bringing a -4 back to life

[cjmccorkle]

Howdy everyone! I’m excited to say that I’m the proud new owner of a -4, which I hope will be my forever airplane. I’m committed to doing everything the right way, as this plane needs a LOT of work. I have a lot of questions and would really appreciate any advice from the more experienced folks.

I’ve already put in a ton of work since this photo was taken, and now I’m at a crossroads where I need to make some big decisions. I’m considering options for paint, an engine overhaul, and avionics—everything is still on the drawing board. Right now, I’m thinking about sending the O-320-A2B engine in for an overhaul and upgrading it to 160HP. I’m also leaning towards a Catto 72" prop as a good all-around choice, but I’m wondering if I might regret not going with a constant speed propeller instead.

I’d love to hear your thoughts!

N144PJ
Kit #450
San Antonio, TX

 

[Norman CYYJ]

I would suggest flying the RV4 for quite a number of hours before you make any changes. What you are thinking at the moment that you want may change considerably after you have spent some time in your new to you plane.

 

[Mel]

Howdy everyone! I’m excited to say that I’m the proud new owner of a -4, which I hope will be my forever airplane. I’m committed to doing everything the right way, as this plane needs a lot of care and attention. I have a lot of questions and would really appreciate any advice from the more experienced folks.

I’ve already put in a ton of work since this photo was taken, and now I’m at a crossroads where I need to make some big decisions. I’m considering options for paint, an engine overhaul, and avionics—everything is still on the drawing board. Right now, I’m thinking about sending the O-320-A2B engine in for an overhaul and upgrading it to 160HP. I’m also leaning towards a Catto 72" prop as a good all-around choice, but I’m wondering if I might regret not going with a constant speed propeller instead.

I’d love to hear your thoughts!

N144PJ
Kit #450
San Antonio, TX

You'll probably get a lot of disagreement but weight is everything on a -4. And performance is such that the weight of a c/s prop outweighs it's advantages.

IMO, 160hp with a Catto prop is an ideal combination.

 

[rolivi]

Keep in mind that changing the engine and prop will put you back in phase 1 for a while, in addition to the time to get the OH done (check any shop lead times). I wouldn't go after the powerplant until I've used up all the horsies. (don't overhaul until it's making metal and not holding compression)

Mine is a 160hp with a 3-blade Catto.

 

[cjmccorkle]

I suppose i should have added that the engine was last overhauled in 1994. approx 450 hours on it. last conditional was 2005. currently the wings are off and most of the paint has been stripped.

 

[Roadjunkie1]

Agree with all posts so far. SuzieQ: O-320-D1A with a Bernie Warnkie wooden prop with a harmonic balancer. Love it!

 

[Roadjunkie1]

I suppose i should have added that the engine was last overhauled in 1994. approx 450 hours on it. last conditional was 2005. currently the wings are off and most of the paint has been stripped.

Looks MUCH better already!!!

A friend of mine found a Cessna 150 in an abandoned hangar that hadn't run for 15 years. It was buried up to the axels in mud. Cleaned everything up; new tires, brakes, etc. Compression checked: still good. Flew it home (50 miles). It has been flying since with mostly cosmetic improvements and nothing done to the engine except sparkplugs and air filter. Albeit, this is in Colorado where there is not much humidity.

Find some RV folks in your area, especially those familiar with RV-4s, and have them look it over before you start to put her back together. She looked pretty sad in that first picture. I would imagine there has been a lot to do and will be in the future.

 

[blaplante]

What are your use plans? Day VFR? Cross country? Night? IFR?
That'll definitely change the avionics needs.

 

[Roadjunkie1]

Paint? We don't need no stinking PAINT!........... I blew VeriPrime on SuzieQ thinking of painting her in the near future. Her first flight was 1997.....she still looks about the same! Is it easier to paint with the wings and tail feathers off? Yes. But that will also delay you getting her into the AIR!!

I would put her back together and do some AVIATING!! Agreed that what you have in mind now, having not flown her much, will change as you put some hours on her. My panel has been gently upgraded but mostly is the same as it was at first flight. Dynon D10A and a uAvionix AV-30 now grace the panel. That might be all I do as I REALLY like my panel!

 

[YellerDaisy]

What are your use plans? Day VFR? Cross country? Night? IFR?

Brian is exactly right - what are your plans/intended mission?

 

[cjmccorkle]

Brian is exactly right - what are your plans/intended mission?

id like to be able to do some long cross countries, however its primary mission will be local shenanigans. I do intend to set it up for some "reasonable" IFR. I will be putting autopilot and most likely a GTN650.

 

[rvbuilder2002]

id like to be able to do some long cross countries, however its primary mission will be local shenanigans. I do intend to set it up for some "reasonable" IFR. I will be putting autopilot and most likely a GTN650.

Long cross countries can easily be done with just a portable GPS and no auto pilot.
Give serious consideration to Mel’s comments above if you want good performance for shenanigans and have much baggage payload available for your cross countries.

 

[cjmccorkle]

Thank you all for your input. Right now my primary concern is getting her painted and airworthy. avionics will come last.

I pulled fuel tanks today. There are so many leaks I really feel like the left tank is a lost cause. I am currently weighing my options to either have them repaired or replace them completely with new ones. . Ill likely go with whatever has the lowest lead time. I'm currently waiting on a call back from fairings-etc since they seem to be reasonably priced on new tanks. While I realize I could probably tackle that job myself, I really would rather have an expert do the work. I do NOT want to chase fuel leaks once its back together. I still have plenty to do while waiting on tanks. will be stripping wings and replacing wingtips in the next few days. I got a new set of tips from Knots2U with the built in landing lights. I have yet to even look at nav/strobes.

 

[Zero4Zulu]

I removed my entire rear panels and sent my tanks to a chemical stripping outfit in Hubbard OR. They came back clean, nearly all the old pro seal gone. Re-sealed all the corners and rivets carefully and reinstalled the rear panels. Four years and no leaks. Just another option for you to consider. Time consuming but worked out well for me.

Removing the rear panels wasn’t difficult once I came up with a process. Heated a chunk of steel and held it against the outside of the tank to soften the old pro seal. Use a blade to work it loose. 20 minutes each to remove the panels, plus the time to drill the rivets of course.

 

[cjmccorkle]

I removed my entire rear panels and sent my tanks to a chemical stripping outfit in Hubbard OR. They came back clean, nearly all the old pro seal gone. Re-sealed all the corners and rivets carefully and reinstalled the rear panels. Four years and no leaks. Just another option for you to consider. Time consuming but worked out well for me.

Removing the rear panels wasn’t difficult once I came up with a process. Heated a chunk of steel and held it against the outside of the tank to soften the old pro seal. Use a blade to work it loose. 20 minutes each to remove the panels, plus the time to drill the rivets of course.

Would you happen to have the name/contact info of that outfit? The guy I just talked to said he doesn’t mess with sloshed tanks.

 

[Zero4Zulu]

Would you happen to have the name/contact info of that outfit? The guy I just talked to said he doesn’t mess with sloshed tanks.

I sent a private message to you.

 

[Dan 57]

Hi, you might be interested in @ShawnR's many posts on his ongoing (AFAIK) -4 restoration...
Interesting stuff indeed

 

[71459]

id like to be able to do some long cross countries, however its primary mission will be local shenanigans. I do intend to set it up for some "reasonable" IFR. I will be putting autopilot and most likely a GTN650.

If you want to do IFR, I'd suggest a nice F-33A Bonanza. Seriously though, these little airplanes were never meant for IFR or even much serious cross country flying. Van designed these for eyes-outside, stick-and-rudder, fun flying on nice summer afternoons.

 

[rockyfatcat]

You'll probably get a lot of disagreement but weight is everything on a -4. And performance is such that the weight of a c/s prop outweighs it's advantages.

IMO, 160hp with a Catto prop is an ideal combination.

I looked real hard at Catto props and was all set to buy one at Oshkosh. Catto didn’t show up at Oshkosh as an exhibitor. They were there as a visitor. I ended up talking with the office extensively. Bottom line is they are more focused on the CUB style aircraft than anything for an RV.

I shopped props with all the vendors at Oshkosh and am currently awaiting delivery on a 3 bladed ground adjustable DUC.

 

[cjmccorkle]

I looked real hard at Catto props and was all set to buy one at Oshkosh. Catto didn’t show up at Oshkosh as an exhibitor. They were there as a visitor. I ended up talking with the office extensively. Bottom line is they are more focused on the CUB style aircraft than anything for an RV.

I shopped props with all the vendors at Oshkosh and am currently awaiting delivery on a 3 bladed ground adjustable DUC.

I made plans to go to osh and shop this year but life threw a curveball so i didnt get to go. I really want the 3 blade catto with nickel protection since I operate off of a grass runway, but if there are other options that folks vouch for im all ears.

 

[blaplante]

I looked real hard at Catto props and was all set to buy one at Oshkosh. Catto didn’t show up at Oshkosh as an exhibitor. They were there as a visitor. I ended up talking with the office extensively. Bottom line is they are more focused on the CUB style aircraft than anything for an RV.
...

Maybe things have changed, but I'm very happy with my Catto on my 6A. The website still lists recommended props for the RV-3, -4, -6, -7, -8, -9 and for various engines on those airframes.

My prop (second hand originally on a -4) was a bit under pitched and I sent it up for them to repitch. Reasonable price and turn-around.

 

[blaplante]

Tanks... I don't know, but. RV-4's weren't pre-punched... so the mounting hole locations from one RV-4 tank to another may not line up. So a new tank from someone (or even a used tank from someone) may not mate up. Someone with more info will chime in I'm sure.

 

[blaplante]

Avionics: Well it'll be a challenge to get some IFR capability (with some sort of backup!) stuffed into an RV-4. Yes you can go get a do-all screen that'll control remote radios, transponder, autopilot, etc. And what's the plan when the do-all screen craps out and you are above a 2000' layer? Keep that in mind! Please!

 

[rvbuilder2002]

Tanks... I don't know, but. RV-4's weren't pre-punched... so the mounting hole locations from one RV-4 tank to another may not line up. So a new tank from someone (or even a used tank from someone) may not mate up. Someone with more info will chime in I'm sure.

Replacing a tank on an RV-4 or RV-6 is a lot more involved than just building a new tank and putting it on the wing.
The location of every screw hole was hand measured and drilled when the wing/tank was originally built.
Making new holes in a new tank so that they match the original locations in the wing spar can be done, but it is a lot of work, along with all of the custom trimming involved in making the skin butt joints fit well.
When this has been done in the past, we always recommended that builders use a slightly oversized skin to build the tank and then trim it to fit the wing.
It is probably less work to reseal the original tanks, though I agree disassembling them is not fun

 

[cjmccorkle]

Replacing a tank on an RV-4 or RV-6 is a lot more involved than just building a new tank and putting it on the wing.
The location of every screw hole was hand measured and drilled when the wing/tank was originally built.
Making new holes in a new tank so that they match the original locations in the wing spar can be done, but it is a lot of work, along with all of the custom trimming involved in making the skin butt joints fit well.
When this has been done in the past, we always recommended that builders use a slightly oversized skin to build the tank and then trim it to fit the wing.
It is probably less work to reseal the original tanks, though I agree disassembling them is not fun

I had a long conversation with a guy that builds tanks earlier, he warned me of the work it will take. I guess im gonna bring the tanks home and see what I can do. I am entertaining the idea of taking them to a chem dip shop and have them remove everything so I can reseal it. The whole thing is getting repainted so I dont care about losing the paint.

 

[jrs14855]

Keep in mind that changing the engine and prop will put you back in phase 1 for a while, in addition to the time to get the OH done (check any shop lead times). I wouldn't go after the powerplant until I've used up all the horsies. (don't overhaul until it's making metal and not holding compression)

Mine is a 160hp with a 3-blade Catto.

I'm surprised this has not been challenged. My ops specs dated 2015 allow any piston engine and and fixed pitch prop with not additional phase one. Very early ops specs(mid 60's) do not address these issues. I had three different engines and at least six different props on my EAB, certificated in 1964.

 

[jrs14855]

All of the better wood and wood composite props are running long lead times with one year being typical. Whirlwind ground adjustable is minimal lead time and price is comparable to fixed pitch.

 

[jrs14855]

Not meant for long cross country?? I guess around the world and over the south pole doesn't count?? Children of the magenta line.
NY to Reno in a Cassutt. Charts and a compass that didn't work. Starting in 1931 Steve Wittman was all over the country with his racers. No brakes and a tail skid on the two early ones.
Sectional Charts were just becoming available in 1931. A lot was still road maps.