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Canopy weld

Simon Hitchen

Well Known Member
Just tidying up the canopy frame before riveting it to the 702 upper skin and wondered how everyone is addressing the welding under the frame. (7 tip up canopy). Should I be looking to tidy this up with a scotchbright pad or something more aggressive. Obviously not wishing to diminish the joint strenght.

Thanx
 
Which area "under the frame" are you referring to?

If it's this area...

3-15-08-004w.jpg


I used a file to remove the "bubble" of the weld to let the skin fit flush. This should not take any strength of the base part away.
 
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<<I used a file to make it flush. Won't diminish strength in any way.>>

......unless of course you file flats in the tubes.....and leave a bunch of file marks too.

In general, filing or dressing welds is not considered good aircraft practice. I'd agree with removing just the peak of the bead in this particular circumstance; weld failure is usually along the edges of the bead where it meets the base material. Cutting flush with the base material isn't wise. Cutting into and thinning the base material? Ummmm...

File marks; cracks originate at (1) surface irregularities, or (2) internal inclusions. When you dress or machine a surface near a stress concentration, obtain the finest surface finish possible.
 
Dan,

I know you can see things in pictures that lead to obvious conclusions, but in this case, I can assure you, you are incorrect when it comes to making a comment on my particular example. I was very careful to take care in filing off the bump from the weld to not get in to the base structure. What you are seeing here is a pic in the midst of clean up of the filed area where scotchbrite rubbed on the tubing.

I do agree with you on your point, however, just not in this example (pic). Even so, this is soft aluminum tubing that has two dozen holes drilled in it for rivets. If it were scratched...big deal.

Sorry, but your post rubbed me the wrong way man.:rolleyes:
 
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Chad, I didn't enjoy anything about that post, and just nearly didn't write it. My foremost feeling was alarm.

Your exact words were "I used a file to make it flush. Won't diminish strength in any way."

Consider the audience. We have 7000+ builders here. Knowledge levels vary widely. If just 1% of them (70 builders) start thinking it is OK to arbitrarily cut welds flush when they are inconveniently placed, sooner or later somebody is gonna get hurt.
 
HHmmmm ??

Dan, not an expert welder in any way but my understanding is that taking a good weld flush would not be a problem. In a good weld, the weld joint goes fully through the spliced area. In that case, you could weld two pieces of flat steel together at the ends, then grind away the surface weld on both sides and have the appearance of one flat piece of steel, without diminishing the strenght of the joint.

I may be wrong but I have always been told that a good weld is as strong as the material welded together and excess weld material does not add any real strenght to it.

Just wondering not critiqueing ??

Thanks Bill S
 
Chad, I didn't enjoy anything about that post, and just nearly didn't write it. My foremost feeling was alarm.

Your exact words were "I used a file to make it flush. Won't diminish strength in any way."

Consider the audience. We have 7000+ builders here. Knowledge levels vary widely. If just 1% of them (70 builders) start thinking it is OK to arbitrarily cut welds flush when they are inconveniently placed, sooner or later somebody is gonna get hurt.

I understand where you're coming from, and I changed my wording to better reflect what I was trying to convey.

In this particular example, a failed weld here isn't gonna cause an airplane to fall out of the sky...BUT I agree completely if we're talking about other areas like an engine mount, firewall brackets, or elevator horns...something that is structurally critical.

:cool:
 
<<In a good weld, the weld joint goes fully through the spliced area. In that case, you could weld two pieces of flat steel together at the ends, then grind away the surface weld on both sides and have the appearance of one flat piece of steel, without diminishing the strength of the joint.>>

The overly simplified explanation is that welding is more or less a cast-in-place operation. As such, grain structure within the weld is very different from that found in the worked material being joined (likely hot or cold rolled in your example). In general, cast properties are a little lower, which is why you need greater cross section in the cast area in order to equal the rolled material. Given equal area (weld ground to profile), the weld is the weak link.

A great many practical structures are designed around stiffness, not strength, and don't stress their components anywhere near maximum. Easy to see how someone with lots of practical experience in general fabrication might believe grinding welds has no downside. With aircraft structure we push closer to the limits of material strength because we're always concerned with weight...so we gotta be a bit more concerned with details.
 
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