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Basic Med... a crock?

blaplante

blaplante

Well Known Member
I'm having a heck of a time trying to get a Basic Med exam.
Just went to a place that does DOT exams, etc. and after starting it they changed their mind and said no can do.

The AME's don't want to do it, only class 1, 2, 3.

Regrettably my PCP doesn't do any type of sports / DOT exams. Weird I know.

Basic Med had a lot of promise, but it isn't working out for me.

Anyone have a SoCal suggestion? Riverside, Orange, or San Diego county area?
 
My AME in SoCal doesn't do BasicMed either. Let me know who you find. Thanks
 
blaplante said:
I'm having a heck of a time trying to get a Basic Med exam.
Just went to a place that does DOT exams, etc. and after starting it they changed their mind and said no can do.

The AME's don't want to do it, only class 1, 2, 3.

Regrettably my PCP doesn't do any type of sports / DOT exams. Weird I know.

Basic Med had a lot of promise, but it isn't working out for me.

Anyone have a SoCal suggestion? Riverside, Orange, or San Diego county area?
Click to expand...
It’s no crock. Having to find a cooperative doctor is a small price to pay for the benefits of BasicMed. If you ever experience any of the Kafka-esque decisions and horrendous delays that the FAA medical process is capable of, you’ll definitely appreciate BasicMed. Good luck!
 
isosceles said:
I've used https://www.afcurgentcare.com/ in NorCal for a BasicMed, they have several locations in SoCal, try calling them. Also, AOPA has a directory of BasicMed doctors, have you checked it?
Click to expand...
It's an idea.

Carbon Health looked promising too, and I think it was the bad luck of the draw of who saw me. Once they get into their mind that they CAN'T do it, it's impossible to argue with them. Same issue at another place yesterday. Hoping not to make another appointment, drive over there, get started and then have them flake on me.
 
The AOPA website has (had?) a document you could print to give to the MD that explains what Basic Med is, and what their roll in the process is.

My PCP was reluctant to do the exam, but when he reviewed the AOPA stuff he was OK with things.

Biggie for him was he thought it was an FAA exam and he was turning it down on that mistaken assumption.
 
Been doing basic med since 2018. My old PCP had a son that was a pilot. No problem for him. Two years later, he retired and the doc that took over also had no issue doing a basic med for me. Yes I know I only need to see a doctor every 4 years and do the online course every two years. Since I was not happy with the doc that took over, I went looking for a new PCP. I used the Aetna Medicare website to find one that sounded good to me. At the first visit, he was happy with my condition and ASKED me if I wanted to schedule a Basic Med and Medicare wellness physical in two months. I said yes. I filled out and printed the Basic Med form before going in, he completed my exam and signed the Basic Med form. I took the online course early this month and listed his info.

Since I use to be in SoCAL before retirement, I still have friends there. I sent a TEXT message to one of my good friends that also is using Basic Med and asked who he used. He used Doctor Ric Garrison in Antelope Valley. That may be a longer drive that you want but at least it is a lead.
 
PCP in Florida & NC had no problem doing it for me.
If you’re having issues in SoCal, you may want to contact Doctors who do CDL medicals. They are used to the doing physicals under government regulations.
 
i just went to my regular doc for a basic med -- wasn't an issue -- I'd say if you can still pass a regular third class, just go to a regular AME, honestly probably simpler.
 
roadrunner20 said:
PCP in Florida & NC had no problem doing it for me.
If you’re having issues in SoCal, you may want to contact Doctors who do CDL medicals. They are used to the doing physicals under government regulations.
Click to expand...
1) glad it worked out for you.
2) precisely what I did... that led to my frustration this morning.

To others...
I have an appointment with an AME that will do basic med, near San Diego. Over two weeks out. We'll see. Maybe I'll find something sooner & closer.

Yeah, calling it a 'crock' is harsh. But after no success with 5 different providers, my sample set says finding someone who will do it is the exception.
Furthermore, if I go with the Class 3 Option, I can get in next week! So, in my sample set, it is easier to get a class 3 appointment.
 
kingmattj said:
i just went to my regular doc for a basic med -- wasn't an issue -- I'd say if you can still pass a regular third class, just go to a regular AME, honestly probably simpler.
Click to expand...
The biggest advantage of BasicMed over 3rd class is that if you fail a 3rd class, you're in for a big, loooong, expensive "treat" with the FAA.

If you don't pass BasicMed, you and your Doctor simply work out a solution and you're good-to-go!
 
blaplante said:
I'm having a heck of a time trying to get a Basic Med exam.
Just went to a place that does DOT exams, etc. and after starting it they changed their mind and said no can do.

The AME's don't want to do it, only class 1, 2, 3.

Regrettably my PCP doesn't do any type of sports / DOT exams. Weird I know.

Basic Med had a lot of promise, but it isn't working out for me.

Anyone have a SoCal suggestion? Riverside, Orange, or San Diego county area?
Click to expand...
my regular doc filled it out for me
 
blaplante said:
Furthermore, if I go with the Class 3 Option, I can get in next week! So, in my sample set, it is easier to get a class 3 appointment.
Click to expand...
It may be easier to get a class 3 appointment where you live (not so where I live, I’ve had zero problems getting docs to sign BasicMed forms). But that will seem like a very minor advantage if the process goes south.

I’m on a soapbox about this because a friend went through a total nightmare over his medical for zero legitimate reasons, and found himself at the mercy of a bureaucratic process that does not function well at all. I’m sure others around here can tell similar tales.
 
Unless I missed it, I haven't heard anyone mention the BIGGEST problem with BasicMed...and that is you need a "real" doctor....an MD...to do it! It cannot be done by a Physician's Assistant or a Licensed FNP, etc..........Who apparently are good enough to prescribe meds and order all sorts of tests and do other exams...but not good enough for BasicMed. There are Doctor shortages everywhere....almost everyone in my area goes to a PA/FNP for routine stuff, and if they find anything (or you are about dead) they send you to an MD. Much easier to find an AME in my experience. YMMV.
 
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bkc3921 said:
Unless I missed it, I haven't heard anyone mention the BIGGEST problem with BasicMed...and that is you need a "real" doctor....an MD...to do it! It cannot be done by a Physician's Assistant or a Licensed FNP, etc..........Who apparently are good enough to prescribe meds and order all sorts of tests and do other exams...but not good enough for BasicMed. There are Doctor shortages everywhere....almost everyone in my area goes to a PA/FNP for routine stuff, and if they find anything (or you are about dead) they send you to an MD. Much easier to find an AME in my experience. YMMV.
Click to expand...
In your state a chiropractor is a licensed physician. I've known 3 pilots personally who got fouled up in the 3rd class nightmare because the AME "real" doctor screwed up the paperwork. Why take a chance losing your ticket for prolonged periods of time and the cost to get it back is stupid. Surely a pilot knows how to travel to another state if your state does not have this status.......No!, not a crock but the best thing to come to our hobby if you know how to use it.

 
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OK I realized my thread title invited this.
However, unless your experience of "no problem, my MD did it" was somewhere in So. Cal., and so pertinent to my ask...

@bkc3921, yes that's part of the problem. However the AOPA advice I found says a PA or FNP can 'assist'. So it seems as long as an MD will sign off on their work you are OK. In fact Carbon was fine with doing exactly that, they said, on the phone.
 
Just looked at the SoCAL RV group on Groups.io for Basic Med doctors.

Found:
12-04-2017 post
Dr. Ronald Phillipp
Dr. Tara Reid
2255 Lakewood Blvd
Long Beach

Kaiser in Chino Hills did with no problem

07-13-2018
Dr. Peter Choi with Kaiser in Chino

01-11-2020
Dr. Jan Mensink
2029 F St D7
Bakersfield

Dr. Weagley
San Clarita Valley

I did not repeat the name that I posted earlier in this thread.
 
My primary physician has done it but his exam and blood work seemed way more extensive then my prior class 3. Even after passing everything to his satisfaction he was reluctant to complete the paperwork.

I was referred to a retired physician who is also a pilot. We meet at the airport and he runs through the checklist signs me off and takes my money.

I heard Chiropractors can do Basic Med. I’ve called probably 1/2 dozen local to me and none of them are interested.

Maybe the walk-in emergency clinics will do them.

I hope you find someone.
 
Chkaharyer99 said:
I heard Chiropractors can do Basic Med. I’ve called probably 1/2 dozen local to me and none of them are interested.
Maybe the walk-in emergency clinics will do them.
I hope you find someone.
Click to expand...
Depends on the state. Chiropractors are "Licensed Physicians" in some states. Not in others. The requirement is that the Dr. must be a "State Licensed Physician".
 
Mel said:
Depends on the state. Chiropractors are "Licensed Physicians" in some states. Not in others. The requirement is that the Dr. must be a "State Licensed Physician".
Click to expand...
True, 33 states consider them State Licensed Physicians. I was lucky to find a PA who I've had for years, and his supervising MD signed off on my basic med, no charge.
 
The era of "private practice" is waning fast, and actually is almost over. Most primary care MD's/DO's these days work for corporations punching a clock. Their practice parameters are usually/sometimes set by their non-physician supervisory people, including whether or not they can do Basic Med exams. Most of these corporations are very risk-averse and usually (not always) are not inclined to let their employed physicians determine whether or not a given patient is medically fit to fly an airplane. Likewise, some malpractice carriers around the country prohibit Basic Med exams for physicians under their coverage. The FAA medical branch actually has employed some reasonably plausible arguments regarding Basic Med physician liability, and many physicians take that seriously enough to just say no to Basic Med. Most doctors are so busy that they don't "have" to do anything that even hints of being potentially problematic, especially in the liability arena.
 
MacCool said:
The era of "private practice" is waning fast, and actually is almost over. Most primary care MD's/DO's these days work for corporations punching a clock. Their practice parameters are usually/sometimes set by their non-physician supervisory people, including whether or not they can do Basic Med exams. Most of these corporations are very risk-averse and usually (not always) are not inclined to let their employed physicians determine whether or not a given patient is medically fit to fly an airplane. Likewise, some malpractice carriers around the country prohibit Basic Med exams for physicians under their coverage. The FAA medical branch actually has employed some reasonably plausible arguments regarding Basic Med physician liability, and many physicians take that seriously enough to just say no to Basic Med. Most doctors are so busy that they don't "have" to do anything that even hints of being potentially problematic, especially in the liability arena.
Click to expand...
From Becker's Physician Leadership
"Here are three major companies dominating physician employment:
CVS Health
CVS Health supports more than 40,000 physicians, pharmacists, nurses and nurse practitioners. The company has 1,100 MinuteClinic locations in 36 states and Washington, D.C., and through its deal with Oak Street Health, CVS Health has more than 130 primary care clinics.
HCA Healthcare
HCA Healthcare supports 38,000 physicians. The healthcare giant consists of 184 hospitals and about 2,000 sites of care, including surgery centers, freestanding emergency rooms, urgent care centers and physician clinics in 21 states and the United Kingdom.
Optum
With 90,000 physicians in its portfolio, UnitedHealth Group's Optum is the largest employer of physicians in the U.S. Optum has 2,200 primary and specialty care offices in 16 states."

The growing lack of physician autonomy and increasing bureaucratic demands of time is what led me to semi-retire and close my private solo practice in 2010. Up side much less stress and more time for airplanes. Downside, I really miss being able to have long term relationships with patients. Any competent FP or IM doctor is able to do a BasicMed exam. Its the perceived risk, hassle, and ignorance of the process that prevents it being done if the employer allows. We are in an era of factory medicine now,
 
Anyone know how insurance companies view Basic Med? Particularly for older pilots -- is there an advantage to having a 3rd class medical instead of going the Basic Med route?
 
CTCole said:
Anyone know how insurance companies view Basic Med? Particularly for older pilots -- is there an advantage to having a 3rd class medical instead of going the Basic Med route?
Click to expand...
Mine didn't seem to have an issue, Global Aerospace, 250k, RV-14, $ 1,778.00. 67, ~2,200 hrs., 1 mil liability, just a reference.
 
I've got a suggestion. I'm a doc and I strongly believe if you were to offer your doc, or your friends doc, that, if they want, you would be happy to give them a courtesy flight, some family if they want, around their home, town or vacation place, they would look upon you differently and likely say, to your request for an exam, "Yeah, of course. Why not."

Give it a try. It can't hurt. I'm sure one of the docs in your town would comply. The opener could be to deliver a box of donuts to their office and tell the receptionist, you've got a flight offer for the doc.
 
blaplante said:
I'm having a heck of a time trying to get a Basic Med exam.
Just went to a place that does DOT exams, etc. and after starting it they changed their mind and said no can do.

The AME's don't want to do it, only class 1, 2, 3.

Regrettably my PCP doesn't do any type of sports / DOT exams. Weird I know.

Basic Med had a lot of promise, but it isn't working out for me.

Anyone have a SoCal suggestion? Riverside, Orange, or San Diego county area?
Click to expand...
I've been dealing with the same issue on the military side. We haven't had manning to have a doctor in years so I'm always seen by a PA and they can't sign the paperwork. They do the exam for my work flight physical and then forward the results to the doctors at another base to sign my actual military medical, but I can't get the basic med paperwork forwarded and signed too. I can still technically fly with my military form 2992 but I'd like the basic med document since I went through the trouble of doing the CBT.
 
CTCole said:
Anyone know how insurance companies view Basic Med? Particularly for older pilots -- is there an advantage to having a 3rd class medical instead of going the Basic Med route?
Click to expand...
Which insurance companies? Underwriting decisions vary WIDELY from company to company.
 
I’ve never had any trouble finding a doc to do BasicMed, although obviously it’s been a problem for some. But I would rather spend MONTHS searching for a BasicMed doc than schedule a Third Class medical exam TOMORROW. It’s not even a close question. And I’ve got no health problems that would disqualify me from a Third Class.

If you think this is a crazy attitude, I’d wager you’ve never seen the FAA medical process misfire. If you haven’t seen it go off the rails, but you want to get a feel for the experience, I suggest reading The Trial or perhaps watching the movie Brazil.

Here’s some good advice: if you’re currently flying under an FAA medical, do the online course and get a doctor signoff for BasicMed anyway. That way, if you experience an issue that might snarl a Third Class, but is okay under BasicMed, you can just let the Third Class lapse and keep flying (except to Canada, etc….).

And this isn’t some sort of shady evasion of the rules, either. The simple fact is that “there are many medical conditions that are disqualifying for an FAA medical, but not for BasicMed.”

True, I’m not a doctor, and I don’t play one on TV. But there’s a great thread by a doctor on this subject here.
 
MacCool said:
The era of "private practice" is waning fast, and actually is almost over. Most primary care MD's/DO's these days work for corporations punching a clock. Their practice parameters are usually/sometimes set by their non-physician supervisory people, including whether or not they can do Basic Med exams. Most of these corporations are very risk-averse and usually (not always) are not inclined to let their employed physicians determine whether or not a given patient is medically fit to fly an airplane. Likewise, some malpractice carriers around the country prohibit Basic Med exams for physicians under their coverage. The FAA medical branch actually has employed some reasonably plausible arguments regarding Basic Med physician liability, and many physicians take that seriously enough to just say no to Basic Med. Most doctors are so busy that they don't "have" to do anything that even hints of being potentially problematic, especially in the liability arena.
Click to expand...
One problem is that when accidents occur, lawyers go looking for deep pockets. A solo (self employed) physician with a typical 500K malpractice policy doesn't have a deep enough "pocket" to attract the degree of legal interest a corporation does. In the first instance, it may not be worth the effort to try to "blame the doc" but in the second, why not? A sad commentary on how our tort system works. I wasn't aware of the FAA medical branch's liability discussions you mention, but I'm not sure I'd fully trust those arguments given the vested interest that group has in protecting the classic system. My own view is that if a physician follows the BasicMed rules to the letter - which is easy to do - and has competent representation, it would be very difficult to convince a jury of the required elements of a malpractice action against them (duty, breach of duty, damages/injury, causation). But to your point, many choose not to take what is perceived as "risk" or the choice is made for them..
 
I need to make a decision on this soon... my third class expires next year, but I turn 40 in September. I'm debating whether to get another third class before my birthday (so it's good for five more years) or try and find a basicmed doc. I'm not aware of anything that could even potentially foul up one more third class and (provided the same AME is still in business) my last one was basically just a vitals check and "turn your head and cough". I'd also like to go to Canada in the next couple years. But I've heard the horror stories and saw my dad have to deal with one (fortunately with a good outcome). Got two months to make a decision...

The whole process is messed up, especially for just flying little airplanes. The exam paperwork should start with something like a Miranda warning...
 
Since I've had heart disease since 1998, I've had several classes of Medical including 2nd class. My current cardiologist has had no problem after examining me to issue a fit to fly letter and so far no problems with basic med. As an aside, my primary just didn't want the liability I guess. And Oh yeah, I'm also type II diabetic and have sleep apnea...talk about challenges for an 84 year old...;)
 
blaplante,
Will you be going to Oshkosh? I know it's a long shot, but there is a somewhat local Dr here in my area that was/is an AME and is a very PRO BM doc. He actually just gave a talk about it at a recent EAA meeting here in northern MN. He does exams at the local airport and has been know to do them at various fly in events.
I believe he was doing them recently at the New Holstein Super Cub Flyin that takes place during Airventure.
If this is something you might be interested in, I can forward you his contact info.
Keith
 
I think your issues isn't that Basic Med is a crock as much as you just haven't found a doctor to do it for you. I renew it when the times comes up when I do my annual physical with my regular doctor. Eventually you'll find a doctor who does it then you'll see how better it all is.
 
blaplante said:
However, unless your experience of "no problem, my MD did it" was somewhere in So. Cal., and so pertinent to my ask...
Click to expand...
My MD did it, in SoCal. I use a Naval Hospital.

Nurse Practitioner read form, completed exam, got a Doc to sign. I took the online course that day and listed Doc’s info.

While my provider may not be an option for you, I think the “best practices” were effective:
Like Mike and Gary, I made it quick and easy for them to understand; I brought in a description of Basic Med, filled out and printed the Basic Med form before going in.
Like Dennis, I also offered to take the Doc, NP, staff up for a local flight.
(Next time I’ll bring donuts as well. )

Good luck!
 
Mel said:
The biggest advantage of BasicMed over 3rd class is that if you fail a 3rd class, you're in for a big, loooong, expensive "treat" with the FAA.

If you don't pass BasicMed, you and your Doctor simply work out a solution and you're good-to-go!
Click to expand...
Mel, I have type 2 diabetes and it’s well under control. I went to my family doctor for my check up and tried to get him to do my basic med while I was in the office. He wouldn’t do it because he said he doesn’t want to sign his name on anything associated with the FAA.
 
mturnerb said:
IBut to your point, many choose not to take what is perceived as "risk" or the choice is made for them..
Click to expand...
Doctors are risk averse. Plus...they are all busier than they want to be and have no compelling reason to do Basic Med exams. Add in even the hint of liability exposure, real or perceived and you have at least some explanation of the access issue.
 
After I moved away from the SF Bay Area, it took me a LOONG time to find a doc willing to do a BasicMed exam. So many docs get squirrelly and pull the eject handle when I mention any of the magic words "pilot" or "aviation" or "FAA". My BasicMed physical was due, and I still hadn't found one, so I just flew back to my old town and did the physical there. I did find one here who said he'd be willing to do it, but the proof will be in the pudding when he actually does it.
 
Doc Larry did my Basic Med September 2023. Don't remembr what it cost but wasn't any more than the Third Class

Larry Marshall
12517 Lakeshore Dr, Lakeside, CA 92040, USA
Ph: 6194433843

First Class, Second Class / Third Class, HIMS
 
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