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Comm & Audio Panel choices.

Buggsy2

Buggsy2

Well Known Member
The build is an RV-9A. I am planning the instrument panel so need to settle on a Comm radio and audio panel. From another thread I learned I do need an audio panel, to accept other audio inputs and for better performance. The other major devices will be Vertical Power's VP-200 and the Dynon Skyview (and I need to input their audio outputs to my audio system). Also would like music input from an iPhone, but if nothing else I can do that now through Bluetooth and the Lightspeed headsets.

Since this will be a VFR-only build, I would prefer to have just one installed comm (I'll have a handheld as backup). VOR Nav would be nice but they seem expensive, so I treat it as optional. Any comm will take care of needs, so what I list next are wants:

  • Accept GPS frequency inputs of destination or nearby airports (AWOS, ATIS, CTAF, Grnd, Approach)
  • Allow listening to the frequency in Standby
  • Store frequencies in non-volatile memory

Here's what I've found so far (prices approx). I'm posting with the hope someone will point out radios or features I've overlooked or share their experiences.
Radios
Garmin SL-40
  • $1850
  • Accepts GPS frequencies
  • Monitors Standby frequency
  • 8+8 memory frequencies
  • Rectangular cutout
  • Other: Weather, Emergency, Adj. dimmable display, stuck mic detection
PSEI PAR100EX
  • $2100
  • No GPS frequency input
  • No monitoring of Standby freq (only with addtl radio)
  • No memory frequencies
  • Rectangular panel cutout
  • Combined Comm+Audio Panel
  • Other: provides close interface to M760 Comm
Microair M760
  • $1044 (harness addtl)
  • No GPS frequency input
  • Monitors Standby frequency
  • 99 memory frequencies
  • Circular panel cutout
  • Other: provides close interface to SL-30

Summary: Of these 3 Comm radios, only the SL-40 has the GPS frequency input. Other radios to consider? Has anybody tried this, and does it really work?

Audio Panels
PS Engineering PMA4000
  • $775
  • Rectangular or circular panel cutout
PS Engineering PMA5000EX
  • $900
  • Rectangular cutout
  • Stereo music
Garmin GMA 240
  • $845
  • Rectangular panel cutout
  • 3 audio alert inputs
Any of these seems like they'd work. I do have a question about the audio alert outputs of the VP-200 and Dynon Skyview: having two devices with alert outputs, I need two separate alert inputs in the audio panel, right?
 
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The iCom A210 has standby monitoring, GPS frequency input, weather, memories, etc. Personally I won't buy another radio/audio panel setup that doesn't include Bluetooth input from the iPhone. Right now that's a PAR100EX (pretty sure that has bluetooth?) or the PMA8000 something.

The Bluetooth to the Lightspeed headset works brilliantly, with one notable exception: It's just for me, my passenger gets nothing.
 
So far we've not found any combo's we like without a separate intercom. That being said, we're wiring up one of the new MGL's as a single/combo right now so I'll report back as to how it works. Looks promising and the radio is a very nicely packaged and built unit (shoutout to Ranier on the nice industry standard Dsub connector and knurled metal knobs)!

The PAR is amazing with the bluetooth. Over the past week I've had two customers calling me FROM the air while troubleshooting various little issues and it's been really helpful - it's a nice unit for sure.

Cheers,
Stein
 
Buggsy2 said:
I do have a question about the audio alert outputs of the VP-200 and Dynon Skyview: having two devices with alert outputs, I need two separate alert inputs in the audio panel, right?
Click to expand...

I have an audio panel (Garmin GMA-240) with more alert inputs than I can ever use, but if I did not I would connect each alert source through a 150 to 300-ohm resistor to a single alert input.

Yeah, you really don't need an audio panel unless you're planning two COM radios, and even then, there are ways to do without. In my case, I just wanted one :)

BTW, the newer audio panels use high-density D-subminiature connectors. Building the harness requires a high-density crimping tool and can be a P.I.T.A. If you buy a custom manufactured harness, plan on spending $200-$300 more :-(
 
For VFR you don't need a full audio panel. I recommend you consider the PS Engineering PM3000 Stereo Intercom. For a considerably lesser outlay than an audio panel this device will give you 2 unswitched audio inputs for your aural alerts plus a music input. It will also save you some panel space.

This is a quality unit and comes optionally with digital record which will allow you to play back the last received radio broadcast in the event that you missed some of it....very handy.

I recommend coupling it to a an SL40....ageing, but still can't be beaten for reliability and performance at the price.
 
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for what its worth

I am planning on using the mgl v6 radio, it has 4place intercom and aux audio inputs for efis and alarms. Also has stereo input for music. For my plane, day/night vfr, I think thats all I need.

bird
 
Captain Avgas said:
For VFR you don't need a full audio panel. I recommend you consider the PS Engineering PM3000 Stereo Intercom. For a considerably lesser outlay than an audio panel this device will give you 2 unswitched audio inputs for your aural alerts plus a music input. It will also save you some panel space.

This is a quality unit and comes optionally with digital record which will allow you to play back the last received radio broadcast in the event that you missed some of it....very handy.

I recommend coupling it to a an SL40....ageing, but still can't be beaten for reliability and performance at the price.
Click to expand...

You don't need one. But with two radios, I loved having mine. It's a nice one too, with auto-squelch that works real well. PS Engineering 8000B, as I remember.
 
+1 for the MGL coms. I've been liking the V10 and the V6 has got to be better. Good intercom, standby monitoring, memory, etc. The V6 has a good enough intercom now to make an audio panel a boat anchor. Under $1100 I think.
 
Wow, thanks for the responses. A friend saw this post and also let me know about the MGL-6V. It seems to do everything I want in a single unit; I'm going to try to get pireps for it to confirm. At the price maybe I need two :eek:
 
Only "gotcha" is the mono-stereo thing. Bad things happen if you wire your system for stereo headsets but you plug in mono headsets (The V6 has stereo ouputs and stereo inputs for music). Depending on what your headset and or plugs do, you either short the two channels to each other or simply short one of them to ground.
Neither is good. Bad sound and distortion results.

If you want to use an ANR headset, please select the VOX intercom. The VOGAD intercom works best with PNR headsets.

Microphone level adjustment: Very important to get right. Easy to do: Simply adjust such that your voice level in your headsets sounds about the same loudness regardless if you are transmitting or just using the intercom. This method makes use of the automatic gain control used in the transmitters modulator and serves as a nice reference.

Rainier

SteinAir said:
So far we've not found any combo's we like without a separate intercom. That being said, we're wiring up one of the new MGL's as a single/combo right now so I'll report back as to how it works. Looks promising and the radio is a very nicely packaged and built unit (shoutout to Ranier on the nice industry standard Dsub connector and knurled metal knobs)!

The PAR is amazing with the bluetooth. Over the past week I've had two customers calling me FROM the air while troubleshooting various little issues and it's been really helpful - it's a nice unit for sure.

Cheers,
Stein
Click to expand...
 
@Rainier: I saw another post (maybe on the MGL forum) that Garmin uses a proprietary protocol to send frequency data from their GPS to a Comm radio. Do you know if anybody has successfully used the Dynon Skyview to send freq data to the V6?

As for stereo/mono, I'd like to wire for stereo but can't guarantee that a pax will not bring a mono headset. Is there wiring one could do to switch between the two? Can the pilot have stereo, the pax mono (2-place plane).

I do have a Lightspeed ANR headset, but have seen good reviews for the much lighter, non-ANR ear-plug-type headsets (Clarity Aloft, Lightspeed Mach 1). The VOGAD intercom would be selected for those?

Thanks!!
 
The VOGAD system is an active noise suppression system that works after the fact, i.e. not at headset level. If you have any headset that is ANR it has allready got noise canceling. In these cases using VOGAD as well is likely too much of a good thing resulting in "muffled" voice. Worth a try, not every headset is created equal. In my experience you would either use VOGAD with a very low threshold setting or use the VOX.

The V6 supports SL40 and SL30 protocols "receive only", i.e. it does not send any of the Garmin messages. It responds to messages setting either of the main or standby frequencies and it also supports the Garmin frequency lists (here a list of frequencies is downloaded, typically for an airport). You can then pick from that list as if it would be from the channel memory. However, you would not use this in real life.
If you have this connected to an EFIS the EFIS is your database and you would select the frequency on the EFIS, completely ignoring the radio itself.

There are limitations to the Garmin protocols: No support for 8.33Khz frequency spacing and no possibility of controlling anything interesting apart from the frequency.

For this reason the radio supports a third protocol which is in public domain. This is the MGL protocol also shared with the V10 radio. This allows full remote control including things like setting volume, squelch and all of the radios setups. This is mainly intended for the V6R but the normal V6 can also be fully remote controlled (as you would do with the new iEFIS system - using the touch screen to operate the radio - no easier, quicker and better way exists).

Placing a 10 ohm resistor in series with either headset output (on the socket for example) will completely protect the output amplifiers without further issues. In other words, wire a 10 ohm (or higher, up to 50 ohms is fine) in series with the left and another one in series with the right output. Duplicate this for the pax side as well (the V6 has a dual circuit intercom so it has two stereo outputs).

I do not know if Dynon can (or would) support the radio. That is up to them.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics

Buggsy2 said:
@Rainier: I saw another post (maybe on the MGL forum) that Garmin uses a proprietary protocol to send frequency data from their GPS to a Comm radio. Do you know if anybody has successfully used the Dynon Skyview to send freq data to the V6?

As for stereo/mono, I'd like to wire for stereo but can't guarantee that a pax will not bring a mono headset. Is there wiring one could do to switch between the two? Can the pilot have stereo, the pax mono (2-place plane).

I do have a Lightspeed ANR headset, but have seen good reviews for the much lighter, non-ANR ear-plug-type headsets (Clarity Aloft, Lightspeed Mach 1). The VOGAD intercom would be selected for those?

Thanks!!
Click to expand...
 
I am planning to install a PMA5000EX audio panel. The big selling point for me over the GMA840 is the ability to have the pilot and passenger use separate music inputs. So My wife could listen to a movie or somehing else while I listen to music. The Garmin unit doesn't have that option. They both have more inputs than most of us will ever need.
 
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Rainier Lamers said:
[The V6] responds to messages setting either of the main or standby frequencies and it also supports the Garmin frequency lists (here a list of frequencies is downloaded, typically for an airport). You can then pick from that list as if it would be from the channel memory. However, you would not use this in real life.
Click to expand...

Thanks Rainier. I don't understand this last bit: you wouldn't use this in real life. If the Garmin sends up-to-date frequencies with proper labels for the pilot to choose from, this sounds like a quite helpful feature and what I'd like .
 
Rainier Lamers said:
You can then pick from that list as if it would be from the channel memory. However, you would not use this in real life.
Click to expand...
I don't understand your statement either... My iCom 210 gets the lists from my Garmin Aera, and places them in a "GPS" memory bank that I can scroll through. I use this on *every* flight. When I start up and the GPS locates itself, I have all the frequencies for the airport i'm at, right at my fingers. One click of the dial takes me from ATIS to GND to TWR. Approaching an airport, same thing... Once i'm in range, the frequencies show up there automatically. I'd have to say that it's spoiled me for manual tuning. :p
 
I am specifically refering to using the V6/V10 with an EFIS, not with a GPS.

Frequency lists are fine but you still have to fiddle with the knobs. Much better if you can use the better interface of the EFIS direct.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
I went with the iCom simply because they have three mono inputs. That is connected to a simple stereo intercom. The combo gives me all the audio tones from the Dynon SkyView.

No need for an expesive audio panel and the iCom has proven to be a good radio.
 
Rainier Lamers said:
I am specifically refering to using the V6/V10 with an EFIS, not with a GPS.

Frequency lists are fine but you still have to fiddle with the knobs. Much better if you can use the better interface of the EFIS direct.
Click to expand...
Ah, I understand. You're referring to an EFIS that remote-controls the COM. That makes sense.

For what it's worth, with the Aera/Icom 210 setup, I can do almost the same thing... I can select frequencies on the Aera and they are put immediately into the standby on the Icom. Personally I find the interface to do it this way awkward, I find letting the GPS send a set of frequencies over and then letting me select them with a knob to be easier. That's probably quite dependent on the UI on the GPS/EFIS thought. The Aera has *no* buttons and you have to punch a few soft-keys to get to the frequencies for an airport. I do have to do this occasionally if the Aera hasn't switched waypoints quick enough for me.

I'm looking forward to seeing the iEFIS, I hope someone at the Arlington,WA fly-in this year has one on a bench in the vendor's tent so I can play with it.
 
My next to the last flight............with my PMA audio panel two comms, and XM radio was the most memorable. It was a Sunday morning flight with other aircraft to brunch. Air was as smooth as it gets, and the sky was as blue, blue . We had XM stereo cranked up on the 60's channel, (Doors, Creedence Clearwater, etc). The plane on auto-pilot; while the radios were set for Class B ATC, the airports on the way, and an air to air freqency. It was great to have two radio capibility, stereo through ANR headsets, auto-squelch, and a radio flip/flop button on the joystick. Yes, you don't have to have this for simple ships, but it's sure nice! :)

(Note: Same afternoon, different flight, the nose leg got a bit bent...
Could have used anti-splat .) :(
 
L.Adamson said:
... The plane on auto-pilot; while the radios were set for Class B ATC, the airports on the way, and an air to air freqency. It was great to have two radio capibility, stereo through ANR headsets, auto-squelch, and a radio flip/flop button on the joystick. Yes, you don't have to have this for simple ships, but it's sure nice! :)

(Note: Same afternoon, different flight, the nose leg got a bit bent...
Could have used anti-splat .) :(
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. The iCom A210 has the ability to monitor two frequencies and broadcast on one. You can wire the flip-flop to your stick, if you want. The stereo music can come in through the a good two place intercom, so for a VFR ship, there is no need for the audio panel.
 
N941WR said:
I beg to differ. The iCom A210 has the ability to monitor two frequencies and broadcast on one. You can wire the flip-flop to your stick, if you want. The stereo music can come in through the a good two place intercom, so for a VFR ship, there is no need for the audio panel.
Click to expand...

I know. My plane had the iCom210 as well as an SL-40. This way, I had up to four channels available. This is really nice, as we round a mountain here, and am immediately setup for Class B atc, the non-towered desitination airport , as well as the airport we're just flying past. I previously had a seperate intercom system. My phone is plugged into the audio panel also, and there is some muting options.

Of course, for a VFR ship, there is no need for a "Skyview" either..........unless **** hits the fan, and the need suddenly arises as it has for a few departed friends and aquaintencess of mine. Therefor, Skyview is good.......even if it just looks neat!! I want one!

BTW--- Off topic. The Skyview shows runways, doesn't it? If so, how well are the GPS derived runways, lining up with the real thing. Someone reported on another forum, that the runway was 50' off with the actual runway (Garmin 1000). Every video I've seen, has the runway line up real well. My Garmin 696 always lines up well, including intersections. I don't know if this pilot was moving in the aircraft or not. As a "modern times" GPS/SV fanatic that I am, I'd prefer the runways lining up all the time.

L.Adamson
 
"...We had XM stereo cranked up on the 60's channel, (Doors, Creedence Clearwater, etc). The plane on auto-pilot; while the radios were set for Class B ATC,...."

I had a PS panel, and it is a very fine unit. But I found the "feature" of muting the music to be useless. If, as described above, the radio was set to a busy ATC frequency, the music was constantly interrupted, to the point of "why bother?". I always ran "karioke" mode (mute off), but then I had to turn the music volume down low enough to hear ATC.

Back on topic: The Garmin 240 is another box that is sensitive to the stereo/mono issue. Instructions say to use care to not insert a mono plug, if you've wired it for stereo. In this day and age, this is inexcusable IMHO. Many very inexpensive integrated circuits come with built in short circuit protection. The PS panels have no such restrictions, you can dead short the outputs to ground without harm.
 
L.Adamson said:
...BTW--- Off topic. The Skyview shows runways, doesn't it? If so, how well are the GPS derived runways, lining up with the real thing. Someone reported on another forum, that the runway was 50' off with the actual runway (Garmin 1000). Every video I've seen, has the runway line up real well. My Garmin 696 always lines up well, including intersections. I don't know if this pilot was moving in the aircraft or not. As a "modern times" GPS/SV fanatic that I am, I'd prefer the runways lining up all the time.

L.Adamson
Click to expand...
It is right on, as far as I can tell. The runway numbers on the SkyView passed "under the plane" at the same time they did for real. Truly a great system.

Now back to our program...
 
N941WR said:
It is right on, as far as I can tell. The runway numbers on the SkyView passed "under the plane" at the same time they did for real. Truly a great system.
Click to expand...

Thanks. It's the type of info, I'm always looking for.

L.Adamson
 
WingsOnWheels said:
I am planning to install a PMA5000EX audio panel. The big selling point for me over the GMA840 is the ability to have the pilot and passenger use separate music inputs. So My wife could listen to a movie or somehing else while I listen to music. The Garmin unit doesn't have that option. They both have more inputs than most of us will ever need.
Click to expand...

Colin,

You might want to clarify with Mark on this. It is my understanding that the pilot and co-pilot can only hear music 1.

The passengers can be setup to get either music 1 or 2.

The passengers don't get a PTT switch so if you hook up your copilot seat to a passenger port, they won't be able to xmit.

At least this is how I understand the manual.....
 
My RV-6 was built with an SL-40, using the integrated intercom. It's a great radio but the built-in intercom is... shall we say.... lacking.
One of the first things I did to the plane was install a PS Engineering PM3000 stereo intercom (model# 11931A). It give you a stereo music input plus two additional unswitched audio inputs to connect other audio sources. Since it's a 4-place intercom, if you use it in a 2-place plane, then theoretically you might be able to also use the two rear seat mic inputs as additional audio inputs, keeping in mind they're designed for electret condenser mics in headsets and would need a bypass capacitor in series with the audio hot line to block the bias current that normally would power the mic element.

As to using mono headsets with the PM3000, it seems to tolerate having one side of the headset jack grounded out by a mono plug just fine, with no ill effects, as Bob Turner said earlier... the PM3000 apparently has built-in short-circuit protection. You can always mount a miniature toggle switch next to your headphone jacks and wire it up as a stereo/mono switch to disconnect the ring connection of the headphone jack for further protection. I don't bother doing that, since it seems everyone at my airport switched to stereo ANR headsets at least half a decade ago and all the RV pilots here all own Zulus.

And also as Bob alluded earlier, once you've used the karaoke mode of the PS Engineering intercoms or audio panels for your music, you'll wonder why they even bothered to put in a music-muting mode at all... the auto-muting function is IMHO basically 99% annoying, and perhaps only 1% useful. I run karaoke mode all the time and just simply turn down the volume of the music when I need to hear the radio better.

All in all, the combination of SL-40 with the PM3000 is working great and I really like it. The only thing missing is I haven't yet connected the serial data output of my GPS to the SL-40 for pushing frequency changes to the radio, since I'm unsure if my Garmin 196 even sends those data strings... I've found conflicting FAQs that some say the 196 does transmit the necessary frequency change data, and others that the 196 is excluded and you need a 296 or higher GPS unit to interface to the SL-30/SL-40 radios. One of these days when I upgrade my GPS, I'll definitely connect the serial data wire to the SL-40.
 
Another for MGL

I have the MGL V-10 on my RV-8 and find it to perform as advertised as a com radio and intercom. I have an MGL Odyssey G2 EFIS as well and find it easy and convenient to forward frequencies from the EFIS to the com radio with a few simple key strokes. The size and weight of the V-10 is impressive and it has worked flawlessly for my application.
 
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