build time

[Blaine Asay]

Has anyone ever solicited data on actual build time (hours worked, not calendar time) on the 7? I know what Van's advertises, and I've checked as many web sites as I could find. Some total it up and others don't. Seems like this would be a good idea for one of the polls. If it's been done, I apologize, but I couldn't find it. I have a friend that says it can't be done in under 2000 hours, QB or no QB. I've seen several builders that say it took much less than that. I know that it will vary a lot depending on panel choices, self-painting etc. However, it would be very useful to have a representative sample from the community.

B. Asay

 

[Build9A]

1200 hrs.

My 9A QB was completed in 1200 hours over 3 years. That's hours working on the airframe, and firewall forward. Everything except the panel which was done by an avionics shop. I also had mine painted. I didn't log time reading plans and studying other websites, and re-reading plans. I honestly think that would have added another 800 hours. It seems that people log hours differently, some clock in and out of their shop, others estimate after completing a component, others log reading plans along with building hours. I summed up my hands on hours after each work session.

I think a poll would be interesting, but not sure if each would be apples to apples. take care. Jack

 

[MrNomad]

1316 and counting

Starting in June of 2006, we have 1316 hours working almost every day (4-6 hours). I estimate we have one month left till we're ready for airworthiness.

RV9A QB, QB wings, we assembled the Superior engine in 5 days, made our own panel, and we did all of the wiring (panel too).

What's left? Riveting wings & skin over panel, paint (yes, we're gonna do that too).

It's good to be a TYPE A.

Did I log every phone call, website review, reading, and discussion?

Not a chance. I would guess we will do the next 9A in half the time.

Barry

 

[alpinelakespilot2000]

Really depends on whether or not you've built before and how much you know.

I try to log only actual building hours... i.e. not any of the "thinking" time which would probably make my total double the number it is. If I built again I could cut down very significantly on the "think" time, and maybe 20% on the build time, but probably not a whole lot more on the latter. In other words, I could get it done in far less calendar time, but probably not much in actual hours of building.

That said, I'm up to about 1500 hours so far (again, actual building time) and I'm getting close to finishing the canopy which means that the airframe is basically done, except for the cowling. Yep, that's just airframe. I don't even want to know how many more hours for wiring and firewall forward, and painting, but I'd predict another 1000 hours since I know very little about those subjects. FWIW, I got to QB stage with about 1000 hours (less 170 hours for the empennage=830 hours).

Hope this helps with your decision (?)

 

[dan]

Really depends on whether or not you've built before and how much you know.

It also depends on how close to "stock" you stick. My RV-7 took 2060 hours to build. Things that added quite a bit of build time:

- at the time there was no "kit" for AFP injection on a horizontal sump
- extended instrument panel
- access panels in the front deck
- glassing/filling all the gaps in the emp tips
- left-hand throttle quadrant
- custom filtered air box w/ram air inlet (that was a biggie)
- etc.

All this stuff added considerable build time for me as a first time builder. Had I just stuck to the program I bet I would have been done around 1700 hours. Don't get me wrong, I have NO REGRETS! With such a huge investment you gotta do it your way.

Oh, my RV-7 emp wasn't fully match-drilled either. Elevator skins had no holes, for example. I had to jig all tail surfaces. I probably would have saved several hours if my emp kit looked like the contemporary emp kits do.

Ask around and you'll find that folks are building QB RV-7s in 1400 hours. Jack Lockamy comes to mind...I don't even think he spent that much time.

My hangarmate built a slow build RV-7A in a year and a half. I don't know precisely how many hours he put into it, but I'm pretty sure it was well shy of 2000.

 

[Captain Avgas]

Has anyone ever solicited data on actual build time (hours worked, not calendar time) on the 7? I know what Van's advertises, and I've checked as many web sites as I could find. Some total it up and others don't. B. Asay

Dear Blaine, build hours are absolutely meaningless unless you are in a position to judge the quality of the workmanship in each instance.

The bottom line is that quality construction takes time.

The fact that there is a broad spectrum of build times reported simply means that there are significant differences in the build quality.

 

[MrNomad]

Time is a function of experience

Dear Blaine, build hours are absolutely meaningless unless you are in a position to judge the quality of the workmanship in each instance.

The bottom line is that quality construction takes time.

The fact that there is a broad spectrum of build times reported simply means that there are significant differences in the build quality.

Bob,

Sure, if you want quality, one must take his time but the level of familiarity with the tools that are unique to airplane building, the medium (aluminum), and the differences amongst the assembly elements (AN bolts and rivets) that go into a build increases as you go along.

Speaking for myself, I have built countless cars, two houses, and can, generally speaking, fix anything except a broken heart.

But when it came to an air box, I spent 3 weeks before I got it right. On the next airplane the same air box would be done in 3 days and would be of superior quality.

My advise to someone starting out is to work alongside someone who has done it before and listen to the tips and suggestions. W/o Gil Alexander and other experts nearby, I doubt we'd be this far along after 1300 hours. Work on scrap and practice bucking and riveting before working on the plane. Spend endless hours on the internet watching how others did it before wasting time and $$.

The learning curve is no longer a vertical line on plane # 2. Therefore, the time is markedly decreased.

Barry

 

[Jim P]

And I suspect it doesn't matter what the first airplane is. If it's some sort of RV, all the better, but I found just having building experience of any type helps tremendously. My first was wood/ fabric and the experience gained from that 7 year project really improves the mental game for the 2nd. Sure, there's different construction skills to be learned, but the mind games a project plays are all the same! Right now, I'm figuring my -7 SB is going to finish in around 1500 hours.

Jim

 

[Ironflight]

Previous experience really comes in a lot of flavors, and really does help! I had never "built" an airplane before I did my -8 (in 1040 hours of total "contact time"), but I was re-building J-3 Cubs when I was a kid, and maintained my own Grumman for a couple decades (under the supervision of my friendly A&P/IA). Firewall Forward on the -8 is virtually identical to a Grumman - at least on mine - and it took me maybe a week to have it done (except for the #$%@^ baffles of course...). Everyone takes more time on the tasks they have to learn from scratch, and breezes through those things that are old hat.

In the end, no one else can really predict how long it will take YOU to build YOUR plane - there are just too many variables!

Paul

 

[uk_figs]

Build hours

I have tried to keep track of actual time spent building in my garage and there is a link to the hours page on my blog http://ukfigs.blogspot.com which will give just one perspective. This log does not count many many hours on other builders and manufacturers web sites and this forum researching the various options at each phase. I have saved some time with QB tanks and a QB fuselage, and I think my choice of glass cockpit with pre built harnesses will also save some time.
So far I am at 3 years elapsed time and estimate approx 18 months to finish based on my expected build time availability (I travel a lot for work).

I think one of the big efficiency factors for me at least is when I can devote a whole day to the project and concentrate rather than 1 hour here or there. Another factor to consider is having all the parts available when you need them so you can get on with it rather than waiting for UPS deliveries. It impacts cash flow but helps the build process, for example I bought all the avionics and electronics up front so I can do the mechanical and wiring without interruption.
As has been stated it is a very individual endevour that takes individual circumstances and choices so there is not one answer.

 

[ditch]

I'm not keeping track of a single hour. It takes what It takes. I'll keep track of the years though. I actually have no interest in knowing how long it takes me, in terms of hours. I've made a mental note that the empenage took me 5 weeks, who knows how many hours, and when the wings are done, hopefully I can say I got them done over the winter. Thats good enough for me. My goal is to have it flying and paid for in 6-7 years.

 

[Chappyd]

Me too!

I'm with Ditch on this one...........When it's done I'll have a plane that took a lot of time to build I started keeping track of the hours in the beginning, but that didn't last very long, about 40 or so hours. I have a pad of lined paper in the shop, and every time I leave the shop I record the date and what I did. I'm burnin thru that pad. I also refuse to keep track of the $ spent. I have a rough idea, and that's scary enough. I know I'll probably need another $50K to finish, and that's with all my kits and tools paid for. I save all I can, but when it's time for the engine/prop, I'll probably break down and visit the bank. $30K for an engine and prop, $20K for radios and instruments.

Where there's a will there's a way.

 

[Jim Sinkbeil]

I took 3500+ on my 7A (3 years) & 4000+ in 18 months on our 10. Two of us on the 10, so that is a combined time. We are old, slow, & kinda picky. Lots of study & phone time not included. The old saw " Everthing costs more, weighs more, & takes longer than you thot " is a truism.
That being said, for us, WELL worth the effort !!
Really love how my 7 flys, the 10 is great....... for a trash hauler.
Cheers, Jim

 

[Blaine Asay]

My observation is that more hours doesn't necessarily mean higher quality, so I must disagree with Capt. Avgas. It is true that quality takes time, but I believe that the other comments have pretty much hit on the answer to the reasons for the variability. From what I've been able to determine, one can expect from 1400 hours on up for a QB, and 2000 and up for non QB. I still think that a survey would be of interest, if it were possible to capture a large-enough sample.

 

[N941WR]

2,700 hours

My slow build -9 took more than 2,700 hours over 4 years & 2 months. That is without paint and I'm still working on the fairings.

This was my first build and I did change some things and made & fixed a lot of mistakes.

The 2,700 hours does not include the time people helped me. Thus if Nora and I both spent four hours riveting, I counted it as four hours not eight.

There were things that I re-did because I wasn't happy with the way they came out. It also includes time I spent working on the engine, designing the electrical system, and installing a non-standard Lycoming O-290-D2.

Just remember, if you want to build fast, just follow the manual and don't add any options or "improvements".

One other thing, tip-up tail draggers, like mine, are supposed to be easier to build than "A" sliders.

 

[pmccoy]

Hours to date...

Hours to date: 1048
Horizontal Stabilizer - 82.75
Vertical Stabilizer - 22
Rudder - 47
Elevators - 73
Wing Spar & Ribs - 71
Wing Top Skin - 101.25
Wing Top Skin & Aileron - 112
Wing Flaps & Final Assembly - 85
Fuselage Bulkheads - 107.5
Fuselage Tail Skin - 169.5
Fuselage Side Skins & Canoe - 106
Fuselage Part 4 - 29

My log time for a slow build 9A. I log hours in the garage working. This would include scratching my head, as I read plans. I am expecting to go well over 2000 hours in the end.

 

[szicree]

The single biggest factor in determining the time it takes is whether you've done it before. Anybody who's built a set of slow build wings will back me up on this -- the second one takes a fraction of the time. As far as how long I've been working, I gave up counting around 1400 hours. In hindsight, I feel that logging the hours was a total waste of energy. If I ever build again, I'll simply hang a calendar in the shop and write what I did on the day I did it. Wait, did I say calendar? Make that calendars.

 

[Captain Avgas]

My observation is that more hours doesn't necessarily mean higher quality, so I must disagree with Capt. Avgas.

OK, I apologise for my mistake. The FASTER you build your RV the better quality it will be.

But the funny thing is that whenever I chat to an RV builder who has actually won a major award for his plane I discover, without exception, that it has taken him a huge number of hours to complete. Like I said...funny about that.

 

[MNRVFlyer]

Time

Hi,

I would have to come down on the side of experience being the bigger factor. I'm fortunate to have one of the most experienced RV builders to answer any questions I have. I can honestly say that there have been several times when I could not figure out exactly what the plans were telling me and he cleared it up in a minute. For me (not everyone) indecision is the time killer. I think/hope I will have a lower total time with very good build quality combined.

 

[TX7A]

Related question for Dan....

"...glassing/filling all the gaps in the emp tips"

slightly o-t, but I saw that you used deck cloth on the HS tip seams.

How's that holding-up? Any cracks develop?

Thanks,

 

[dan]

"...glassing/filling all the gaps in the emp tips"

slightly o-t, but I saw that you used deck cloth on the HS tip seams.

How's that holding-up? Any cracks develop?

Thanks,

The only spot where the seam is evident is where I sanded through the glass on the bottom of the right elevator tip. Other than that it has held up pretty darn well. But don't ask me...my plane isn't painted.

Next time if I knew I wasn't going to paint, I'd think long and hard about doing cosmetic BS like that.