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Door Fit

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paul330

Well Known Member
I'm sure these doors are going to be the death of me!

Like many others, I have changed the supplied seals for automotive style seals fitted to the frame. After much work and money spent on various size seals, I have managed to get one side to fit - hopefully the other will be easier with the experience gained. However, there is still an issue.

The door is easy to close from the inside because the lever pulls the door forward and down into the frame as you operate it. The plans were not very clear about which way the external handle faces but it seems it should go to the rear. This means that when you try and operate it, it tends to pull the door back and up out of the frame. Coupled with the shorter lever, it makes closing the door from the outside much more difficult.

So, do I have the handle the right way round? And can anyone see any problem with facing the handle forwards?
 
I put the exterior handles pointing aft when the door is closed and latched. They look good this way and my door lock is forward of the handle so they had to be this way. Get Sean's door latch kit. It draws the door into position for easy pin engagement. I rolled my own but his is really nice and well worth the $$.
 
Unfortunately, in the UK messing with the door latch mechanism will bring a shed-load of paperwork and pain down on me. I've also finished installing the mechanism and am happy with the way it closes from the inside so don't want to invest more time in changing it.

I'm not keen on turning the handles around because, as you say, they look "right" facing back. I also intend to fit a lock ahead of the handle. I think it is causing some binding on the top of the front pin because of the upward pressure as you close the door from the outside - not, it has to be said, the best design. Maybe some beveling of the pin will help.
 
LAA mod

Paul

I know the feeling about not wanting to do any more mods than necessary. I have talked to and given all the details of Sean's safety latch system as I'm putting it on my RV-10. In theory they thought it was a good system but I haven't sent any paperwork in yet.
Personally I wouldn't build my -10 without it as too many doors have been lost.

Peter
 
I am quite happy with the latch mechanism, especially as I will have the door sensors wired into my Skyview. It closes smoothly and securely from the inside, which is the important bit. The problem is that from the outside, the upward motion of the handle fights against the pins drawing the door down and in. Together with the shorter lever, it makes it difficult to close - just looking for an easy solution without spending lots of money and time rebuilding the door mechanism (oh, and dealing with more LAA mod applications!).

I also believe that the doors that have been lost have all been on the pax side. I intend to inspect that door from the outside before climbing in the pilot side.
 
paul330 said:
just looking for an easy solution without spending lots of money and time rebuilding the door mechanism (oh, and dealing with more LAA mod applications!).

I also believe that the doors that have been lost have all been on the pax side. I intend to inspect that door from the outside before climbing in the pilot side.
Click to expand...

The doors will operate more easily with continued use. I helped them along by putting a very small amount of white lithium grease in each door pin receiver. Made a big difference.

I used to think I was immune to a door opening until it nearly happened. I am more than a little OCD, always use my checklist, check the pax. door from the outside, blah, blah, blah. After checking the pax. door per usual. I walked around to my side. My wife, who is an experienced pilot and knows about the door pin issue, popped the door briefly because she was having trouble getting ahold of the safety belt. By the time I got in, she had latched it again. The rear pin did not catch, and bright sun on the annunciator light fooled me. We were at 12,000 ft. before I caught it. We made a very slow decent back to the field to relatch. Very fortunate not to have lost the door. We now have Sean's system, which I understand may not be an option for you. It was a very humbling experience for someone who thought it would never happen to him.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
Jim,
you got lucky and good to know the door does stay on under certain circumstances according to your story.

I do not close the door from the outside before getting in for just the reason you mentioned. Instead, I make sure everyone is buckled in and before I slide my seat forward and tighten belts for myself I get a good visual on the door pins as well as the door lights out before continuing with my start up check list.

The doors will operate more easily with continued use. I helped them along by putting a very small amount of white lithium grease in each door pin receiver. Made a big differenc
Click to expand...

Same for me, very big improvement with a little grease on the pins and yes, handles facing rear when closed.

You obviously have made the door seal modifications and so have I, but no other door latch modifications, not even the mandatory catch latch in the middle of the door sill. If you are the type who forgets to check, door closed along with door lights out (it's on my checklist twice) a third and forth "safety"
contraption isn't going to keep the doors on.
Save yourself the paperwork and heartburn of further modifications and resolve to check and ensure that your doors are closed before take off.
I did install the aluminum pin guides, but those would probably not be considered a modification.
 
Paul, Sounds like you don't want to go through the hassle but I'm pretty sure another 10 builder has received approval in the UK. Not 100% but thought it was in the UK.
 
Paul, I found that the closer the pin blocks are to each other, the less the door moves as the pins are extended. So that means the door blocks should be fairly close to the pin blocks in the fuselage door opening. Mine are close enough that they don't rub, but close enough that my door is rock solid during pin movement and the door never deflects out of place.
 
A couple things to try:
The angles cut on the end of the pushrod should face out and up. This position will want to pull the door down and in against the seal. The angles work better than bullets because they will allow up to a 7/16" offset of the pins to guide holes. Bullet pins are half that at best. The angles help if you have a tight seal on the door.
Also, McMaster seal has a 3/8" bulb and will only squeeze down to 3/16" inch, NO thinner, so make sure your reveal is only a 1/4 inch wide from the door inner skin to the outer lip area. This also allows for the 1/16" grip thickness.
As Charliewaffles stated the pin guides should be thick enough to "guide" the door into place. No matter what you will have one pin that drags more than the other. The pin that drags more will push the door fwd or aft. If the door is captured between the door guides it will not be able to move out of position.
Shims on the hinges can really make a difference too. Experiment with all this stuff and over time you will find the right combination.
 
Where in the UK are you?

I'm just in the test flying stages of my RV10 and I have the LAA approved modded door system with the cam in the centre of the door and the handles do 180 degrees. This way the cam starts pulling the door home before the pins start to pop out. It's easy to open/shut from inside or out ( I have the car seals)


Dave

Im at Damyns Hall (EGML) just east of London inside the M25
 
I got my cam from szswill.com about one year ago, still works fine. Owned by truckers?.came in handy...

As for the guy in Ontario with that video, it's hard to tell exactly what happened and from what perspective. The oncoming truck seems to have time to cut back behind the plow but doesn't, and he should definitely lose his license. Road conditions, load weight, equipment differences?playing monday morning quarter back is foolish and unfair. until it happens your own reaction is simply speculation. Cut the guy some slack...
 
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