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Customs and Border Protection Fine

F

flynwest

Well Known Member
Lesson for the uniformed. I went to Canada for an airshow demonstration race last year. Crossing into Canada no issue. While in Canada I called CBP several times to try and get an arrival slot. No answer all weekend as the Boise Idaho office is closed who knew. On Monday I headed for home called airborne for permission to land but they said I could not land. I think I have to land at a port of entry so what do I do? Land at a place for fuel with no office or carry on. I landed at Boise taxied up to CBP office not another aircraft in site, guy comes out wands the wings asked us to come in and show ID which we did. Simple process then he says I should have called Portland as that is their main office and open on the weekend. Who knew, it's not on the recording. Any way a month later I get and email saying I can't cross the border as PIC until January 31, 2024 no problem I am not planning another trip to Canada. A few months later I get a bill for $5000.00. Two weeks later I get a bill that says if I don't pay it they will turn it over to collections. I get a hold of my Congressman he gets ahold of CBP they say tough pay the fine. [ed. Removed sentence re: politics. dr]
 
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What was the purpose of wanding the wings? Looking for metal besides aluminum? Does that work for objects inside what amounts to a Faraday cage? Trying to stay abreast of technology, so edu-ma-cate me, please.
 
Bill Boyd said:
What was the purpose of wanding the wings? Looking for metal besides aluminum? Does that work for objects inside what amounts to a Faraday cage? Trying to stay abreast of technology, so edu-ma-cate me, please.
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Elephant detector. You can tell it's working because it's not sounding off any alarms and there aren't any elephants around.

- mark
 
Please tell, did you do the EAPIS In and out? In the early days EAPIS was a black hole. Now when I do it inbound, the office at KBLI gets a notification, but I still have to call and ask for 'permission to land'. You have to use those words otherwise you have a convoluted conversation until you eventually use those words. Then you get another email notification that you have clearance to land. Not to be confused with ATC cleared to land.

Outbound you get a notification that your EAPIS has been received, but not much more than that. I believe if you try file another inbound and they did not receive an outbound you could be liable.

Aerodon
 
RV8iator said:
This is the real question now.
If you didn't, it's your fault.
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Yep. Not that I have vast experience crossing borders in my RV, but from researching and flying my AK/Canada trip last summer, you gotta do both EAPIS and a phone call when reentering the US. From the description, the OP did everything wrong…
 
Hours and days of operations are all over the place for CBP entry points. Suggest one insures they are open when needed.
 
Bill Boyd said:
What was the purpose of wanding the wings? Looking for metal besides aluminum? Does that work for objects inside what amounts to a Faraday cage? Trying to stay abreast of technology, so edu-ma-cate me, please.
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Last time I crossed the border they said it's for radiation (i.e. dirty bomb etc.) I was somewhat amused at the thought of terrorists posing as a middle-aged couple returning to their home country in a little homebuilt airplane filled with camping gear.
 
Crossed the USA/Canada border a few times both ways and I confirm EAPIS is needed BOTH ways.
For the Canada - USA leg, after filing EAPIS, a PHONE CALL to the receiving CPB office, maximum 1 hour BEFORE takeoff to confirm all is in order and to get "permission" to land, then there's the usual passport and paper checks. Yes, the scanning is for radiation.
Note that if a non-Canadian or US citizen is on board, they need a specific VISA (I-94 if I'm not mistaking) prior arriving in the USA as I discovered a few years ago.
VAFer's here that are not USA or Canadian citizen can maybe fill in more details.
When exiting USA, the "departing" EAPIS is needed, but no call is due. The Canadian Border Officers need to be advised, by phone of the usual details.
Note that they want a 2 hour minimum notice before ETA, ask me why I know...
Hope this helps future cross-border flying, avoiding these heavy fines...
 
I've flown in and out of the country a number times in small planes. CBP is staffed with some very interesting personalities. Some years ago, a friend and I were flying his Baron back to the US from the BVI and we had purchased roast beef sandwiches from a local convenience store before we left Beef Island. I ate mine enroute and he ate 1/2 of his, wrapped it back in paper and stuck it back in the little cooler we had. We get to FXE and after a relatively pleasant questioning by CBP, they asked whether we had brought fruits, vegetables, or meat back. We said no, and then I unwisely joked "unless you consider a half eaten roast beef sandwich". All of a sudden, everything went to hell. I got a lecture about how they could fine us $5K and that sandwich had to be placed in a special bag and thrown away in a special trash can. You would have thought it was radioactive. Quite the experience and it made me wonder if they had a special pychological test you had to fail to become a CBP officer.

And then after that, I flew a Cirrus to western Canada for hunting. My buddy brought his hunting dog with him and all was cool. On the trip from Saskatoon to Minot ND, I realized that we still had a bag of goose sausages that had been given to us by the owner of the lodge we stayed in. OMG, now we had to rid ourselves of these sausages, so everyone, including the dog got to work eating them. I've been ramp checked outside CBP facilities. You never know what you're gonna get. Just be very careful
 
Aerodon said:
Please tell, did you do the EAPIS In and out? In the early days EAPIS was a black hole. Now when I do it inbound, the office at KBLI gets a notification, but I still have to call and ask for 'permission to land'. You have to use those words otherwise you have a convoluted conversation until you eventually use those words. Then you get another email notification that you have clearance to land. Not to be confused with ATC cleared to land.

Outbound you get a notification that your EAPIS has been received, but not much more than that. I believe if you try file another inbound and they did not receive an outbound you could be liable.

Aerodon
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Yes we did the Eapis. Have adsb in and out. Could not call as they were closed all weekend. Called inbound hour out said I did not have permission to land. Canadian Rockies and not many options to land on Canada side. Could have landed on US side but not a border crossing airport.
 
EAA has a really good download on border crossing but after reading about eAPIS and CANPASS I'm only slightly less confused.
 
flynwest said:
Yes we did the Eapis. Have adsb in and out. Could not call as they were closed all weekend. Called inbound hour out said I did not have permission to land. Canadian Rockies and not many options to land on Canada side. Could have landed on US side but not a border crossing airport.
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I imagine this episode leaves a sour taste about you coming back to Canada anytime soon☹️?
Homeland & CBP sure don’t make the process easy.

& by the way looks like Portland is also closed weekends…

How I handle pre-notification to the CBP agent is to call late the day prior (or Friday before) to arrange arrival & ALWAYS GET THE AGENTS NAME & BADGE#. This way I could be wheels up & plan to land at the AOE just after they open at 8:00. I got grief one time doing this till I gave the agent on duty the name & badge of the person I arranged with. All this makes for some comprehensive pre planning, no spontaneous trips south for sure.
 
Ralph Inkster said:
I imagine this episode leaves a sour taste about you coming back to Canada anytime soon☹️?
Homeland & CBP sure don’t make the process easy.

& by the way looks like Portland is also closed weekends…

How I handle pre-notification to the CBP agent is to call late the day prior (or Friday before) to arrange arrival & ALWAYS GET THE AGENTS NAME & BADGE#. This way I could be wheels up & plan to land at the AOE just after they open at 8:00. I got grief one time doing this till I gave the agent on duty the name & badge of the person I arranged with. All this makes for some comprehensive pre planning, no spontaneous trips south for sure.
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What's real fun is doing this on certain islands in the Caribbean. They supposedly had/have special telephones that connect you to CBP, but I've yet to find one that was in operating condition. So your cell phone or in my case, I use the internet connection at the resort to connect to my VOIP provider in the US to call CBP for the notification. Strangely enough they always gave the initials of the agent as Alpha-Romeo. I've heard of guys in the air on their way back to the US trying to call CBP, I always wondered if that worked...sounds sketchy to me
 
riseric said:
Crossed the USA/Canada border a few times both ways and I confirm EAPIS is needed BOTH ways.
For the Canada - USA leg, after filing EAPIS, a PHONE CALL to the receiving CPB office, maximum 1 hour BEFORE takeoff to confirm all is in order and to get "permission" to land, then there's the usual passport and paper checks. Yes, the scanning is for radiation.
Note that if a non-Canadian or US citizen is on board, they need a specific VISA (I-94 if I'm not mistaking) prior arriving in the USA as I discovered a few years ago.
VAFer's here that are not USA or Canadian citizen can maybe fill in more details.
When exiting USA, the "departing" EAPIS is needed, but no call is due. The Canadian Border Officers need to be advised, by phone of the usual details.
Note that they want a 2 hour minimum notice before ETA, ask me why I know...
Hope this helps future cross-border flying, avoiding these heavy fines...
Click to expand...
Green card holders don't need an I94 either
 
flynwest said:
A few months later I get a bill for $5000.00. Two weeks later I get a bill that says if I don't pay it they will turn it over to collections. I get a hold of my Congressman he gets ahold of CBP they say tough pay the fine. [ed. Removed sentence re: politics. dr]
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Perhaps sharing this story (along with the sentence that was removed) with someone like Jesse Watters would bring awareness and attention to the discrepancy of a $5,000 fine in this scenario.
 
Mark Dickens said:
No, that's the FAA's territory. If you get ramp checked, they will ask for that
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But I don’t think the FAA can complain if you have basic med. ‘no basic med’ is a Canadian rule, so complaints/enforcement action would have to come from the Canadian authorities.
 
Amadeus said:
Perhaps sharing this story (along with the sentence that was removed) with someone like Jesse Watters would bring awareness and attention to the discrepancy of a $5,000 fine in this scenario.
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But, why? There’s no reason to bring it to the media… the OP goofed up his entry and earned that $5000 fine.

Some offices close over the weekend; that certainly does suck, but, it was on him to work around it, do the research, find an open CBP entry point, file EAPIS and call. To just ”wing it” like he did… gotta pay The Man.
 
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Mark Dickens said:
I've flown in and out of the country a number times in small planes. CBP is staffed with some very interesting personalities. Some years ago, a friend and I were flying his Baron back to the US from the BVI and we had purchased roast beef sandwiches from a local convenience store before we left Beef Island. I ate mine enroute and he ate 1/2 of his, wrapped it back in paper and stuck it back in the little cooler we had. We get to FXE and after a relatively pleasant questioning by CBP, they asked whether we had brought fruits, vegetables, or meat back. We said no, and then I unwisely joked "unless you consider a half eaten roast beef sandwich". All of a sudden, everything went to hell. I got a lecture about how they could fine us $5K and that sandwich had to be placed in a special bag and thrown away in a special trash can. You would have thought it was radioactive. Quite the experience and it made me wonder if they had a special pychological test you had to fail to become a CBP officer.

And then after that, I flew a Cirrus to western Canada for hunting. My buddy brought his hunting dog with him and all was cool. On the trip from Saskatoon to Minot ND, I realized that we still had a bag of goose sausages that had been given to us by the owner of the lodge we stayed in. OMG, now we had to rid ourselves of these sausages, so everyone, including the dog got to work eating them. I've been ramp checked outside CBP facilities. You never know what you're gonna get. Just be very careful
Click to expand...
In 1952 a German immigrant to Canada brought in a piece of sausage. He got work at a small farm for two days and when he left tossed the left-over sausage in the hog trough. Then he worked at a larger animal farm. He or the sausage had hoof and mouth disease. By the time the hoof and mouth disease was found it was epidemic. It can be spread on clothing, even, so if you visit the neighbors infected farm you bring it home to yours. The solution is to kill all animals that are infected or exposed, destroy feed, sanitize all faculties. Then you put in some livestock to see if they catch it. . If it got into wildlife it would be very hard to isolate and stop.
 
ERJDriver said:
My dad had this happen, the whole point of an EAPIS is that they know we're coming. No point in calling
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Preface - I do a LOT of border crossing in my "day job" moving high-speed aluminum/composite tubing around the world. (not airline)

Sorry Sir. That is incorrect, ya owe me a beer.

Filing eAPIS just allows electronic confirmation that your passengers are NOT flagged by CBP (DHS).

eAPIS Sample email reply.png


So you still need to call the local office at the requested arrival airport to arrange "landing rights" at the ETA +/- 15 mins per 19 CFR 122.22

(6) Permission to land. Prior to departure from the foreign port or place, the pilot of a private aircraft must receive a message from DHS approving landing within the United States, and follow any instructions contained therein prior to departure. Once DHS has approved departure, and the pilot has executed all instructionsi ssued by DHS, the aircraft is free to depart with the intent of landing at the designated U.S. port of entry.

Example

TEB Landing Rights .png


Here is some "light reading" on the newer changes that give an email confirmation in addition to my suggestion to obtain "name and badge number" of inspector with initial call request.





Here is where OP made the mistake which, if the AFD was consulted, could have save him a few shekels....

KBOI Boise Air TerminalGowen Field.jpeg


I would suggest OP to visit the BOI CBP office with hat in hand and present, like a NASA report, a future process to prevent such occurrence.
You may catch a break.


PM me if you want to know some CBP stories and solution to prevent fines... - dl
 

Attachments

  • 19 CFR 122.pdf
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  • An Update from ARINCDirect on Landing Rights Permission.pdf
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I had an EAPIS filed for a return from the Bahamas to Sanford FL and had a alternator quit while over water so I declared an emergency.
I diverted to Ft Piece and goofed up my phone call and the EAPIS. Customs had no issue.

Another trip back I found the blue phone at the FBO would not connect to Ft Pierce and my cell phone had no service in the Bahamas. Called another POE and was given a number (officers initials and I believe date). Officer at Ft Pierce got huffy for about 30 seconds.
 
Jonnyb said:
What happens if you divert from your arranged port of entry?
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I had a friend who diverted from Coos Bay on the California coast and went to Portland. Got a mouthful and not much understanding of weather related diversions. But no fine.

I almost always clear customs at the nearest airport across the border and my backup plan is to return and land, and start again. There is not much leeway on being early or late, so best make it as predictable as possible.

Aerodon
 
This post is good timing. I am going to fly to the Bahamas next week and did a dry run filling out EAPIS and docs needed (Not actually sending) My return port of entry was going to be Lakeland Fl. Tried call the POE. 5 rings and the line goes busy. Called several other CBP offices. Mostly voice mail answers or asks what extension I want. I'm calling the numbers listed on the CBP web site. Finally talked to a supervisor in Tamp and they heard possibly Lakeland was not operating, yet. Another call to a different supervisor and they suggested I call the alternate number (Which states is a fax). Called and 5 rings and then busy. Seems calling from the Bahamas is going to be an issue, I can't even reach someone when calling from the US??

When I cross from Canada to the US in a sailboat I can just pull up to any customs and declare. (Been 4 years) Very easy. Is there a better set of phone numbers besides the ones listed on the CBP web site?
 
Finally got ahold of a person at Fort Pierce (KFPR) and actually helpful. I was not aware, but he suggested calling a day ahead of time (One day before) and if I ask for a certain time that they are busy might move it up or back 30 mins at their discretion. Seems like a plan. I also found the complete phone list for airport POE's only.
 
Amadeus said:
The sentence that was removed from the original post discrepancy.
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Yeah but, who cares? It was a political jab that doesn’t mean anything. From the research I did before my trip, it appears that you gotta do both EAPIS and a phone call; northern border or southern, it matters not from what I can determine.
 
jbDC9 said:
Yeah but, who cares? It was a political jab that doesn’t mean anything. From the research I did before my trip, it appears that you gotta do both EAPIS and a phone call; northern border or southern, it matters not from what I can determine.
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Okay.
 
jbDC9 said:
But, why? There’s no reason to bring it to the media… the OP goofed up his entry and earned that $5000 fine.

Some offices close over the weekend; that certainly does suck, but, it was on him to work around it, do the research, find an open CBP entry point, file EAPIS and call. To just ”wing it” like he did… gotta pay The Man.
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The rule says you call 1 hour max. I did that.
 
My Grandma used to tell me stories about crossing the Canadian/USA border multiple times as a child and no one was there. The mounties sort of manned in a little bit during prohibition she said. In AZ i have frequently hunted on the south border in the 1990s up till 2004 or so - got bad after that. Used to be able to sit on a fence post with one foot dangling on each side. In BC - I once stopped to pick wild raspberries in the 1980s on the US side. No fence even. Went Pheasant hunting with the boys and a friend when they were young outside of Yuma in the fields right by the new fence they had just erected only to get pulled over by Border Patrol. Was pretty funny - we were walking around with shotguns. They were fine. Times they have a changed.
 
flynwest said:
The rule says you call 1 hour max. I did that.
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According to your initial post and post #14, you didn’t. You said you called on the phone, got no answer. Then you took off anyway and showed up at Boise unannounced. Radio contact an hour prior isn’t allowed as you noted on post #14. So, which is it? You had prior permission to land BOI or not? 🤷‍♂️
 
jbDC9 said:
According to your initial post and post #14, you didn’t. You said you called on the phone, got no answer. Then you took off anyway and showed up at Boise unannounced. Radio contact an hour prior isn’t allowed as you noted on post #14. So, which is it? You had prior permission to land BOI or not? 🤷‍♂️
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Take a breath. Calm down.
 
riseric said:
if a non-Canadian or US citizen is on board, they need a specific VISA (I-94 if I'm not mistaking) prior arriving in the USA as I discovered a few years ago.
VAFer's here that are not USA or Canadian citizen can maybe fill in more details.
Click to expand...
All the info is your post is correct :)

When I jumped the Pond a couple of years ago, as a non US nor Canada citizen, I had to apply for a US type R, class B1/B2 visa, authorising multiple entries. On top of that don't forget that the vehicle, airplane in this case, must have the proper CBP decal applied. And be in possession of an SFA for a homebuilt.
Another detail is that not all US port of entry have the equipment to handle foreigners, as I discovered when landing at Northway PAOR, despite having done the eAPIS and phoned. After landing there I was ordered to go to Anchorage PANC to clear customs... all good fun really ;)
 
Amadeus said:
Take a breath. Calm down.
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Nah, I'm fine and quite calm. The OP made a contradictory follow up to his previous two posts that just muddied the water and doesn't make sense. Did he or didn't he? Who knows?? And your post about "the discrepancy" doesn't help either.

So, whatever, I'm out.
 
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