Changing my mind to go to a 7

[Brantel]

Won't be long till I put the order in for my fuse so I must commit to the 7 or the 7A soon.

My thoughts have been changing lately about why I started out thinking that I would build a 7A.

Back when I started out, I purchased the 6 tail kit because that was before the 7 came around. Back then the 6A was cheaper than the 6.

Now the 7 is cheaper than the 7A by about a grand when you take out the steps. (you don't need steps with a 7 do you?) Not to mention that the 7 looks like it is easier to build because the mains do not bolt to the spar (pain in the tail end) and if you dont need steps, that takes their extra work out of the process.

With the nose gear proving to be less than robust, and the chance that I would like to use some of the grass strips around here, I would like to go to the 7. This coupled with the look of a 7 with a 3 blade Catto prop that is awsome.

I once thought that insurance cost was my main reason for not wanting a 7 but from what I gather, the first year seems to be where this happens and after that, the rate drops off quick as you build time. The grand saved on the kit could offset this initial higher cost.

I have no tail wheel time but my instrument instructor is a high time tail wheel instructor that is almost done with his 7 so I do not think getting transition training and tail wheel training will be a problem.

Is this good thinking or am I nuts?

 

[frankh]

Not nuts but....

I think the difference really comes down to how much you can stand to look at the thing.

At least the pros and cons for the landing qualities are not that different in my mind.

I still think for all practicality the nose gear is the way to go but the RV TD has excellent practicality due mainly to its take off perormance, so in the real world the TD is a marvelous airplane.

As to the difficulty in fitting the wing bolts...yes its a real pain but its a couple of hours of agony which in the grand schme of things is pretty minor.

Yup for me...The TD looks really hot, and the nose gear looks good enough.

 

[pierre smith]

Go fer it!

Hi Brian,
No, you're not nuts. $1000 is not much when you consider that the airplane is going to cost upwards of $50,000 (usually). Whatever floats your boat.

The landing gear on the 7A does not bolt to the spar, the 6A does. You can remove the wings on a 7A and it will stand on the wheels, not so a 6A. The two have completely different spar attach setups.

Your instructor will have to be an EAA member or a NAFI member; the phase one flight time has to be flown off his airplane; He will also have to apply for a waiver from the EAA in order to legally charge for instructing in his 7 and buy additional insurance that covers him while transition training.

The nose gear issue has been hashed out many times on here, just do a search. The nosegear's biggest problem is the pilot!
Regards,

 

[Mel]

Need steps on tail dragger?

Whether or not you need steps on a -7 depends on how short and/or how old you are. I've flown my-6 for over 13 1/2 years and the wing continually gets "higher" each year. Come to LOE and see my solution (not Van's steps).

 

[hevansrv7a]

My 7A - no steps

I don't necessarily recommend it for others, but I built my -7A without the steps. I'm 6' and able to make the step-up with my left hand on the roll bar of the TU frame. I'll need to carry some sort of compact, folding step for guests or my wife. Just a data point.

 

[Scott Will]

The landing gear absoultely bolts to the spar on the 7A. I think Brian is scared because he saw me putting the nuts on some of those bolts. The difference between the 6A and 7A is how many bolts there are on the spar. There are 8 bolts each side that go through the landing gear weldment.

I say the biggest reason to go with the 7A is insurance. If you can get a ton of tailwheel time between now and when you are ready to fly it, then go right ahead. But don't be surprised if the insurance companies want 30 - 50 hrs tailwheel (or more!)

Regarding the robustness - I saw if you primarily land on good runways with proper technique then you wont have any problems. And Vans has addressed the issue to some extent with the new nosewheel fork.

 

[Rick6a]

Won't be long till I put the order in for my fuse so I must commit to the 7 or the 7A soon........I have no tail wheel time.......Is this good thinking or am I nuts?

Well, if you are nuts you are in good company. With practically no tailwheel experience, I am now building an 8 based solely upon its look. I'll worry about transitioning when the time comes. Take a look around. I bet you know any number of tailwheel pilots. Then ask yourself...."Geez, how hard can it be?"

 

[DeltaRomeo]

Call me nuts, too! My first logged hour of tailwheel time was in Alex De Dominicis' RV-6 getting my transition training. After 10 hrs I felt ready and had my tailwheel endorsement.

The 'dirty' secret is that it's just not that difficult. Don't tell anyone, though.... .

b,
d

Well, if you are nuts you are in good company. With practically no tailwheel experience, I am now building an 8 based solely upon its look. I'll worry about transitioning when the time comes. Take a look around. I bet you know any number of tailwheel pilots. Then ask yourself...."Geez, how hard can it be?"

 

[Tandem46]

Doug,
Don't let out our "dirty little secret"!! It's hard! Very hard!! Takes a special breed! Someone brave, courageouos, skillfull, master of the skies, some one great, Chuck Yeager great!!

kidding aside, I can't believe how easy it is. I transitioned with Alex De Domonicis too, 6hrs in his RV-6, 1.5 in my RV-7. Easy, easy, easy. I highly, highly, highly recommend a -7 over a -7A for lots of reasons incluidng great looking (imho) and better rough strip compatibility, again imho.

Tobin

 

[Brantel]

Nuts

Doug,

Did you have problems with getting insurance as Scott mentioned? Do they really want 40 to 50 hours to underwrite?

Scott,

Yes, I must say seeing you struggle with those nuts made me think about it hard.

Pierre,

Just trying to save every $$ possible. These all add up in the end so every little bit helps. I saw Scott as he was bolting the landing gear weldments to the center section of the spar so it is a fact that they do mount to the spar (center section) although it is definately different from the 6A.

As far as training goes, the instructor also has access to several TW planes including a C180. Hopefully he will get the requirements together for his 7 to offer transition training after the test period. I won't be ready for a couple years so no rush.

 

[rvpilot]

Tailwheel Blues?

the first year seems to be where this happens and after that, the rate drops off quick as you build time

Don't count on your insurance rates dropping, on either model! With the limited number of underwriters these days, I think the higher rates we've seen in the last few years are here to stay. 50 hours tailwheel time does seem to be a magic number for them. Otherwise you'll find yourself needing 8 to 10 hours dual in model, that was what they told me.

The 'dirty' secret is that it's just not that difficult.

I know some folks that will beg to differ in this regard!

 

[Scott Will]

One thing I learned while building the plane is - no matter how hard a particular step was, how difficult it was to put a nut on, whatever - you EASILY forget it once it's done, and especially once it's flying. If you are concerned about money then how do you relate 30 mins of tightening a nut to a lifetime of higher cost elsewhere (e.g. tailwheel insurance, or whatever).

Don't let the ease of building a particular configuration get in your way.

 

[L.Adamson]

I highly, highly, highly recommend a -7 over a -7A for lots of reasons incluidng great looking (imho) and better rough strip compatibility, again imho.

I just STILL don't like the looks of a 6 or 7 taildragger on the ground. Just too pudgy or something, since they don't have tapering high aspect ratio wings. On the ground, an "A" model just seems to hide those low aspect ratio wings, and somehow looks more substancial because it's not squating tail low!

However, at the same time, I do think the taildraggers look better than a nosegear while airborne.

The "skinnier" tandem "8" model as a traildragger looks much better; and especially in military colors. And then those F1's and Rockets even look better!

Just another observation of perceived looks.

L.Adamson RV6A

 

[Mhead]

RV-7 vs 7A Insurance

I am a 200 hour pilot with no TD time and plan to start on a 7(A)? this spring. Does anyone in a similar situation have some numbers and requirements for insurance differences between the two? I like the looks of the 7 and fly from an airpark with a paved and grass runway. Insurance costs and resale value are making the decision more difficult.

Gary

 

[osxuser]

I just STILL don't like the looks of a 6 or 7 taildragger on the ground. Just too pudgy or something, since they don't have tapering high aspect ratio wings. On the ground, an "A" model just seems to hide those low aspect ratio wings, and somehow looks more substancial because it's not squating tail low!

However, at the same time, I do think the taildraggers look better than a nosegear while airborne.

The "skinnier" tandem "8" model as a traildragger looks much better; and especially in military colors. And then those F1's and Rockets even look better!

Just another observation of perceived looks.

L.Adamson RV6A

For me it's the opposite. The 6/7A look too Grummanish for me. the9A looks OK, but I still prefer the tailwheel in all of them. The 8A looks totally stupid if you ask me. JMHO.

 

[luigi_from_italy]

The soul of RV

I spent a lot of time thinking that I was doing the worst choice by choosing a taildragger with very little experience. Moreover when I got my tailwheel endorsement with a Piper Cub (85 Hp)before the world of RV, I was kind of worried when I was flying, trying to find the perfect day for flying (no wind at all).

What I'm trying to say is that I was not the "stick & rudder" guy and I was not comfortable with the tailwheel,: I did not feel OK with the small wheel behind me.

In Italian (maybe in English too), there is an adjective for that and it is "sereno". It refers to weather too, it means a day with no clouds, but neither cold or hot and it is referred to a status between happy and comfortable (difficult to explain maybe!). With RV you are definitely "sereno".

I chose the RV7 instead of RV7A, because I liked it, no other factor. And while I was around her in the garage, I was really worried while she was "growing" with that nose pointing upward.

After 214 hrs, encuountering a lot of wind in landing, short airtripes and many other difficult factors, I can tell you that the BEST thing about RV (tailwheel) is that they make you a GREAT pilot, comfortable and safe.

This, in my opinion, is the great thing of RV. Be honest my RV fellows, it is not (only) the pilot, in RV it is the soul of the airplane itself.

 

[ProCoach]

For me it's the opposite. The 6/7A look too Grummanish for me.... I still prefer the tailwheel in all of them. The 8A looks totally stupid if you ask me. JMHO.

Ditto. A primary reason I love my 4 is it's sleek look. The little wheel is where it's supposed to be and it's streamlined as a fish. Ramp appeal should be a primary consideration.

 

[Mel]

Luigi,
The American term for your ideal day is CAVU (ceiling and visibility unlimited).

 

[cjensen]

I am a 200 hour pilot with no TD time and plan to start on a 7(A)? this spring. Does anyone in a similar situation have some numbers and requirements for insurance differences between the two? I like the looks of the 7 and fly from an airpark with a paved and grass runway. Insurance costs and resale value are making the decision more difficult.

Gary

This discussion comes at a good time for me as well, since I'll be ordering the fuse next month. The insurance numbers I've been given are not enough to make too much of a difference. With 725TT, Com/Inst/Multi ratings, but without a TW endorsement, I've been "quoted" $1800 for the A and $2000 for the TW. I put quoted in quotes because it was not an official quote, but an estimate derived from the last several years of writing insurance for new TW RV pilots that Jim Pappas has been doing. Use Jim!! He'll find the best coverage for the best price!! Sorry, had to plug him!

I planned a TW from the start of my project, then recently began thinking that the A would be better, and more practical. I can't get past the fact that I want a TW, and last night my wife told me that I better build the TW, or I won't be happy in the end.

I now feel that even though I have virtually NO TW experience, it's just a matter of learning how to do it, and then do it well. Plus, I love a good challenge.

 

[DeltaRomeo]

Doug,
Did you have problems with getting insurance as Scott mentioned? Do they really want 40 to 50 hours to underwrite?
...snip.

Nope, none whatsoever. Just called....filled out the faxed form and wrote a check. I had 250 TT in Cessnas and 10hrs in (Alex's) RV when I got my coverage.

Of course that was about 4 years ago <g>.

b,
d

 

[Papakeith]

I now feel that even though I have virtually NO TW experience, it's just a matter of learning how to do it, and then do it well. Plus, I love a good challenge.

You're not alone Chad. I've got zero tailwheel time, Heck I'm only about 1/2 way through my ppl training and I'm building a tailwheel plane.

 

[svanarts]

Ain't nothing to a tailwheel airplane. Just different. Once you get used to it just comes naturally. Just use the rudders and you'll be fine.

 

[John C]

Cross Wind?

Think of a cross wind 10 gusting to 15, 45 to 60 degrees off runway. The 9A bobs around like a cork, a gust from the side and it just weathervanes with almost no roll component. Just touch down with a lot of rudder and start applying a little downwind brake if necessary as you slow down. Not sure I would fly in those conditions with a TD as I have no experience.

Of course I have a unique crosswind limitation on a 200 feet wide runway. Limit to 15-20 crosswind component or it can be greater than 30 knots if you land across the runway. Just think of the runway as 200 feet long, 4000 feet wide. Oh well, it was fun in gliders.

Regards, John.

 

[Mel]

John, If 10-15 kts. at 45 degrees gives you a problem on a 200' wide runway, Don't come to Texas. These are pretty standard conditions at my 1500' X 20' runway, and my taildragger -6 has no problems. You're pulling our leg, right?

 

[cjensen]

You're not alone Chad. I've got zero tailwheel time, Heck I'm only about 1/2 way through my ppl training and I'm building a tailwheel plane.

Hey PK! Nice to see you here at VAF!

 

[frankh]

Still think the nose wheel

makes most sense...

But I sear if one more smart person refers to my training wheel there's gonna be BIG trouble...

I try not to look at &TD's now...

Frank

 

[svanarts]

The RV's are so slippery in a crosswind I haven't found it to be an issue. I can't cite any numbers but I've brought my RV-4 into my home airport crabbing 45 degrees relative to the runway centerline and was able to straighten it out and land reasonably well. These are good airplanes.

 

[John C]

Just kidding sort of

John, If 10-15 kts. at 45 degrees gives you a problem on a 200' wide runway, Don't come to Texas. These are pretty standard conditions at my 1500' X 20' runway, and my taildragger -6 has no problems. You're pulling our leg, right?

Hi Mel, I learned to fly in Kansas so wind and crosswinds are no problem. I was kidding about the 200 feet wide runway. My only point was that I believe an A model is more tolerant of crosswinds that TDs. It certainly is for me, but that may not be correct for somebody with your expericene. The numbers I quoted are a little light. Regards, John.

 

[fodrv7]

Beauty.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Some pilots find the taildragger ugly whilst on the ground?
But, on the subject of tail draggers.
1/. If you can learn to fly an aircraft, you can learn to fly a tail dragger.
2/. There are other aspects of any RV that will give a low time pilot a little to think about. The high performance means early on, it is easy to get 'behind the airplane'.
3/. Most of the difficulty I have found students have when endorsing them on taildraggers is "KEEPING IT STRAIGHT". This applies to aircraft like the Tiger Moth with poor directional stability and NO BRAKES. Hence to fear mongering and myths.
4/. The RV-7 has such a ridiculously large rudder (For spin recovery) that keeping straight is not an issue.

Pete.

 

[jrsites]

Here in Kansas, our windsocks are a railroad tie on eight feet of chain.

 

[xl1200r]

Is operating a TD plane that difficult if that's what you're trained on from the start? I haven't started my PPL yet or bought a kit, but I do like the TD models (completely based on personal preference having not flown in one, let alone actually fly one). Are there flight schools that train on a TD or do you need to start with a nose gear plane for you PPL?

 

[cytoxin]

depends

"quote Is operating a TD plane that difficult if that's what you're trained on from the start? I haven't started my PPL yet or bought a kit, but I do like the TD models (completely based on personal preference having not flown in one, let alone actually fly one). Are there flight schools that train on a TD or do you need to start with a nose gear plane for you PPL? ' quote

depends on your location. td instructors are far fewer than conventional.. thats why i went nose wheeler. however i really wanted tail wheel. but either is cool with me. i just want to fly..the next one will be td

 

[N941WR]

"quote Is operating a TD plane that difficult if that's what you're trained on from the start? I haven't started my PPL yet or bought a kit, but I do like the TD models (completely based on personal preference having not flown in one, let alone actually fly one). Are there flight schools that train on a TD or do you need to start with a nose gear plane for you PPL? ' quote

depends on your location. td instructors are far fewer than conventional.. thats why i went nose wheeler. however i really wanted tail wheel. but either is cool with me. i just want to fly..the next one will be td

FYI - Conventional gear is what you call a tail dragger, not a trike.

I got my PPL in a c-152 back when they still were still selling them. 10 years later I really learned to fly in a J-3 and never looked back. Truth is, TD's are no more difficult to fly than a ND, it is just skill you have to learn and once you do, you will wonder what all the fuss was about.

If you like the looks of the -7 over a -7A, build a -7.