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Continental IO-360 (6 cylinder) in a 7

T

Tanker

Member
I know this is a very rookie question, but since I am a rookie, I expect only a moderate amount of flaming.
Aside from the slightly higher horsepower and moderately higher weight, what keeps us from putting a Continental 6 cylinder in an RV-7? Does the CG suffer? Is the TBO lower than a Lycoming O-360? Is the 6 cylinder outrageously more expensive? Is the mount too big/wide/long for a 7? Anybody out there done this and have some feedback? I am interested to hear the 411. It is WAY too early in the build for me to be concerned with this, but still...
Reason I'm asking, I heard an airplane go by with a Continental IO-360 and it sounded much better to my ear than all the Lycoming 4 cylinders I've heard.
 
Rick - FYI no flame intended, but the time and effort required to fit a non-standard engine are no way worth if for "better engine sound".

I am about 3-4 months into the FWF portion of my project with a traditional Lycoming engine.....I can't imagine the time and effort that's required to fit a non-standard engine......it's bad enough with a standard engine.

Just my 2 cents.

Jason
 
I0 540

Rick, I put in an IO 540 in a Six (well not a Six any more) The only way that I can appreciate the 6 cyl engine noise is to ask a friend to fly by me with my plane while I am on the ground listening. I've done this and it is cool, but they are having all the fun.

I will list the changes that I have made to accomodate a 6 cyl engine.

A custom made engine mount (BIG BIG job)
Titanium gear legs
Custom made 26 gallon fuel tanks
Strengthened the wings
Lengthened the fuselage 10"
Most fuselage skins are the next thickness, except for the .040 ones
Moved the battery to the tail (long and heavy cables)
Modified the cowl to accommodate larger engine
The next size larger of Cleveland brakes for the extra weight

These are most of the changes that I made.

So how does the plane fly? Wow
Would I do this again. Absolutely.

Down side; Many, many more hours to build.
Realistically you probably could put a Contintal IO360 on a 7 airframe, but not an IO 540 unless you put a lot of lead in the tail. The only real benefit you would probably get is pilots on the ground saying to each other. "Is that a Jabaru 6 cyl" and the the other pilot would say "no that's probably Subaru 6 cyl". The best solution, that is, if engine sound is the main goal, would to record a P-51 and put a good quality speaker facing down and play it when you are flying over known airplane buffs. That would really get their attention and sound so cool.

Steve Barnes "the Builders Coach"
 
There was a mostly complete 6A (I believe) for sale on Barnstormers several years ago that had a Conti IO-360 on it, so it has been done. Unfortunately, I lost the images I downloaded in an untimely computer crash. It is out there somewhere. I'd like to follow up on it also.

Tom
 
Does that include the subwoofer?

Steve,

just getting my 5.1 in place now, what AMP do you recommend I went with a YAMAHA? I know, how experimental of me but I like to live dangerously.

I loved that suggestion. As an aside (off topic warning) I have consdiered putting a motorbike horn in the aircraft, you know that moment when your taxiing along and that guy is just talking to his mate standing next to his aircraft without even noticing that your coming....
 
GusBiz said:
As an aside (off topic warning) I have consdiered putting a motorbike horn in the aircraft, you know that moment when your taxiing along and that guy is just talking to his mate standing next to his aircraft without even noticing that your coming....
Click to expand...

More off-topic: How about a Nathan AirChime instead? :D

Back on topic: The Cont IO-360s sure are smooth running engines... when they are in running condition :rolleyes:. But they sure are heavy and take up an awful lot of real estate under the cowl too... for the amount of power they make. There are a couple of T-tail Arrows with them that seem to always be hanging around the AP/IA's shop at my airport in various states of disassembly, far too frequently, so from what I've personally seen of this engine model, they seem to need an unusual amount of constant TLC to keep them in good running condition.
 
There is a red RV6 somewhere around the Chicago area that has a Continental IO-360. Do not know any other details but it has been done.
 
Neal@F14 said:
Back on topic: The Cont IO-360s sure are smooth running engines... when they are in running condition :rolleyes:. But they sure are heavy and take up an awful lot of real estate under the cowl too... for the amount of power they make.
Click to expand...

If you want a good opinion on the TCM IO-360, talk to the guys in the Swift group. The national Swift Fly-In is held at my airport every year, and there are a bunch of TCM IO-360's on those planes.
Too heavy?? Well here are some numbers for you.

Dry Weights

TCM IO-360 294#
LYC IO-360 280-301#

The TCM IO-360 has been installed in many different aircraft, with varying degrees of success. Rear engine on a C-337...Not so good. Hawk XP, Seneca,
and others...Not too bad.

Do some research, and it may be something that you want to undertake. As some posters have previously stated, it is a very smooth running engine.
 
CONTINENTAL

All Seneca engines and some Arrow engines are turbocharged. The Swift conversions typically come from Cessna 337's. The normally aspirated Cont 360's are quite reliable. Much of the bad reputation comes from the turbocharged engines. The Seneca is a manually controlled turbo and it is relatively common to see these engines abused by overboosting and rapid throttle movement.
 
Over a thousand hours behind that engine...

but strongly suggest you build your first RV according to plans if you ever want to finish it and not spend your life tinkering. The experimental world is full of incomplete projects. The RV world has the highest percentage of completions for a reason: Van got it right!

It's a fine engine though!
 
Our RV-7 has a Lyc with a 4 into 1 exhaust and actually sounds pretty similar to the Cont. IO-360 powered Maule that we had.

Good engine, but I see no reason to complicate an RV build with one.
 
If I was to go Turbo Charged Id go with TCM - Normally asperated, I'd go Lycoming, asuming you are talking 200 HP. You are going to replace the cylinders on both at around 1000 hours. My experiance has been that if you reverse the the order of engines you end up with more trouble than you want. I don't know why except that maybe the normally asperated TCM doesn't have the power and it is pushed harder. As far as 6 cyl noise goes my opinionated vote goes to a Turbo Aztec.
 
Tanker said:
......Reason I'm asking, I heard an airplane go by with a Continental IO-360 and it sounded much better to my ear than all the Lycoming 4 cylinders I've heard.
Click to expand...

If a cool sound is your thing, go with a Subaru H6. They are relatively cheap and with the MT-7 prop perform quite well. The sound at take off turning 5000 rpm is about the closest you will get to a Merlin this side of a Merlin.
 
David-aviator said:
If a cool sound is your thing, go with a Subaru H6. They are relatively cheap and with the MT-7 prop perform quite well. The sound at take off turning 5000 rpm is about the closest you will get to a Merlin this side of a Merlin.
Click to expand...

A couple of years ago, we made wisecracks at the local airport, that we'd ban the Subi 6 for noise pollution. It was really loud on the ground roll, and not all that pleasing.

As it made its way across the sky, you might think your hearing a high horsepower fighter...................until you looked up. Kinda disappointing, as the plane is only traveling about 1/3rd as fast.... as it sounds like...

edit: P.S--- The P-51 Merlin installation, is my favorite sound.
The Harley V-twin is second

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
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My advice

is to stay away from the Conti 360. Had a turbo 360 in our Mooney 231 that had been very carefully cared for. Still, it let us down over low fog conditions in the San Joaquin Valley north of Bakersfield CA. Turned out to be an accessory case gear failure that totally incapacitated the whole engine. We survived, and are flying still. No relation to turbo or not. No excuse for accessory case gear failures in these low speed engines IMHO.

Loved my Lycoming (Mooney Bravo TSIO540) and love my current Superior Clone IO360 180HP+ in my 7A. Lycomings are tough enough to bet my and my loved ones Axx's on. Continentals not so much...:eek:
 
Best Advice

Great advice from everyone. I am WAY too new at this to bite off a custom build, especially FWF. The "downward-facing speakers and P-51 sound" suggestion gave me an idea. I'll just pump P51 sounds through my headset while I'm flying! Thanks, folks.
 
frazitl said:
is to stay away from the Conti 360. Had a turbo 360 in our Mooney 231 that had been very carefully cared for. Still, it let us down over low fog conditions in the San Joaquin Valley north of Bakersfield CA. Turned out to be an accessory case gear failure that totally incapacitated the whole engine. We survived, and are flying still. No relation to turbo or not. No excuse for accessory case gear failures in these low speed engines IMHO.

Loved my Lycoming (Mooney Bravo TSIO540) and love my current Superior Clone IO360 180HP+ in my 7A. Lycomings are tough enough to bet my and my loved ones Axx's on. Continentals not so much...:eek:
Click to expand...

Years ago I flew a turbo Arrow for a rich guy and up high it would burp every now and then. Most unsettling and never a clew what was causing it.

However the 6 cylinder 0300 in the old, old 172's is a good engine. There are a couple here at our air park and they are doing fine.
 
The paperwork I have on the various IO-360s lists different weights:

The -D, DB, H, & HB engines are listed at 327.5 lbs without accessories.

The -C, CB, G, & GB engines are listed as 331.5 lbs without accessories.

The -J, JB, K & KB engines are 327.5 lbs without accessories.

The IO-360ES as used on the Cirrus weighs 305 lbs without accessories. With installed accessories (whatever they are), it's approximately 370 lbs, so it is definitely heavier.

Anything can be done. Don't forget; there was a '10 built with a Continental IO-360.
 
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