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Bear spray?

kevinh

kevinh

Well Known Member
Hi ya'll,

So I'm flying my RV to hike in an area where they recommend carrying bear spray. Does anyone know anything about the regulation and/or safety of carrying pepper spray?

The most I can find are some TSA websites directed at passengers, but I haven't been able to find the FAA reg that would govern this.

Likewise, I'm not sure of the safety of carrying a can of pressurized pepper spray in my small airplane. I'll try calling a pepper spray manufacturer tomorrow.

Kevin
 
We carry it all the time around here. We had a bear and 3 cubs in our yard last night and I can hear them again tonight. They love the sunflowers. I have never had one leak or misfire. Of course, we are on the ground! In a plane, you have to worry about pressure. To be safe, it would have to be in a sealed container that has the ability to expand in case it leaked. Pressure from going over 12k or so could be an issue too.

If I needed to transport bear spray, I would wrap it in a towel, put it in a series of 2-3 ziplock type bags, then wrap it in duct tape. The bear spray cans are larger than the little pepper spray people carry for protection. Having used bear spray, it is not something you want to have happen in a plane - but it needs to get on you to be real bad. Just spraying it in the area of a bear will just **** him off. We don't go many places on the ranch without a firearm. I don't think you would have any trouble bringing it with you. Maybe you could tape it to one of the wheel fairings if you were worried.

Remember you only have to run faster than the slowest person with you!
 
I've now had one bear encounter to many while elk hunting here in Colorado. I met another hunter this past weekend who carries his .40 glock with him while bow hunting. He said he has had several encounters where he had to discharge in front of an advancing bear (elk on the ground, bear wanting dinner). Glenwood, since you live with them and have experience, will the concussion alone scare a bear off? How about a momma with a cub who is charging? We inadvertantly ended up between a momma and her cub last season. The cub thought we were very interesting and checked me out for a while...thank god mom was wandering the other way. Scared me half to death since I'm only armed with a bow. He eventually got bored and ran after mom. After this past weekend's encounter, I'm strapping the glock on from now on....just wondering if concussion will do it or not. I have no idea if a .40 round will **** off a bear or do it in. Hope I never have to find out. If I can just scare them off with a pop or two, I would far rather that than hurt one unless she is determined to do me harm. Heading back up tomorrow.
 
Always somebody who thinks a gun is the only/best way to solve a bear encounter...

Why not use something that has been specifically designed for such a thing? I.e., *bear spray*.

You could have had your bear spray out and ready in case momma got annoyed at you, just as easily as a weapon.
 
Grew up in the Colorado Rockies on a small horse ranch and spent every season hunting and packing. It was consensus bear spray was ok if you didn't know how to handle or were afraid of a firearm. I remember several stories of spray can failures and ineffective range. No way I'd bet my life on a spray can of anything.

The .40 is plenty provided shot placement is good and you the bear isn't already on top of you (as is always the case). I've seen bears drop on the spot from a well placed arrow yet run 300 yards when shot with a .300 magnum.

Maybe the bears in California run away if you throw dandelions and sing kumbaya but not the Colorado bears looking at that elk you just shot or if you stand between cub and momma.

Making plenty of noise while hiking is the best deterent. Most of the bad encounters occur when hikers surprise the bear.
 
Oh boy

Seems to me the gun did its job perfectly with no harm to the bear, but in any case this isn't a post about that. I can't help you Kevin but I am interested to know what you find out. I wouldn't do if it was me. Its not worth the remote chance of it going off in the cockpit. The stuff isn't cheap either.

Randy
8A
 
Warning

I also heard it's best to make a lot of noise so as not to startle a bear. Many hikers are taught to wear a little silver bell around their neck to alert the bear(s) of your approach.

It is also helpful to identify when bears are in your area. Bear scat can be identified by its size and shape and usually because there is a little silver bell on top.
:D
 
Always someone who has never had an encounter with a bear that thinks bear spray is the answer and a weapon is not necessary. The only problem with that thinking is the bear has to get within 10'-15' from you for the bear spray to be effective. I know it says 30' on the can - that is the distance you can **** them off at. A bear intent on getting to you will not be detered by pepper spray.

In "real life" bear encounters in almost all cases just yelling at the bear or throwing a rock at it, the bear will take off running. If that doesn't work, a couple rounds fired will send it on it's way. I have never had a bear stick around after firing a shot. The cops around here have special rounds for their shotguns that shoot a beanbag, but mostly it is the sound that gets them on the move. BUT, I have never had an encounter with a grizzly. If you are going in an area where there could be grizzly bears and you do not have a weapon that could stop the bear if needed, then you deserve what ever the outcome is. Don't let an anti gun bias cost you your life. There is a reason for the joke about grizzly bear poop containing whistles and smelling like pepper.
 
Some bears like a little extra "pepper" with their meal........................

Some bears like a little extra "pepper" with their meal........................

Don't count on it working as it doesn't always work with a bear who has his mind made up

A few years ago I lost an employee to a bear here in North Eastern British Colombia. If you can, you had better have a backup plan.
 
Vlad said:
Rockwood can you get those bears back mid Oct believe it or not I've never seen bear in the wild. Not your average Siberian stereotype :D
Click to expand...

I will see what I can do. Just leaving the lid off the bear proof garbage cans usually works!

Back on the topic, I spoke with 2 friends who carry bear spray in their planes. Both put it in a plastic bag and then in a small lunchbox sized cooler that locks when you close the lid. Both are Kitfox pilots. Maybe checking with the women at Mountain Canyon Flying in McCall. They would be a good source.http://www.mountaincanyonflying.com/
 
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Just to be clear...my comment about people choosing guns to solve problems *first* was in reference to the hunter mentioned here:

"I met another hunter this past weekend who carries his .40 glock with him while bow hunting. He said he has had several encounters where he had to discharge in front of an advancing bear"

not any posters on this forum.

This thread is no longer about flight safety, though, and isn't really answering the OP's question any more, soooo....
 
Flying Scotsman said:
This thread is no longer about flight safety, though, and isn't really answering the OP's question any more, soooo....
Click to expand...

TO get back to that....there is a frequent mis-understanding that it is dangerous to carry pressurized containers in aircraft because they will rupture or "go off" when the pressure decreases with altitude. Well, you have to look at the pressure in the can in the first place - if it is several atmospheres already, then decreasing the outside pressure by half an atmosphere (FL180) really isn't going to make much difference. The pressure differential is small, and cans are usually over-designed. Does anyone fear taking their can of spray to the top of a high peak (14,000') in Colorado?

Now, the consequences of it going off in the cockpit are probably worse than if your shaving cream can ruptures, so maybe you contain it differently - but pressurized containers can usually sustain being taken to a vacuum without problems.

Paul
 
Flying Scotsman said:
Always somebody who thinks a gun is the only/best way to solve a bear encounter...

Why not use something that has been specifically designed for such a thing? I.e., *bear spray*.

You could have had your bear spray out and ready in case momma got annoyed at you, just as easily as a weapon.
Click to expand...

lol, always somebody who thinks an autoloader is always going to be ready to fire. When you absolutely need it to go bang, use a revolver :)

(wheel gun guy, obviously)

btw, just a joke ok, not trying to start a flame war. my carry piece is a wheel gun and my IHMSA gun that I knock down targets 200 yards away with iron sights is a wheel gun, but my IDPA gun is an auto loader.
 
Flying Scotsman said:
Just to be clear...my comment about people choosing guns to solve problems *first* was in reference to the hunter mentioned here:

"I met another hunter this past weekend who carries his .40 glock with him while bow hunting. He said he has had several encounters where he had to discharge in front of an advancing bear"

not any posters on this forum.

This thread is no longer about flight safety, though, and isn't really answering the OP's question any more, soooo....
Click to expand...

Exactly, and the gun solved the problem without hurting the bear. I have had a bear encounter where I fired not once, but three times near a sow at less than 5'. This particular bear had 3 cubs up a tree that I accidentally came upon in dense cover and couldn't retreat before its too late. Had I been hiking, I would have been making noise and probably would have scared them off but I was hunting, whole different game. In any case, all parties involved lived, no harm, not a scratch. Nobody said the gun solves every problem, but it sure does work nice sometimes.

Back to the point, unless I am mistaken Kevin lives in Canada where they aren't allowed to carry handguns. And carrying a shotgun while hiking sucks, getting it into a RV 8 would be a pain if possible at all. Your best line of defense is making noise so the bears aren't surprised and have time to avoid you. Also, if you are traveling with a group of people, that helps alot. And in Kevins case, I would buy, borrow, steal some bear spray when you got to your destination.

See what you started Kevin.
 
As stated, autoloaders are for sissies, although they have been extensively tested on NYC bystanders the results were not satisfactory. The Taurus Raging Bull with 12" barrel in the snorty 454 Casull is what you need. Only weighs about nine pounds, will drive tent stakes, and can double as a walking staff or ice axe. A lighter approach would be stashing a leaky sardine can in someone else's pack.
P.S. You can always UPS your bear sparay.
 
aerhed said:
As stated, autoloaders are for sissies, although they have been extensively tested on NYC bystanders the results were not satisfactory. The Taurus Raging Bull with 12" barrel in the snorty 454 Casull is what you need. Only weighs about nine pounds, will drive tent stakes, and can double as a walking staff or ice axe. A lighter approach would be stashing a leaky sardine can in someone else's pack.
P.S. You can always UPS your bear sparay.
Click to expand...

very funny
 
As a retired Marine, I can only say that the military left wheel guns behind when the Indians stopped fighting back. Also, at 11k feet and up....a 9lb wheel gun feels like you're carrying a lycoming on your hip.

I am happy to hear that the concussion alone will scare bears off. I really don't want to hurt one, but that hunter I was chatting with is a professional elk guide and he said he wouldn't walk the mountains of Colorado without his. My wife, for reasons I cant fathom, wants me to return after each trip...so I'll protect myself a bit more than I have been.
 
This is all very entertaining, but now I keep thinking about a gun rack and a winch for my emeraude. Since its the only bird I've got left, I might as well get it looking good.
 
walkman said:
l my carry piece is a wheel gun and my IHMSA gun that I knock down targets 200 yards away with iron sights is a wheel gun, but my IDPA gun is an auto loader.
Click to expand...

The heck with pepper spray....I want to take Martin with me ;)
 
Personal Experience with Bear Spray

I've been carrying bear spray on solo extended hikes in the Sierra for 25 years (or when it first became available 20+ years ago). A couple data points:

1. I've had it to Mt. Whitney - 14,000+ ft. with no problems.
2. In a life is harder when you're stupid moment, I tested my container without noticing the wind in my face. Trust me - even a little bit of that stuff will incapacitate you for several minutes.
3. No problem carrying it in a plane - just make sure the spray is fully contained in the event of accidental discharge. If it goes off in your cockpit, you better have immediate access to a 2-axis autopilot and be high enough to avoid the rocks.
 
Bear Bells

Bears become agressive when they are startled. Hikers wear bear bells on their packs so that they are always "broadcasting" a sound. Also, learn to recognize when bear are active in the area by looking for bear scat on the trails - it's the scat with the bells in it... :D
 
Simple

Just stay in shape!

You dont have to out-run the Bear. You only have to outrun the other hiker.
 
I'm sure an aerosol can will be okay. However, I did once have a sealed potato chip bag pop as I climbed. It was loud enough that everyone on board simultaneously said "What was that?!".
 
My son and I flew the RV to Yellowstone MT for some fly fishing after OSH.
Our guide gave me the bear spray because he knew I couldn't out run
my son (or him) :eek:
 
Thank you to those who posted great answers to my question. As for the gun stuff, I say, "um, that was interesting..." :D

As for the "you just have to be faster than the person you are hiking with." Great idea, but I'll have to tell my wife to hike in heels.

I'll post pics from the trip after we get back...
 
We flew into W Yellowstone this summer and spent 2 weeks in the backcountry hiking and backpacking. We bought bear spray and faithfully carried it for 80 miles...then donated it to a college student doing his internship at the airport. Happy to have it....happy to pay it forward.
 
There are two kinds of people who see fresh grizzly tracks in the wild:

1) Those who are armed.
2) Those who wish they were.

That's it.

That said, most bears people encounter are black bears, not grizzlies, and pepper spray is probably fine. I know, not really related to the OP, but I couldn't resist either.

Tim
 
Have fun Kevin, you will have a great time. Take bunches of pictures. I am interested in where you are going.
 
nasty stuff....

kevinh said:
Hi ya'll,

I'm not sure of the safety of carrying a can of pressurized pepper spray in my small airplane.
Kevin
Click to expand...

I have had to deal with people who got sprayed (not a pretty sight) and to ventilate buildings which were involved..... I am not sure of the likelyhood of having one discharge in the airplane (probably unlikely) but if it ever did you would be pretty much incapacitated (any police officers out there who have tried it ? police here make every officer get a shot so they know what they are doing to the person on the business end of the can)....with a capital I...:eek:
 
Huntin grizz

The first thing one should do with his 44mag is to file the front sight off so that when that grizz takes the gun and shoves it down your throat, you won't lose your front teeth,,,
 
Duct tape?

I once chartered a C-180 for some geology work in Alaska and the standard procedure was to duct tape the bear spray to a wing strut. The pilot had actually left some tape wound around the strut for this purpose. A bit more awkward to do with an RV but maybe not impossible?

These small pressurized containers certainly can leak; I had one of the small Halon extinguishers leak all its contents and its similar in design to the bear spray canister. Someone walking by my plane asked me why it was "hissing". Secondary containment for bear spray might work but not sure I'd take the chance.
 
I would not take bear spray anywhere in the cockpit of my plane, and know a lot of bush pilots who feel the same. A few years ago there was a helicopter went down in BC and all 4 on board were killed because a can inadvertently went off and incapacitated the pilot. If I were wanting to carry the stuff in an RV, I would MAYBE put it in the wing in a bracket mounted in the wing by the outboardmost inspection plate. That said, I agree that any aerosol can is unlikely to explode below 18000 feet. The "container box" someone mentioned might be another option for carrying the stuff, but I certainly would want to know that it works.

My opinion only, FWIW.

Greg
 
Will it or won't it discharge? I can't speak intelligently one way or the other. However, the consequences of an inadvertent discharge are pretty high.

One thought. If you really want the spray on hand at the destination, couldn't you just buy it when you get there? If not you could purchase it and ship it to yourself at the destination. I am under the assumption that the stuff can be shipped by ground freight to a drop location and picked up on your arrival.

Just a little outside the box thinking.
 
I wish we had bears in Australia. They'd distract the poisonous snakes and spiders.

- mark
 
Bear Spray

No problem transporting bear spray into the back country, just stow it in one of the floats.:D
 
Bear Spray

I live in Alaska and have encountered a bear spray canister discharging in an airplane...you don't want to be in the plane when it happens, trust me on this. That said if you desire to carry one the best way is external to the fuselage. Taping on a strut works great but that has limitations with an RV. I would seriously recommend installing some kind of access hatch in say a wing tip for carrying the canister. RV'ers are pretty resourceful and this sounds like and interesting project actually. I won't bother with discussing other bear repellent options as each can make their own choice in that area.
 
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