Different 3x rivet guns: any to avoid?

[rfinch]

Tooling up for a -9A build. It's a Quick Build fuse and wings, and the empennage is already finished thanks to Synergy Air's 1 week intensive build/learn class. So I won't be doing a huge amount of riveting, nevertheless, I do need a rivet gun.

Avery Tools sells theirs for $150. But they state it's a clone of the Chicago Pneumatic model, which one can get on eBay used for $60. Or one can get a new USATCO gun for $105. Shipping is about $10 for each of them.

Since I won't be doing as much riveting as a Standard Build, I'm thinking I can save a little money by getting a used or cheaper new rivet gun. But I would like one that has a teasing trigger that works at least somewhat. So I seek the greater wisdom here on any guns to avoid, or any to especially seek.

Thanks--

 

[carguy614]

Sioux

Just can't say enough good stuff about the Sioux 3X gun. The drills are great too. The good news is, They can be sold very easily after you are done. Also..Get a tungsten bucking bar. The little block from Brown Tools is the one I have, and since I got one my other bars are obsolete. My advice...Buy good tools, and sell them after you are done. That can make your large tool investment much easier to swallow.

Welcome to our world!!!

Regards...Chris

 

[Jamie]

I bought this rivet gun from ATS and it works great.

You will hear many people complain about this or that rivet gun but when you talk to them they have their air supply setup completely wrong.

You want to set a good high PSI at your regulator/tank (I use 80) and then use a swivel regulator on the gun to bring down the PSI. This is especially true if you are using a small diameter hose to the gun. If you use low PSI throughout the system the air can't keep up and the gun behavior will be erratic. Set the PSI on the swivel regulator by hammering on your workbench.

I use this regulator on the gun which works great. It allows very fine adjustments. Some of the swivel regulators are simple and are simply a valve which turns the supply from closed to full open in one turn. This regulator does not do that.

 

[videobobk]

I vote with Chris on this one--while you can get by with just about any gun (I own several,) there is nothing like the Sioux. Being able to just "tease" a rivet with light taps to see if everything is right will be important many times. The Sioux is great for that. You will be able to resell, but you may not want to. I can't recall anyone on this site ever saying they bought a Sioux but wished they had saved their money. I also go along with the tungsten bar, although they were not common when I began building. Jamie is right about the swivel regulator, although I only used it for fine tuning the pressure. Your system will dictate how you do this. DO buy the small diameter hose!

Bob Kelly

 

[RScott]

I have a CP 3X and an Ingersoll Rand ACV 12, which is more like a 3 1/2X--IR doesn't use the "X" designation system. I prefer the IR gun for it's great control, I can go tap, tap, tap, about 2 or 3 beats per second or rattatattat like a machine gun. I can make it hit lightly or hard. The gun is very used and has probably driven a couple million rivets over it's life and still works well. Got it thru Ebay for $35, but you will have to pay more than that these days.

The only downside to the IR gun is that it is a little longer than the CP. When riveting some brackets to the rear spar, I had to borrow a CP because the gun was too long with the dogleg rivet set to fit between the ribs. An IR ACV 11 would have done the job just fine.

Note that most of the rivet guns sold out there are clones of CP's or IR's.

FWIW, I also have a 20 year old ATS. It's greatest value is as scrap metal. Lousy trigger control. I hope their current models are better. I would also stay away from a Taylor. I have used one briefly and it reminded me of the ATS.

You probably know this but just in case: The lower number of "X's", the more lightly the gun hits, but it also hits faster, making it hard to just tap a rivet a couple times. You can increase air pressure to make them hit harder, but they still go too fast for good control. Low X guns have shorter barrels and fit tight spaces more often. Many builders use 2X guns, but I believe most use a 3X.

 

[rv9aviator]

I have two Sioux guns. a 3 and a 2. I really like the 2 better for the smaller rivets #3's and there are a lot more of them. If I couldn't justify the cost of both then I would buy a 2X Sioux and an inexpensive 3X for the #4 rivets. That's my story and I'm stickin to it.

 

[Jeff R]

I have a Sioux 3x and like it, except that it leaks air from the piston. It sometimes pistons, but if you shake the gun or point it upwards, it will stop. I returned it to Browns and it was at least as bad when I got it back, so I am not sure if that is just how those guns are or not. It is not a big deal, but it does draw down the air compressor tank.

 

[Rick S.]

My Sioux 3x works like a champ. The trigger can be teased to provide one hit, and one hit only. I have not used any others. Jeff your blow by past the piston is not normal if the gun is fairly new. Brown has always provided great service I would give them a call and let them know. The gun should hold air when attached to the hose. I would check into getting it rebuilt/repaired. I like their drills too.

 

[az_gila]

Regulators

.....
I use this regulator on the gun which works great. It allows very fine adjustments. Some of the swivel regulators are simple and are simply a valve which turns the supply from closed to full open in one turn. This regulator does not do that.

Jamie ... are you sure this regulator is actually a regulator, not a needle valve?

The description....

Swivel section rotates a full 360 degrees. Accuratly(sic) controls airflow up to 150 psi. 1/4" npt thread. This unit combines a swivel connector and a precision air regulator all in one. The swivel section rotates a full 360? to keep the hose out of your way, while the regulator will accurately control airflow at up to 150 psi. 1/4" NPT thread size. 1lbs shipping weight.

The words talk about controlling airflow, not air pressure... There is not much room in there for a regulator mechanism.

The needle valve regulators will allow the first "hit" of your rivet gun to be a 80 psi hit... which is probably not what you want. If your gun is working correctly, it should easily handle 30 psi air, and the amount of air volume needed for each rivet should not even start to deplete a small tank compressor.

gil A

 

[Jamie]

Jamie ... are you sure this regulator is actually a regulator, not a needle valve?

Hmm...good question Gil. I believe it is a regulator because it certainly acts like one. You can turn it down until there isn't enough air to operate the gun, just enough to hear the hiss. You can sit the gun down and come back later and you get the same behavior...in other words the pressure doesn't build up in the gun.

This ATS gun and regulator worked great for me for the entire slow-build kit. A friend of mine who started his kit brought his tools over to my shop and I used his Sioux gun and I simply didn't see the value in spending that much money on a gun (although I do have a Sioux drill because it's super light).

The ATS gun's trigger teases very well.

 

[thallock]

Not all that important

I bought the Economy Rivet Gun form ATS, and have had no problems for the last 4 years, empennage, wings, and fuselage. Maybe if I had a better gun I would realize just what I was missing, but the gun I have seems to be just fine.

Tracy.

 

[RV10 4JF]

Broken Trigger

I've had an ATS 3X for a number of years. When I first got it, it worked fine but later the trigger started getting really stiff and it would not tease easily. It finally got where the trigger would not move without some force. Since, at the time, I did not do much riveting just some repairs, I did not concern myself with fixing it. Now that I am getting closer to ordering the -10 tail kit, I decided to see if it was fixable. So today I removed the trigger and actuator lever and discovered that the trigger had broken in two. The front piece came out easily but the back piece was struck in the housing. I cut a slot in a flat bar and used it to hook the broken piece and pull it out. I called ATS and order a new trigger. I will soon see if the gun will work properly and have a smooth teasing trigger. If it works, I will keep it but still plan to get a Sioux.

JF