Van's Air Force
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Canadian RV-12
- Thread starter aerolite
- Start date
Walter Klatt
Member
I wish...
I want to, but no way to easily do it in Canada yet. We don't have the LSA category, and the RV 12 is not yet 51% FAA approved for AB.
Walter
I want to, but no way to easily do it in Canada yet. We don't have the LSA category, and the RV 12 is not yet 51% FAA approved for AB.
Walter
Why not just register...
as Amateur built. The process should be no different as building any of the other RV's.
as Amateur built. The process should be no different as building any of the other RV's.
Kevin Horton
Well Known Member
The other RV models have all been officially accepted as meeting the "51%" rule. The RV-12 has not yet been shown to meet that rule, so anyone who starts a project at the moment in Canada is taking a bit of a risk that they might end up with an expensive lawn ornament. Hopefully now that the FAA has released the new interpretation of that rule, Van will organize an official assessment of compliance to the "51%" rule ASAP. In the past, Canada has accepted all the models that the FAA has determined meet the "51%" rule, and I would expect this to continue.
FlyingArcher
Well Known Member
RV-12 E-AB
From Van's web site first flights page:
It seems it wasn't that hard to get an E-AB certificate, even if VAN's hasn't already done the "official" job.
From Van's web site first flights page:
It seems it wasn't that hard to get an E-AB certificate, even if VAN's hasn't already done the "official" job.
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I did not..
realize they did not meet the 51% rule yet. I would hope it is approved as I am considering building one some day.
realize they did not meet the 51% rule yet. I would hope it is approved as I am considering building one some day.
someone listed a 12 wing for sale
it was dated Feb 09... don't know the current status.
http://www.ontariorvators.org/vaf_ow_classifieds.htm
it was dated Feb 09... don't know the current status.
http://www.ontariorvators.org/vaf_ow_classifieds.htm
The New Zealand situation.
Interesting you Canadians should bring this up. We have a similar situation in New Zealand. While LSA is recognised in New Zealand, factory built LSA is lumped in with Type Certified, so you have to have a full PPL to fly it, can?t do any of your own maintenance, need a LAME to certify it every year, Annual Review of Airworthiness, no modifications, bla bla.
Experimental LSA is sort of recognised, but simply lumped in with experimental amateur built.
We have a microlight category here which is the fastest growing segment of aviation. A microlight must be no more than 1200 lbs MAUW, 45 kts or less stall speed and no more than two seats. The microlight movement is self regulating with their own pilot and maintenance licences, a sensible medical requirement and you can do your own maintenance and modifications are less of a problem.
From what I hear our CAA are really grumpy if anyone wants to build something as a microlight that complies with all the requirements, except that like the RV12, has a designers gross weight off more than 1200 lbs.
One thing I noticed when looking at the RV12 was that Van?s requirements when purchasing were rather onerous, basically requiring purchase of the full kit (due to the ATSM certification system for LSA?s or whatever it is). This a) makes it very expensive and b) locks you into the TV screen instrument set up and engine and prop combination, and possibly even buying the 912S from Vans. All of this is not required for the New Zealand microlight rules, so the whole exercise becomes self defeating.
I understand the Canadian microlight category is not dissimilar to New Zealand?s. What we probably need is Van?s to produce a non-USA RV-12 kit that is more flexible and has a reduced gross weight to allow it into the microlight category.
Going Experimental amateur built is the other option, but under our rules set up, really undermines the value of the finished product and lessens its usefulness. One is better off choosing an RV9/7 etc. or in my case, I chose an RV6.
I?d welcome any comment, particularly about the possibility of a ?foreign version? from Vans.
Cheers,
Andrew.
Interesting you Canadians should bring this up. We have a similar situation in New Zealand. While LSA is recognised in New Zealand, factory built LSA is lumped in with Type Certified, so you have to have a full PPL to fly it, can?t do any of your own maintenance, need a LAME to certify it every year, Annual Review of Airworthiness, no modifications, bla bla.
Experimental LSA is sort of recognised, but simply lumped in with experimental amateur built.
We have a microlight category here which is the fastest growing segment of aviation. A microlight must be no more than 1200 lbs MAUW, 45 kts or less stall speed and no more than two seats. The microlight movement is self regulating with their own pilot and maintenance licences, a sensible medical requirement and you can do your own maintenance and modifications are less of a problem.
From what I hear our CAA are really grumpy if anyone wants to build something as a microlight that complies with all the requirements, except that like the RV12, has a designers gross weight off more than 1200 lbs.
One thing I noticed when looking at the RV12 was that Van?s requirements when purchasing were rather onerous, basically requiring purchase of the full kit (due to the ATSM certification system for LSA?s or whatever it is). This a) makes it very expensive and b) locks you into the TV screen instrument set up and engine and prop combination, and possibly even buying the 912S from Vans. All of this is not required for the New Zealand microlight rules, so the whole exercise becomes self defeating.
I understand the Canadian microlight category is not dissimilar to New Zealand?s. What we probably need is Van?s to produce a non-USA RV-12 kit that is more flexible and has a reduced gross weight to allow it into the microlight category.
Going Experimental amateur built is the other option, but under our rules set up, really undermines the value of the finished product and lessens its usefulness. One is better off choosing an RV9/7 etc. or in my case, I chose an RV6.
I?d welcome any comment, particularly about the possibility of a ?foreign version? from Vans.
Cheers,
Andrew.
Microlight RV-12
As for Van's offering a "Foreign Version" with a gross weight of 1200 lbs, you could ask them. If you sent a letter signed by members of a local aviation group, then Van's might modify the RV-12 to make it comply with your laws. Van's could remove the outside steps, make the gas tank slightly smaller, replace the back window with aluminum, reduce the baggage capacity, or whatever, and call it a microlight with a gross weight of 1200 pounds.
Joe
Van's does NOT require that you purchase the whole complete kit from them UNLESS you want them to also give you form 8130-15 which is required to register the RV-12 as an E-LSA in the United States. Since a person living in another country does not need that piece of paper (Form 8130-15), then they are free to purchase whatever portion of the RV-12 they desire, whether a small part or a sub kit or the complete aircraft. I can not speak for Van's, but it has been my experience that they will be happy to sell any sub kit with no obligation to purchase the complete aircraft from them.
As for Van's offering a "Foreign Version" with a gross weight of 1200 lbs, you could ask them. If you sent a letter signed by members of a local aviation group, then Van's might modify the RV-12 to make it comply with your laws. Van's could remove the outside steps, make the gas tank slightly smaller, replace the back window with aluminum, reduce the baggage capacity, or whatever, and call it a microlight with a gross weight of 1200 pounds.
Joe
Tom Martin
Well Known Member
I can see no reason that you could not apply for a 51% inspection from the MDRA inspector and build the RV12 as and amateur built in Canada. The F1 rocket does not have official 51% status so each project has to have the MDRA go through the 51% inspection. It is not difficult process, (just additional fees), and unless the RV12 is a very advanced quick build I do not see why it would not pass.
Walter Klatt
Member
Actually, with an empty weight of 750 pounds, the RV 12 would fit nicely into the AULA (Advanced Ultralight) category in Canada with a reduced gross of 1232 pounds. The useful load and stall speed requirements would be easily met. It could then be flown with the lesser UL Permit in Canada.
It means Vans would have to go through the paper qualification process, which is quite a bit simpler than the US LSA one. Several other LSA kit manufacturers have done just that, and offer their kits as AULA's in Canada, and LSA's in the US.
I have not heard that Vans wants to do that, though. Personally, my preference is still the AB category with the 51% FAA approval.
Walter
