OneTwoSierra
Well Known Member
Anyone know why Van's site says the 9 carries 75lbs of baggage but the 7 can carry 100? My 9 can carry 100 and stay in CG with a 0320 and 16lb. FP prop.
Van's Air Force
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baggage
- Thread starter OneTwoSierra
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alpinelakespilot2000
Well Known Member
It's all about weight and balance...
I asked Van's about this before purchasing because one place on their site indicated 75# and the other 100# for the 9/9a. I was really interested at that point because I wanted to make sure I could get two backpacks (at 35-40# each) plus a few odds and ends in the baggage compartment.
What Ken Scott told me was that the baggage compartments on the 7 and 9 can both handle the same weight. How much you could put in it would depend on which engine/prop combination you used. Because the 9's empennage is a little bigger and usually the engine smaller, it tends to have a more aft c.g. However, that is not always the case and the baggage limit of 75# would only apply if c.g. required it. 75# is apparently the worst-case scenario. I would suspect that a metal constant speed prop would give you the fwd. c.g. needed for the 100# (or close to it anyway). Has anyone done weight and balance calculations with various configurations to see what would need to be done to make sure that 100# stays in the desired c.g.?
If Van's no longer has that 100# listed at all, maybe something else changed in their thinking. (?)
I asked Van's about this before purchasing because one place on their site indicated 75# and the other 100# for the 9/9a. I was really interested at that point because I wanted to make sure I could get two backpacks (at 35-40# each) plus a few odds and ends in the baggage compartment.
What Ken Scott told me was that the baggage compartments on the 7 and 9 can both handle the same weight. How much you could put in it would depend on which engine/prop combination you used. Because the 9's empennage is a little bigger and usually the engine smaller, it tends to have a more aft c.g. However, that is not always the case and the baggage limit of 75# would only apply if c.g. required it. 75# is apparently the worst-case scenario. I would suspect that a metal constant speed prop would give you the fwd. c.g. needed for the 100# (or close to it anyway). Has anyone done weight and balance calculations with various configurations to see what would need to be done to make sure that 100# stays in the desired c.g.?
If Van's no longer has that 100# listed at all, maybe something else changed in their thinking. (?)
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OneTwoSierra
Well Known Member
As I stated earlier, I have a light (16 lb.) catto prop and I'm in CG. I'm in CG with 107 lbs and 370 lbs of passengers all the way to 2 gallons of fuel.
Baggage
Physically I know my 9A will hold a lot.. cuz my butt has spent a lot of time sitting in the baggage area.
That being said, with my Catto 3-blade w/ 4" prop extension I compute the following:
2 pax @ 175lb each + 36 gallons of fuel + 147lbs of baggage gives me an aft CG of 84.82, just inside the limit.
2 pax @ 175lb each + 0 gallons of fuel + 139lbs of baggage gives me an aft CG of 84.81, just inside the limit.
These are extreme cases and probably ones I would never encounter. My empty CG is 77.348845.
Physically I know my 9A will hold a lot.. cuz my butt has spent a lot of time sitting in the baggage area.
That being said, with my Catto 3-blade w/ 4" prop extension I compute the following:
2 pax @ 175lb each + 36 gallons of fuel + 147lbs of baggage gives me an aft CG of 84.82, just inside the limit.
2 pax @ 175lb each + 0 gallons of fuel + 139lbs of baggage gives me an aft CG of 84.81, just inside the limit.
These are extreme cases and probably ones I would never encounter. My empty CG is 77.348845.
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n2prise
Well Known Member
Baggage vs. weight and balance.
My RV-9A came out about 100 pounds over weight compared to Van's prototypes. Constant speed prop, stereo CD/Tape player, yada, yada, yada. The end result, When I took off for OSH last year, I had me (240 pounds) and my computer and a box of charts in the front seat beside me. The baggage area had tent, air mattress, chair, clothes, etc. The net was 138 pounds of stuff back there and no CG problems when I did the weight and balance with that load. It flew very well, except that I was right up near my gross weight on a hot day with full fuel when I left Chattanooga on July 24, 2005 headed for Oshkosh. [ http://www.n2prise.org/rv9a151.htm ] That was the longest takeoff roll I made up to that point in my flights -- 500 feet instead of 300 feet.
You guys are on the right track. Do the numbers and go for it. By the way, I was able to demonstrate to the AB-DAR that the weight and balance works up to 2000 pounds gross weight. I also posted two sets of V-speeds on the panel and in my POH. One set at Van's recommended gross weight, and a second set of V-speeds for the 2000 pound max gross weight limit.
Just for the record, my weight and balance is fine with two 250 pounders in the seats, full fuel (or minimum fuel), and 100 pounds of stuff behind the seats.
Jerry K. Thorne
RV-9A slider N2PZ
172.7 hours on the Hobbs
www.n2prise.org
My RV-9A came out about 100 pounds over weight compared to Van's prototypes. Constant speed prop, stereo CD/Tape player, yada, yada, yada. The end result, When I took off for OSH last year, I had me (240 pounds) and my computer and a box of charts in the front seat beside me. The baggage area had tent, air mattress, chair, clothes, etc. The net was 138 pounds of stuff back there and no CG problems when I did the weight and balance with that load. It flew very well, except that I was right up near my gross weight on a hot day with full fuel when I left Chattanooga on July 24, 2005 headed for Oshkosh. [ http://www.n2prise.org/rv9a151.htm ] That was the longest takeoff roll I made up to that point in my flights -- 500 feet instead of 300 feet.
You guys are on the right track. Do the numbers and go for it. By the way, I was able to demonstrate to the AB-DAR that the weight and balance works up to 2000 pounds gross weight. I also posted two sets of V-speeds on the panel and in my POH. One set at Van's recommended gross weight, and a second set of V-speeds for the 2000 pound max gross weight limit.
Just for the record, my weight and balance is fine with two 250 pounders in the seats, full fuel (or minimum fuel), and 100 pounds of stuff behind the seats.
Jerry K. Thorne
RV-9A slider N2PZ
172.7 hours on the Hobbs
www.n2prise.org
n2prise
Well Known Member
Experimental....
Experimental is the word... Since you are the "manufacturer", you do the weight and balance calculations just like the examples in the manual from Van's. It also helps that Van personally certified Jon Johanson's airplane to take off and fly at 36% over the gross weight of the normal 1,500 pound limit for the RV-4. Read this page on Van's web site for the story about his special RV-4 modifications, weight, etc. http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/jj-plane.htm
You can see where I talked about that on my page 165 when I took my final weight and balance measurements after my airplane was painted and the interior was fully installed. http://www.n2prise.org/rv9a165.htm
You also need to land gently with that full load aboard if you come down with plenty of fuel in the tanks. If you get transition training from Mike Seager as I did, you will learn that technique. You also ALWAYS taxi with FULL UP elevator, and roll out after landing with FULL UP elevator to minimize the weight on the nose wheel no matter what the load in the airplane.
Jerry K. Thorne
East Ridge, TN
RV-9A N2PZ
www.n2prise.org
Experimental is the word... Since you are the "manufacturer", you do the weight and balance calculations just like the examples in the manual from Van's. It also helps that Van personally certified Jon Johanson's airplane to take off and fly at 36% over the gross weight of the normal 1,500 pound limit for the RV-4. Read this page on Van's web site for the story about his special RV-4 modifications, weight, etc. http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/jj-plane.htm
You can see where I talked about that on my page 165 when I took my final weight and balance measurements after my airplane was painted and the interior was fully installed. http://www.n2prise.org/rv9a165.htm
You also need to land gently with that full load aboard if you come down with plenty of fuel in the tanks. If you get transition training from Mike Seager as I did, you will learn that technique. You also ALWAYS taxi with FULL UP elevator, and roll out after landing with FULL UP elevator to minimize the weight on the nose wheel no matter what the load in the airplane.
Jerry K. Thorne
East Ridge, TN
RV-9A N2PZ
www.n2prise.org
