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deep CS on HS714?

Med322

I'm New Here
This is my first post here. Been a long time lurker and I'm a first time builder. My question is if you think my countersunk hole (for an eventual 426AD4 rivet) on HS714 is too deep. I called vans and they didnt seem to concerned about it (said there are a bunch of other rivets to hold things together) but I think it may be deeper than I led them to believe.... As far as appearances and fit goes, the 702 forward spar now sits nice and flush (unlike the other holes i CS'd to a more proper depth which have a small gap when the dimple is placed in it), but will it cause other problems once I go to rivet? Thanks in advance

v30njq.jpg
 
Yes it too deep. Learn from it, and like Van said, move on. There will be plenty of other rivets to hold everything together. Until you master countersinking, go slow and keep checking your cut with a rivet. If the hole will hold a dimple, then make yourself a dimple gage by taking a three inch by half inch scrap of .032, and put a #4 dimple in one end and a #3 dimple in the other. Then use your new gauge to set into the countersink hole as you go to measure how the dimple sits. When the gauge sits flush in the hole and is tight when you try to move it side to side, the hole is correct for the dimpled skin when it is riveted together.
 
Thanks Danny! So I dont have to go order a new HS714? Tapering and bending those ends were very time consuming but obviously safety and structural integrity come first...
 
shim

This will be difficult to drive with the AN426 head so deep in the countersink. When I did this, I made a countersink "shim" to fit between the rivet head and the countersunk hole. Can't remember if I machined it on the lathe or made if from a sheet metal dimple, but it worked well.
 
Drilling rivets,.

One of the more important things to do is not only oversize your rivet but buy a US Industrial Micro countersink they are in-expensive and very easy to adjust also be careful when you drill out the old rivet so as to not make hole oval.
here in New Zealand they would req extra rivets driven about 30mm (either side ) apart to spread the load.
 
Guys, you are missing the point a bit. He's putting a dimpled part in that countersink. Judging by that, I'd say he's only a little deep and probably not enough to worry about.

Med322, I go a little deeper with countersinks that will hold dimples but I only use about half the extra depth you used. If you countersink until the dimpled part fits completely flush before riveting, you've gone too far. The countersink has a sharp edge while the dimple has a radius. When you countersink enough to let the unriveted part fit flush, you have taken enough material for the radius to fit in but now there is a gap between the countersink and dimple. It's small and won't be a problem for the occasional rivet, so if this is the only one you've done this deep, then just move on.

The actual depth you want is about halfway between rivet flush and what your picture shows. It's hard to be more exact; there are people here who will give you measurements but it varies by the thickness of the dimpled material. Experience is your best teacher. Try testing on some scrap (you can get cheap bar stock at Home Depot and Van's supplies a trim bundle for the thinner material). What you want is just enough so that - after riveting - the dimpled material sits flush to the material underneath. What should happen if you countersink a little less deeply is that the act of riveting will cause the countersink and rivet to act as dimpling dies and sharpen the dimple's edge radius to match the countersink, bringing the parts together.
 
Guys, you are missing the point a bit. He's putting a dimpled part in that countersink. Judging by that, I'd say he's only a little deep and probably not enough to worry about.

Doh! You're right...I was looking at the picture (a countersink with a rivet in it) and just the first part of his text ("My question is if you think my countersunk hole (for an eventual 426AD4 rivet)").

Sorry if I confused anyone...
 
Fill it up with fast setting JB Weld, file it smooth, redrill and recountersink it, rivet it together and never think about it again....
 
About to CS HS714

Thanks for sharing Med,

I am at the step of countersinking HS714 but have held off until I did more research. There is some great info in this thread that will help others like myself.

Hopefully we can return the favour! :)

Cheers,
Gavin
 
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