a great question and we do address it in detail at this link if you want a more indepth answer.https://earthxbatteries.com/our-batteries/battery-charging/

The old school chargers had/have very crude charging profiles and voltage regulation. This is why people use to "fry" their lead acid batteries in the past. The lead acid battery technology has not changed much over the past 170+ years, but the chargers have and regardless of what type of battery you are using, it would be prudent to use a modern charger.

The charging system on the aircraft have also been updated for most planes that are 50+ years old too. Hope this helps answer your question.

 

[EarthX Lithium]

I’m not at all connected with EarthX in any way except as a very satisfied user.

I started using them back in 2012 or 13, and have had extremely good experience with both the product, the service they provide.

Thank you Jerry "Widget" for your compliment and we do appreciate you and all of the fabulous comments from our customers. We truly do aim to please.

 

[RV8JD]

EarthX are not LiIon (Lithium Ion), they are LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron).

The above is not wholly correct. 'Lithium-Ion' batteries covers a multitude of different Li-Ion battery chemistries, of which LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is but one of them. EarthX batteries are 'Lithium-Ion' batteries that use the LiFePO4 chemistry. It is true that the LiFePO4 chemistry is one of the more stable variants when properly managed by a well-designed and executed BMS.

Other popular Lithium-Ion chemistry variants are Lithium Polymer (Li-Po) which is used in many handheld devices, and Lithium Cobalt Oxide (LiCoO2) which Boeing uses in the 787 models.

 

[jclark]

CONGRATS!!!

I know that you guys have been working on this for QUITE SOME TIME.
All 7435 pages of test results. Just kidding, it only took 5347!

Couldn’t be happening to a nicer set of people.

Disclosure: Been “hanging out” with the EarthX crew over a decade now. Tested a few and ruined a couple (“MY BAD” doing something beyond what was approved, but subsequent versions were made “James proof”. .) Made a lot of suggestions and I think they even took one!!

Always felt that they would end up on top, especially after the other “big battery companies” just brushed me off when I mentioned the technology.

 

[EarthX Lithium]

CONGRATS!!!

I know that you guys have been working on this for QUITE SOME TIME.
All 7435 pages of test results. Just kidding, it only took 5347!

Couldn’t be happening to a nicer set of people.

Disclosure: Been “hanging out” with the EarthX crew over a decade now. Tested a few and ruined a couple (“MY BAD” doing something beyond what was approved, but subsequent versions were made “James proof”. .) Made a lot of suggestions and I think they even took one!!

Always felt that they would end up on top, especially after the other “big battery companies” just brushed me off when I mentioned the technology.

Thank you James, you have always been in our corner and excited about the advancements made in aviaiton, all advancements. Having customers like you is very rewarding and one of the huge charms of going to trade shows. Getting to actually MEET our past, current, and possible future customers.

See you at Oshkosh 2023!

 

[gmcjetpilot]

EarthX are not LiIon (Lithium Ion), they are LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron). In case of runaway voltage the "Ion" version can burst into a flame thrower and the EarthX "Iron" will sizzle and smoke thus being safer. Plus the EarthX advanced BMS circuitry (latest update to BMS in 2023 being best yet) should shut things down before things get to the breakdown point. You still want to vent the EarthX if not installed FWF due to the potential for smoke in the cockpit. Think what it takes to get the FAA to approve an STC in today's regulatory environment and it makes sense the EarthX BMS has to be the best.

All that said beware the Gomer at a remote airport that tries to jump start your dead Lithium-anything battery from his farm tractor (I kind of resemble this remark). Or tries to charge it with a 70's vintage Sears battery charger. These ain't your grand dad's lead acid or sealed RG batteries.

True LiFePO4 is better. The issue is the heat under the cowl. Mounting aft of firewall is cooler but a battery "sizzle" would be bad if not in a container and vented out of cockpit. The RV4 and RV6 batteies are aft of firewall.

 

[dmattmul]

STC FWF

True LiFePO4 is better. The issue is the heat under the cowl. Mounting aft of firewall is cooler but a battery "sizzle" would be bad if not in a container and vented out of cockpit. The RV4 and RV6 batteies are aft of firewall.

Pretty sure you will see STC approvals FWF by year end unless you have data to demonstrate “heat under the cowl” an issue. Advise (Or better yet document here) your concerns and include engineering data to back it up, please……….

 

[jclark]

YMMV

Pretty sure you will see STC approvals FWF by year end unless you have data to demonstrate “heat under the cowl” an issue. Advise (Or better yet document here) your concerns and include engineering data to back it up, please……….

Although the comment was not directed towards me, when we installed dual EarthC 680C’S in Widget’s RV8, on the firewall, we instrumented them to monitor “under the cowl” temperatures.

Never did the temps exceed those suggested by EarthX, nor have we had temperature issues over the last decade with his installation.

Of course, Your Mileage May Vary.

 

[dmattmul]

Manufactures specs

Although the comment was not directed towards me, when we installed dual EarthC 680C’S in Widget’s RV8, on the firewall, we instrumented them to monitor “under the cowl” temperatures.

Never did the temps exceed those suggested by EarthX, nor have we had temperature issues over the last decade with his installation.

Of course, Your Mileage May Vary.

It's always wise to abide by the manufactures specs which is 140 F operating and 158 F non-operating and use the indicator warning light to let you know early on if there is an issue. (For hi temp it triggers at 167 F) There must be a decent factor of safety even in this number as the manufacture's solution is "No action required in flight" just report the issue to maintenance. My 2 Earth-X batteries I installed ring thermocouples to monitor temps with appropriate alarming set up on the EFIS. Each conditional I discharge them down to 12.2 volts and insure I have at least 80% ampacity left. (I do and after 3 years have checked out greater than 95%) One battery mounted low on the firewall operates in the hottest part of my FWF and naturally closely watch it. (Would not recommend mounting a battery in the lower 50% by distance FWF) Just prefer to stick to data driven comments and solutions. Thanks

 

[EarthX Lithium]

Heat shortens life of battery, this is not a safety concern

Just a quick note to address the misconception about heat and its effect on the lithium battery. This is not a safety issue; it is a longevity issue.

The temperature parameters provided is to assure you receive the lifespan of the battery as heat is in the top reasons for a shortened life. The Odyssey PC680 battery is only rated to max 113 deg F compared to our max 140 deg F ti receive the longest lifespan.


The pilots handbook for your Van's aircraft states the max rating inside the engine cowling area should be no more than 180 deg F to protect the electronics in there and they say to open up your oil door or open your cowling.

For EarthX battery, at 200+ deg F the plastic ABS will start to distort, and the fault indicator LED would have illuminated to alert you when you reached approximately 170 deg F.

At approximately 600 deg F, the battery will go into thermal runaway. At 600 deg F, you have other issues in your aircraft you should be concerned with. We will provide you video documentation of what a thermal runaway looks like with the EarthX batteries soon as we are working on destructive videos to share. It is not as "explosive" as you imagine and most people when they google lithium battery fires are watching lithium cobalts....very different chemistry and reaction.

We will provide video documentation very soon about what happens to the batteries in a 2,000, yes, that is correct, 2,000 deg direct fire with a kerosene flame thrower for over 15 minutes and you will see what happens. This is one of the required tests by the FAA for FWF lithium battery installations. I would like to point out that the FAA does not require this test at all for a lead acid battery as the release of very explosive hydrogen gas and the explosion of acid everywhere including the toxic fumes make it way too dangerous.

Spoiler alert, you will see no explosion and the "sizzle" will be quite disappointing. Stand by for the video, (the tests have already been done) as we hope to have it live soon

 

[rmarshall234]

Now that these peeps are on my radar, I like them! Reminds me of Tom at Flightlines and Russ at SDS. There with good, practical and helpful advice, offered in fair and reasonable tone.

 

[bobnoffs]

i am a satisfied owner of 2 earthx batteries for 4 years. i do hear one comment that gives me a little concern......'' the internal electrical components will protect the battery while you glide into the trees''. if a battery shut itself off in flight how much further would you have been able to fly if the battery was allowed to function to its destruction? i would take sizzling over a power off emergency landing any day.

 

[rocketman1988]

i am a satisfied owner of 2 earthx batteries for 4 years. i do hear one comment that gives me a little concern......'' the internal electrical components will protect the battery while you glide into the trees''. if a battery shut itself off in flight how much further would you have been able to fly if the battery was allowed to function to its destruction? i would take sizzling over a power off emergency landing any day.

That sizzling would likely be accompanied by lots of smoke...

 

[bobnoffs]

bob,
yes probably , but it is a serious question. would the time that the battery shut itself off to when it actually quit functioning as a battery had it been left on allow time for an airport landing?
i did have one shut off on the ground while cranking and i wonder how long?
smoke and sizzle aside, how much time would the battery have lasted?

 

[dmattmul]

Personal Risks

i am a satisfied owner of 2 earthx batteries for 4 years. i do hear one comment that gives me a little concern......'' the internal electrical components will protect the battery while you glide into the trees''. if a battery shut itself off in flight how much further would you have been able to fly if the battery was allowed to function to its destruction? i would take sizzling over a power off emergency landing any day.

Not sure where you are hearing your "one comment" and was hoping someone in the RV-12 community would input data. So, you are concerned that your 12's charging system(s) would fail and you would not notice (despite being integrated with your EFIS) and you would let the battery(s) deplete to nothing (should take over an hour of inattentiveness) and then you want another 5 mins of inactivity before the engine dies? The BMS is meant to protect the battery (In low voltage issues) to ensure that a drain on the battery was inadvertent and you can do what I've seen lots of times owners do is apply a trickle charger to fix the issue. (Left the master on) The lower the BMS cuts off the drain the less time the owner has to charge the battery. (Batteries continue to drain despite the BMS stopping all discharge, eventually ruining them)

Flying an electron dependent engine and not notice you have lost your electrons is an issue. The BMS does not turn off the battery power for nothing.

 

[lr172]

The BMS is meant to protect the battery (In low voltage issues) to ensure that a drain on the battery ...

.

actually that is only ONE of the BMS' functions, but not the one that prevents me from using them. It has the ability to disconnect the battery cells from the battery terminals for a variety of reasons that it deems relevant to it's own safety, not just to prevent damage from a deep discharge. A couple folks here had an over voltage condition. Battery disconnected to protect itself and this dropped the massive capacitor from the system and proceeded to trash lots of avionics (unclear if a std battery would have saved the day or not, bus suspect it might have). This BMS is also an intelligent electronic device and that is also a risk. Stuff like that can fail or misbehave and the result could be dropping the battery out of the system and would be no surprise that this could happen during some elec system calamity that wiped out your alternator (i.e. the time that the battery is most needed).

Will I marvel at the benefits of this technology, I want an assurance that my battery will be there when I need it most and history has shown the old school box of lead will hang in there to the bitter end without complaint, even if it is self-destructing. I have also considered the lithiums batteries without a BMS (i.e. Shorai's for ATVs), but they also carriy a risk, just a different one (i.e. the ones that the BMS protects from). At this stage of the game, I am willing to accept the weight penalty for the benefits that are most important to me. Obviously everyone approaches the balancing of risks from a different perspective.

 

[EarthX Lithium]

i am a satisfied owner of 2 earthx batteries for 4 years. i do hear one comment that gives me a little concern......'' the internal electrical components will protect the battery while you glide into the trees''. if a battery shut itself off in flight how much further would you have been able to fly if the battery was allowed to function to its destruction? i would take sizzling over a power off emergency landing any day.

Hello Bob,

There are multiple warnings from your aircraft long before you would ever have the battery disconnect because it has been drained of all energy. This is no different than you have used all of your fuel and your gas tank is empty.

But to answer your question on how much longer would you have been able to fly? It depends on your load of course, but approximately 20 seconds or less before the voltage is too low to operate your equipment, no different than a lead acid battery that is being drained too, it will eventually get so low in voltage, it will no longer operate your equipment either.

The disconnect feature is designed to protect the battery if there is an active draw, such as leaving the master on, while on the ground to protect your investment in the battery from being damaged.

Now assuming you have an electronic dependent system, you should also have a backup battery, or a backup alternator, or even both. In the event of your charging system failing so you are on battery power only, you would shed all non-essential load and should be looking for a place to land. Per your pilot operating handbook, you should reduce your load and land as soon as possible.

You should never get to the point of the battery, whatever chemistry you are using, gets to this point of depletion.

 

[rocketman1988]

OV

"...A couple folks here had an over voltage condition. Battery disconnected to protect itself and this dropped the massive capacitor from the system and proceeded to trash lots of avionics (unclear if a std battery would have saved the day or not, bus suspect it might have)..."

In a standard setup, this is very unlikely. Impossible? Obviously not but unlikely, at best.

If we look at a common regulator that has built in over voltage protection, we find that the OV protection will trip the alternator field breaker at 16 +/- 0.2 volts. This will happen in less than 40 ms.

The battery BMS will start limiting voltage at 15 voltage, and will disconnect the battery at 16 volts plus 2 seconds.

The scenario that could potentially occur is if the regulator OV trips in the 16 +0.2 volt region. This potentially could allow the BMS to see a voltage greater than 16 volts FOR MORE THAN 2 seconds, at which point the BMS would disconnect the battery.

So is this really a BMS fault or is it an unintended system fault? The BMS is doing exactly what it was designed to do. The regulator is also within its design parameters; as a system, though, a problem could develop.

It would seem that the solution would be to set the OV trip point at something lower, say 15.8 +/- 0.2 volts. This would have no effect on the charging system as it should always be below that value. It would also prevent the BMS from disconnecting the battery at 16 volts because the regulator OV protection would never let the system get to 16 volts plus 2 seconds. If the voltage did get to 16 (15.8 + 0.2) the alternator field would be tripped in less than 40 ms, so the 2 second delay condition in the BMS would never satisfied.

I have also spoken with one of the engineers at a common regulator vendor and this adjustment is possible.

For reference from the EarthX manual:

"...In the event of a charging system failure where the voltage increases to above 15.5V, the resistance to charging current increases, and above 16V the charging current is completely blocked. The time delay for this feature is 2 second to allow the aircraft alternator’s over voltage protection (crowbar circuit) to activate first. This design offers charge voltage protection greater than 40V. The discharge current (current out of battery) is unaffected in this situation. EarthX requires having automatic over-voltage protection (crowbar) for alternator type charging systems (not required for <20 Amp pad mount standby alternators)..."

 

[EarthX Lithium]

BMS does NOT disconnect battery for an Over voltage situation

actually that is only ONE of the BMS' functions, but not the one that prevents me from using them. It has the ability to disconnect the battery cells from the battery terminals for a variety of reasons that it deems relevant to it's own safety, not just to prevent damage from a deep discharge. A couple folks here had an over voltage condition. Battery disconnected to protect itself and this dropped the massive capacitor from the system and proceeded to trash lots of avionics (unclear if a std battery would have saved the day or not, bus suspect it might have). This BMS is also an intelligent electronic device and that is also a risk. Stuff like that can fail or misbehave and the result could be dropping the battery out of the system and would be no surprise that this could happen during some elec system calamity that wiped out your alternator (i.e. the time that the battery is most needed).

Will I marvel at the benefits of this technology, I want an assurance that my battery will be there when I need it most and history has shown the old school box of lead will hang in there to the bitter end without complaint, even if it is self-destructing. I have also considered the lithiums batteries without a BMS (i.e. Shorai's for ATVs), but they also carriy a risk, just a different one (i.e. the ones that the BMS protects from). At this stage of the game, I am willing to accept the weight penalty for the benefits that are most important to me. Obviously everyone approaches the balancing of risks from a different perspective.

Thank you for your post here as it brings up a great example on why aircraft charging systems have over voltage protection. Not sure the details of why this protection failed for your folks you mention here, but that is a different subject and there are other threads that cover that topic.

As far as the EarthX BMS, we do have a detailed manual about the features of the BMS and how it operates but based on your post on your understanding of how it works in an over voltage situation, we will review it again to see if we can make it clearer.

It does not disconnect in an OV situation. This is not what the BMS does.

Not all BMS's are designed the same and can and will function differently.
It's important to understand the parameters of any piece of equipment in your aircraft and what it will do in certain conditions.

EarthX has spent over a decade working with all the different experimental aircraft OEM's, such as Van's, and with the engine manufacturers to have the most robust BMS designed for aircraft charging systems and safe flight.

Please go to https://earthxbatteries.com/our-manuals/ if you are interested in the details of the BMS, it is located under the RESOURCE section.

 

[lr172]

For reference from the EarthX manual:

"...In the event of a charging system failure where the voltage increases to above 15.5V, the resistance to charging current increases, and above 16V the charging current is completely blocked. The time delay for this feature is 2 second to allow the aircraft alternator’s over voltage protection (crowbar circuit) to activate first. This design offers charge voltage protection greater than 40V. The discharge current (current out of battery) is unaffected in this situation. EarthX requires having automatic over-voltage protection (crowbar) for alternator type charging systems (not required for <20 Amp pad mount standby alternators)..."

Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding about the BMS. That changes my opinion somewhat and increases my respect level for earthX. I suppose that I need to better understand what and how the BMS behaves in order to better understand potential failure scenarios. I hope everyone understands the requiirement for OV protection, as still many folks using automotive alternators w/o OV protection.

 

[dmattmul]

actually that is only ONE of the BMS' functions, but not the one that prevents me from using them.

Since the post was concerned about the BMS taking the battery offline in a low voltage situation that is obviously what I was addressing but I'll be clearer in the future. The BMS has lots of additional features. That's how it received its certifications.

 

[bobnoffs]

ok kathy, thank you for the answer to my question.
to clarify my situation.......i have 2 earthx batteries entirely separate from each other in the circuit, 2 solenoids etc. i have an ovm that is between the alternator and the bus.it deactivates a 200 amp relay. disconnecting the alternator output, and i have a voltage warning light specifically designed so that it lights at 13.7 volts. i want to know the second my alternator fails.
my question was legit. if i could make a a change i would have a way to override the batteries decision to go off line. it's as simple as that.

 

[airguy]

my question was legit. if i could make a a change i would have a way to override the batteries decision to go off line. it's as simple as that.

I'm with you Bob, that I would happily sacrifice the battery to keep the ships electronics alive in the event it's necessary - but if my understanding is correct, at the point the BMS shuts down, there is less than a minute of power remaining in the battery. At that point, it really doesn't matter any more.

 

[dmattmul]

Confused

i want to know the second my alternator fails.
my question was legit. if i could make a a change i would have a way to override the batteries decision to go off line. it's as simple as that.

Just want to make sure I understand. You want EarthX to design a process/system that lets you ignore a “malfunction” in your electrical system that you’ve ignored for over an hour so you can override the BMS for 2 minutes to let it ruin your batteries? (You already know when your alternator fails)

 

[bobnoffs]

under almost any circumstance i want the battery to automatically protect itself. but in the circumstance [ don't debate how it got to this] i have only the battery to keep the engine running to get to a safe landing.if it quits i crash. if the red battery warning light comes on do i hold my breath for what's coming next or do i push the override button? i will take anything i can get to keep the engine running.
i understand why a fighter may have an ejection seat and a cirrus a parachute. maybe toasting a battery will get me to a safe landing.

 

[scrollF4]

Thread drifting

Folks,
The original post involved EarthX's announcement of their expanded list of FAA-approved aircraft applications for their line of lithium iron phosphate batteries, to which we extend our heartiest congratulations.

The thread has drifted, but the drifting posts' comments certainly seem important. I'd love to offer EarthX the opportunity to offer follow-up comments for a day or so, then we adjourn the thread.