[email protected]
Active Member
Anyone considered making molds of the excisting wheel spats and then making them out of carbon? Are the possible weight savings worth the work?
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Carbon fibre wheel pants
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pierre smith
Well Known Member
Henke, the only problem with carbon is creating corrosion where it touches aluminum...the attach brackets.
Best,
Best,
BlackhawkSP
Well Known Member
It still can be used if the builder simply places a layer of BID (bi-directional) fiberglass between the AL and carbon fiber to insulate the two. That will stop any galvanic reaction between them.
aturner
Well Known Member
Henke, I just weighed my finished main gear pants. 3.3 lbs each, and this includes the cuff that transitions to the gear leg integrated into the fairing, as well as extra layers of glass laid around the wheel opening. Pretty light for a large chunk of glass. I would look for weight savings elsewhere.
You may want to consider the consequences....
If your carbon fiber wheel pant becomes damaged for any reason, the carbon shards are VERY sharp and will cut down your tire in short order. Ever watch a Formula 1 race? My personal opinion is the risk isn't worth the small weight savings.
Jon D.
If your carbon fiber wheel pant becomes damaged for any reason, the carbon shards are VERY sharp and will cut down your tire in short order. Ever watch a Formula 1 race? My personal opinion is the risk isn't worth the small weight savings.
Jon D.
Flyingdreamz
Member
If I where going to make molds to do this out of a new material It would not be all Carbon Fiber. I would do anything that has touch metal out of Fiberglass and Kevlar. I would then maybe use the Carbon Fiber for one or possibly 2 layers just for the look.
If your trying to do weight savings is to do re do the back half of the pant using a foam core. (you would have to test the core and the layers to get the strength you want) Maybe 2 Layers of carbon, With glass layered in for your mount, possibility a layer of Kevlar, a flexible foam core and maybe 1 more layers of Carbon and then some chopped mat fiber glass. Then vacuum bag it, by doing that you final part will be far lighter.
I would say leave the front stock because you can get a replacement if you hit something or some how damage it. I would also make it with a female or negative mold because that would give you the best finish on the outside of the pant.
If you do want to take this on, I would first figure out how many layers of glass are in the stock wheel pants. Then It would help if you had a CAD file of the pant to get a mold cut.
*Just my two cents, I am not an expert, I do not claim to be an expert but I do work for the Institute of Applied Aerospace Research at Middle Georgia State College working on/making things like this-
http://areai.aero/?page_id=160
and this-
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Im with you guys on this one. Carbon fiber is great so long as you understand the material. Wheel pants, wing tips and especially the cowling would be awsome. I recently made up a Sam James sub cowl out of standard glass (granted Im not great at this)...but...My friend Noe Ramirez took it from me and remade the same part out of carbon fiber. The combination of his skill and the material produced a part that looks awesome and feels like a big potato chip. I cant help but think that a lot of weight could be saved by using this stuff. Another friend is putting together a carbon cub at the moment and I really dig the quality and weight of his composite stuff. When you can use a lot less material to get the same strength it just becomes a question of economics. It does cost more but if you already have the molds, what is the premium?
Flyingdreamz
Member
Going from glass to carbon, same number of layers, you can have a weight savings of about 15% to 20%, and that's if you vacuum bag it. Now lets say that all the glass parts on the RV (3-9 and 14) (Cowl, fairings, wing tips, etc) weigh 40 or so pounds (estimating). Your saving 6 to 8 pounds. However on the -10, you have a lot more fiberglass and you could save maybe 20 pounds.
However, here is where you can really start to save weight. Layers of carbon fiber for the most part are stronger and more ridged then fiberglass, but when you add a core too it, like foam or nomex, you can create a very strong part that weighs very little. Then you can start layering different materials in the layup. Like for example, kevlar is often times put in to carbon layups because its very flexible and can take shock loads without shattering.
Basic rule of engineering, you want good performance, low weight, and low cost. You cant have all three. Carbon fiber is not cheap, at about 300 dollars for 10 yards, aviation grade resin, normally is in the ball park of 200 USD a gallon, then you need to put in a UV additive if your not going to paint it, thats up there as well. To get molds made all depends on the cost and how you want to do it. We do most of our molds out of layered MDF. CNC time cost a fair bit however, if you have the time an energy, you can build one your self.
Lets say you had the molds already, you could do the layups yourself with a little practice, then you need a way to bag it. Lets say you had all of that figured out, it would cost you, depending on how you laid the part up maybe 3,000 USD. However, once you have the molds, you could get 10 or so more pulls out of them (if you made them out of MDF). You could recoup your costs if you sold them.
The prices and weight savings are an estimate, it all comes down to how you choose to make the part.
A good place to start is http://www.fibreglast.com/
BlackhawkSP
Well Known Member
Also, if you made the wing tip fairings out of carbon, you could no longer put antennas in them since the carbon would block them just like metal. The fiberglass ones are transparent to RF, but not carbon fiber.
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
Another question is about copying someone elses product.......no idea if there is a copyright/patent/design protection of some sort, but somehow it does not seem like a "right" thing to do-------at least that is if you offer them for sale.
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tfarrell839
Active Member
Molds
Alan Bikle made some nice custom molds for his RV-10. We have access to them. We could talk about making some carbon-honeycomb-kevlar vaccum bagged wheelpants using those molds. Send me a PM or give me call.
Alan Bikle made some nice custom molds for his RV-10. We have access to them. We could talk about making some carbon-honeycomb-kevlar vaccum bagged wheelpants using those molds. Send me a PM or give me call.
