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Decisions!?

R

rpcv_viti

I'm New Here
Life got in the way of flying for me a long time ago. I have never lost the desire to fly and I am within a few years of making it happen.

Our son lives about 325 nm from us and it would be a lot nicer to fly the 3+ hours instead of driving 7.5 hours.

I have been considering the RV-12 as one of the options. Another option is an older certified plane. I am thinking that type of plane would require engine work, avionics upgrades, and general refurbishment which would bring the cost up toward the cost of a new RV. The onpgoing cost of ownership also goes to the RV.

I had this discussion with a friend who has a Cherokee 180 and he replied, "One of the real issues with aviation today is cost. Gas is only part of the equation since many plans have good fuel burns.

We also have to deal with regulations. Nobody flies a cross country since you have to thread your way through so many regulations.

Going some where is faster and cheaper on the airline. So, we all fly for fun."

Are cross countries doable in the current regulator environment? Does the new avionics help negate some of the requirements of these regulations?

Thanks.
 
I don't find the restrictions bad at all. I just flew cross country in a Cherokee 140 to Oshkosh and back (over 2600 miles). Used flght following, had no fancy avionics installed, the "system" was most friendly to the flight. It is surely "different" than it was back in the 50's an 60's, but not bad at all.
For far less than half the cost of an RV12, you can buy my Ercoupe (or someone elses, nothing needs to be done in the forseable future, sell it when your 12is done if you wish like I am doing.
 
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x-countries not doable anymore?

I have flown my RV-7A from west Texas to OSH and back twice now. 7.5 hours each way, give or take a few. VFR and never talked to anyone outside the plane except when arriving at OSH. :)
 
Hey Larry - -

Just for a story - today I flew to see a fellow RV-12 builder. It was 188 statute miles one way. Logged 3.4 hours on the meter. Had between 6 - 7 gals left when I got back. It is a light plane, and as such you have to get above the UN-smooth air if possible. I came home at 9500 feet at roughly 3 PM today, to get to nice smooth air. 'Doable', yes, but weather must be taken into account for sure. I seem to average about 25 MPG on longer flights, and that is with mogas. I feel it is less costly to fly than most GA type smaller planes. Nothing is perfect for all occasions.

John Bender
 
The Rv12 is a great airplane, and will fly you just as quickly (or faster) than a Cherokee (or similar certified aircraft) and for less fuel. Don't know what regulations you are referring to, and don't understand how the avionics would alter flight requirements, but certainly modern avionics make flying a bit simpler than in the past. Now if you are talking about flying near the Wash. DC restricted area ok , but it is doable as well. I don't see all that much change in flying today than 25 yrs ago, other than some different equipment. Cross country flying is alive and well.
Dick Seiders
 
X-Country

I have agree with all above. Flew my RV12 1200nm last week to the Midwest LSA show in Illinois roundtrip. I like to monitor the center freq just to know if I am being used as an MOA "target" but the ride was like glass.
 
Oh yeah, go ahead and brag! Took me two days each way in a Cherokee 140 :mad:
trg 854G said:
I have flown my RV-7A from west Texas to OSH and back twice now. 7.5 hours each way, give or take a few. VFR and never talked to anyone outside the plane except when arriving at OSH. :)
Click to expand...
 
Most gen av airplanes will provide decent cross-country capability. Choosing a used one requires a close look at its condition - but you certainly can find one that you can fly without a lot of refurbishing, Don's Ercoupe being a good example.

Whatever plane you get will have older avionics. They'll be fine for cross-country flying. You could always buy an iPad or portable GPS (even a used one) for additional situational knowledge. The engine and other systems will be safe and functional. There might even be an owner's group.

With the RV-12, you'll get a brand new airplane that has excellent performance, excellent operational economy with delightful handling and wonderful visibility. It's about $65,000 and a thousand hours work to get there unless you buy a used one.

Hope this helps....

Incidentally, for cost, I've found that all you need to do is go to your local FBO and price the hourly wet cost of an airplane of similar complexity to what you expect to buy 100 times that is roughly what it'll cost per year for you to own and maintain and operate your very own airplane, if you fly it 100 hours a year. And I figure it per year rather than per hour.

Dave
 
Mostly for fun.... But there are a few times I have beat the door to door times.:) I just flew to Oshkosh in 6.5 hours and out to San Francisco in about 10 hours. Not too bad. Austin is 35 min by rv6 or a 2.5 hour drive.

Regulations are not bad. A garmin 496 with XM weather makes a huge difference. I can fly around TFR's and get the conditions at my destination. I talk to everyone I can on the way. I feel safer that way.

Cost is not too bad. Fuel is about 30-percent of my costs. My big expenses are the "upgrades in the name of safety" I do.:D

Unless you are going rv12 for medical reasons, a rv6 is faster for cross country and at relatively good prices.

But the stress relief, friends and fun factors of flying are priceless.
 
I flew in flying clubs for many years. Then was in partnership on a beautiful Bonanza. Then moved, sold my half, and haven't flown in 5 years. But I had always thought about building a plane. And then the RV-12 came out.

I still have my medical - but I'm looking ahead and also at resale. One bad thing about the Bonanza was the cost of parts and maintenance. Not an issue with the 12 - I literally know every nut and bolt. And even if you buy one already built, you can take a quick course and have inspection authority.

Yes, you can buy an older conventional plane or even an RV-X. But will you be really thrilled about climbing in a 172 with an old text-screen GPS and an ADF? And an AP that doesn't work? That needs a paint job? And interior pieces? And then getting some aftermarket GPS and fooling with yoke mounts and wires and all that?

Do you like gadgets? Do you have a GPS in your car? Do you like the idea of a NEW plane with all the options? Well, I did and the RV-12 was the exact answer. The other RVs are great - but plan on an ADDITIONAL 1000+++ BUILD HOURS compared to the -12. Mine is totally done - paint and all - (except for Skyview) at 840 hours. I am a first time builder and did NOT rush! (Pictures at the link below). Yes it is slower, but you have 1000 hours in your personal time bank to make up for that!

The -12 is not cheap compared to an Ercoupe (nice little plane!) or Grumman Traveler or AA-1B, or Piper Warrior or the like. But you will have a BRAND NEW PLANE, all of the avionics fresh out of the box, state-of-the-art, and one that is fun and exciting!

And you will have the amazing satisfaction of the build. I have loved the building process. But I am also glad it is almost done!

Pics here (public link)
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.151245628228677.26907.100000297210697&l=a2b29e894a&type=1

This thread is relevant:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=68034

I HIGHLY recommend these blogs to aid in your decision - particularly any "Can I do It" decision:

http://www.schmetterlingaviation.com/ (HILARIOUS!)
http://tonytessitore.smugmug.com/RV-12Project
http://torstensrv-12.blogspot.com/
http://martysrv12.blogspot.com/
 
I think your friend is out to lunch on this one. You only have to peruse the threads on this forum to see that lots of folks use their airplanes as cross-country tools. I recently returned from a trip to Eastport Maine (1200 nm roundtrip) with my family, so now I've visited the most northern, southern, western, and eastern airports in the lower 48. All in my speedy Cessna 172 (not fashionable to admit on this forum, but I really appreciate that airplane and what it has done for me over the years). The flight to Eastport involved much less hassle and "regulation" than a similar automobile trip. The route didn't involve flying through, or even near, any controlled airspace, and even if it did, no big deal, just talk to ATC. Navigation is easy these days - you can outfit yourself with multiple GPS units that cost less than we used to pay for a decent NAV-COM. Lots of guys at my airport have airplanes but don't fly anywhere but local, which to me is like purchasing a home and then camping in the lawn. Can't say I understand it.
 
Cross country!!!

My dad and I have landed in every state on this side of the Mississippi minus New Mexico and Louisiana. ~350 hours and less than 2 years since first flight. These planes eat the distance. :cool:
 
I have been to all but 4 states, including Alaska and Hawaii. Going cross country is a joy with the new avionics and GPS. I've flown the -12 from Nebraska to SnF in one day twice! Super pilot? Certainly not, I would rather fly than drive.

I think you need new friends. ;)
 
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Even this is not entirely true, my 65 year old plane has as modern avionics as any flying today. In fact the lightweight avionics of today are sought out by the oldies for more payload.

David Paule said:
Whatever plane you get will have older avionics. They'll be fine for cross-country flying. You could always buy an iPad or portable GPS (even a used one) for additional situational knowledge. The engine and other systems will be safe and functional. There might even be an owner's group.Dave
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The last time that I flew with my friend that told me no one does cross countries, I looked at his GPS. We were following the only tracks that it showed, about a 100 mile loop.

When I start flying, I want to go places and see things. I don't want to watch seasons change over the same plot of land.
 
rpcv_viti said:
The last time that I flew with my friend that told me no one does cross countries, I looked at his GPS. We were following the only tracks that it showed, about a 100 mile loop.

When I start flying, I want to go places and see things. I don't want to watch seasons change over the same plot of land.
Click to expand...

That is definitely not typical.
I do almost nothing but cross country.
This is one of the last great freedoms available to us, and there's no where better in the world to fly than right here in the USA,... The entire USA!, the entire national airspace is free and available to any pilot ! get out there and enjoy it.

There's nothing complicated about flying VFR anywhere, sure there is the odd restricted airspace, and yes, IF you want to fly though a class B you will need to talk to ATC (no big deal at all), but you don't have to do that even, just fly around, or under/ over them.

GPS has made it basically foolproof, you can't get lost, really, this stuff is easy.
Just make sure you always have enough gas, and plan your fuel stops so you'll never have to stretch it.
Also get a handheld GPS with weather, and fly well away from any of it.

This is all incredibly easy, get out there and do it.
 
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